How is your top

OldGuyFla · 04-11-2016, 09:32 AM

Klaus (TopHydraulics) Great info. here, thanks so much. I'm pretty sure this will be used many times & cause fewer headaches. Might even save some money along the way.

Dan

Lookup · 04-18-2016, 11:29 AM

I was able to open the top manually, thanks entirely Klaus and Top Hydraulics. Unfortunately, I didn't find the problem. More on that below.

Here's what I learned:

Before you can remove the deflector between the roll bars, you have to take the plastic trim pieces off the rolls bars. The front piece is just snapped on with annoying plastic clips most of which, if you're anything like me, you will probably break. Here's me pulling recklessly on the front piece:

The back half is held on by three screws that you can see in this picture, and a plastic clip in the bottom:

After you get the plastic trim pieces off, there is one nut and one bolt on the back of each side of the deflector. They are 10mm.

The inner cover that Klaus referred to is held by a bunch of plastic clips around the edge on the underside. You can see the clips in this photo taken from underneath the cover on top of the storage compartment lid:

After pulling several of the clips from the center, you can pull the cover back to get to the striker. I determined that it wasn't necessary to completely remove the cover, and after looking at it I'm not certain that you even can. But in hindsight, I wish I would have pulled more of the clips to get the liner further out of the way. In this photo you can see me pulling the liner back to reveal the two bolts on the striker:

At first it looks like you will have to use an open end wrench on those bolts (10mm again). But there are holes over the bolts covered by adhesive tabs. Remove the tabs and you can wedge a small ratchet under the rear window and get the socket on these bolts. It's worth it because they turn hard all the way out.

So now I've removed the striker:

And I'm ready to pull the release cables in the trunk:

I do that, and then turn the bolt in the front top to release the top:

Now I am able to move the top, but the storage compartment lid will not open. I pulled on the cables again, but they wouldn't pull any further. When I was about ready to throw in the towel, I figured I might as well start the car and push the open button. Sure enough, the top and storage compartment proceeded to open. I still have no idea why pulling the cables didn't release the storage cover.

The bad news is, I couldn't find the source of what I had previously assumed was leaking hydraulic fluid. I didn't see any chafed wires or other visible problems. Here is the area where the oil was as best as I could get photos:

I couldn't find oil anywhere in the area.

Strangely enough, after all of this the top actually functioned perfectly several times. I continued to play around with it and it occasionally would stop in the process of closing, but would always open (unlike before I started this process). Now it at least closed properly, the alarm is off, and I can use my trunk. The fact that the top started working at least intermittently after I moved it around makes me lean back in the direction of an electrical problem. I still don't know what to make of the mystery oil. I suspected that operating the top would cause more oil to appear, but it didn't.

I hope this is helpful to others. And if anyone has any tips on what else I can do to start narrowing down the problem, I would greatly appreciate any advice.

Thanks again to Klaus and Top Hydraulics for getting me this far!

OldGuyFla · 04-20-2016, 10:58 AM

Great post, I have been wondering how those plastic covers come off because I want to paint the silver inserts on the backs the same color as my seats. You have helped a lot, thanks. Keep us updated on how things are going. Good luck!

jp4z · 04-21-2016, 05:13 AM

Klaus,

This is great information, thanks for starting it.
How long do your rebuilt hydraulic pumps last after install?

thanks,
jp4z

TopHydraulics · 04-21-2016, 11:55 AM

Hello jp4z,

thanks for the detailed progress report with pics. I particularly like the comments on removing the striker bolts. Everything's easy once you know how to do it, and this is going to help a lot of fellow 370Z convertible owners!

One question: you posted one picture where the plug is removed from the headliner near the rear view mirror, showing access to the top lock for manual opening. I cannot quite see what size wrench you need - is it a 6-mm Allen, or a T40 Torx, or larger?

I will address the leak and what to do next in a follow-on post with pics. There may be a few hours delay, because the moderators still have to approve my posts with pictures in them while I am a fairly new member...

Klaus

TopHydraulics · 04-21-2016, 12:29 PM

Okay, there is no gushing hydraulic leak, but you have some oily fluid collecting at the trim in the upper rear corner of your driver's door. This means you have a slow leak from the hydraulic system. Rather likely, this is what caused the malfunction in the first place, because the pump was sucking air and wasn't able to build enough pressure to complete the closing function, which made the rear bow lock get stuck. I am assuming that the leak is from the left secondary cylinder.

In any case, you have to find the leak, because it won't go away and it will only get worse. You don't want the whole headliner soaked in smelly hydraulic fluid, and you don't want it to drip on your seats.

The hydraulic cylinders typically fail first where you wouldn't expect it: on the bottom, with the fluid coming out of a seam near the mounting pin. That's why you couldn't see the leak; it's only the lower bottom of the cylinder that is wet right now. There are seven seals inside these cylinders, and they will all fail with time. Some of these seals are made of polyurethane (PU), which decays particularly fast when exposed to heat or to the wrong fluid. Top Hydraulics replaces and upgrades the PU seals with Viton, which has a practically unlimited shelf life. We also improve the size, geometry and material of the piston seal, rod seal and wiper seal. The port seals (where the hydraulic hoses go in) get upgraded to Viton, as well. That's why we are confident that our product will outlast practically any car that it gets put into; we expect a service life of 30-50 years.

Here is how to remove the cylinder:
1) Create access to the lower mounting pin on the cylinder. Maybe you will have to take a trim piece off.
[2) Document the process for the rest of us with some good pics... ]
3) Remove the mounting pin from the cylinder's clevis (the fork).
4) Retract the cylinder's shaft (that pushes fluid back into the pump, and it eliminates the risk of you damaging the shaft with an accidentally slipping tool when you remove the hydraulic line clips).
5) Remove the hydraulic line clips per attached illustration, then pull out the hoses.
6) Remove the travel sensor - it is clipped into the cylinder's rail.
7) Remove the bottom mounting pin.

Klaus

jp4z · 04-21-2016, 05:13 PM

[QUOTE=TopHydraulics;3464883]Hello jp4z,

Klaus,

I didn't post the pictures. I asked how long your rebuilt hydraulic pumps last.

jp4z

TopHydraulics · 04-21-2016, 06:58 PM

[QUOTE=jp4z;3465106]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopHydraulics

Hello jp4z,

Klaus,

I didn't post the pictures. I asked how long your rebuilt hydraulic pumps last.

jp4z

jp4z,

thanks for following up. Indeed, it was Lookup who posted the pictures, and you are the one who asked about the longevity of rebuilt pumps. Sorry about the mix-up, jp4Z and Lookup!

We rebuild lots of convertible top hydraulic pumps, on a daily basis, and I know that we are doing an excellent job (I hate to sound boastful, but I talk about technical issues the way I see them). Obviously, I cannot predict exactly how long our rebuilt pumps last, because there are a lot of factors coming into play. We put in far better seals and we undo some design flaws. Under normal circumstances, I would assume that our rebuilt pumps should be good for some 30-50 years. The pump we ship to you will perform better than a brand new one.

We offer core exchange, by the way, where we ship a pump from our inventory first. Same price as the rebuild service where you send in your pump first, but there is a refundable deposit added. For more details, see Nissan 370Z Hydraulic Pump Rebuild/Upgrade

By the way, folks, please do not try to disassemble the pump yourself to see if you can "fix it" - this would likely end up in disaster, and we would probably have to charge you extra.

Access to the pump is not very difficult; removal and replacement is a DIY job if you have a little patience. The same is true for any repair to the 370Z hydraulic top system - let's all together create some easy-to-follow DIYs with good pictures on this forum, for many years of use in the 370Z community.

Take a look at the illustrations below. The pump is under the soft top storage compartment. With the top up and the storage compartment open, remove the plastic tabs that hold the storage compartment liner in place. With the liner removed, you will find the pump in a grey-ish foam cover. Unscrew the T27 Torx bolt that holds the u-shaped piece of sheet metal in place (the mounting bracket), bend up the mounting bracket, pull or carefully cut the tape that joins holds the foam casing halves together, and take out the pump. Now you only have to unplug the pump from the wiring harness and disconnect the hydraulic lines (hoses). Disconnecting the hydraulic lines requires only that you unbolt the manifold plate on top, which holds all the hydraulic lines, and then pull up a little on each hydraulic line individually. The hydraulic lines will stay within the manifold plate - they are retained by small snap rings, and they will not get mixed up.

I hope that answers your question...

Klaus

chad.mcvay350 · 04-22-2016, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopHydraulics

Okay, here is a first draft for a DIY to manually unlock and open the 370Z roadster top. This may be the toughest part of the whole DIY diagnostic and repair, but I hear that it is not that bad once you know what you are doing. Thus, an improved DIY for manual unlocking would be great, and a video would be awesome! We need more photos and comments in order to create a really good DIY for this important step. Lookup, I hope that you can help us out with this.

To manually unlock the top, you need to unbolt the striker from the rear bow (the section with the rear window in it). It is located centrally under the end of the rear bow frame. This striker is the part that hooks into the rear bow lock, which is mounted under the tonneau cover tonneau cover = storage compartment cover). I will describe the process of striker removal below, but first some pics...

Striker unbolted from rear bow, but still inside the rear bow lock:

Striker removed from rear bow lock - see the striker, its two mounting bolts, and the clamp it is screwed into:

Striker as normally mounted on the rear bow:

Rear bow lock as mounted under the soft top storage (tonneau) cover:

Rear bow lock striker removal:
1) Remove storage lid deflector. That's the piece between the roll bars. Simply remove four mounting nuts and bolts. See attached pdf. Would appreciate comments and photos.
2) Remove "soft top cover inner": lift up "cover inner" marked as item 1 in attached pdf, and remove three inner clips marked as item 2. Would be nice to find a more descriptive name, and comments and photos would be helpful.
3) Remove both rear lock striker bolts (marked as item 3 in attached pdf) from the service hole. Would appreciate comments and photos.

Lift rear bow and front bow simultaneously. Now you can unlock the storage cover manually as described in your owner's manual (attaching and pulling on the cables in the trunk - would be nice to get some pics of this). Let me know when and if you need help.

Now you can start discovery, which we will get into in a follow-on post. You will have to attach and lock the striker and the rear bow lock again if you want to drive the car with the top up (or keep the rear bow lock removed and attach a bungee for temporary use).

Hope this helps, and looking forward to your comments,

Klaus

GLAD MY PHOTOS HELPED! It was an easy job, hardest part was turning the two bolts, just took me a while.

Lookup · 04-22-2016, 12:04 PM

The bolt in the headliner to unlock the top is an Allen wrench. The car has one in the trunk by the jack, so I didn't actually notice what size it was. If someone's is missing, it's definitely a common size that I would expect to find in any Allen set.

TopHydraulics · 04-23-2016, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lookup

The bolt in the headliner to unlock the top is an Allen wrench. The car has one in the trunk by the jack, so I didn't actually notice what size it was. If someone's is missing, it's definitely a common size that I would expect to find in any Allen set.

Mercedes and a few others use a 6-mm Allen wrench, Saab uses 8mm. If anyone cannot find their factory provided Allen wrench next to the jack, do NOT use an imperial size, or you might round out the hex head in the latch.

TopHydraulics · 04-23-2016, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chad.mcvay350

GLAD MY PHOTOS HELPED! It was an easy job, hardest part was turning the two bolts, just took me a while.

Chad, thanks again for letting me use your photos, and thanks for confirming that manually unlocking the 370Z top was easy. The two bolts on the striker must have threadlocker on them, which is why Lookup remarked:

"At first it looks like you will have to use an open end wrench on those bolts (10mm again). But there are holes over the bolts covered by adhesive tabs. Remove the tabs and you can wedge a small ratchet under the rear window and get the socket on these bolts. It's worth it because they turn hard all the way out."

Klaus

chad.mcvay350 · 04-25-2016, 09:13 AM

I just used the wrench the whole time, took a few min, but came out!

OldGuyFla · 04-26-2016, 11:22 AM

Since we are talking about troubleshooting the hydraulics in the tops I thought maybe some people will also need to know where to find info. on troubleshooting the electrical.

Here is some information as to where to find the electrical part of the Z for anyone that might not know.

First click on this link Index of /FSM/370Z/Coupe (it says for a coupe but the roadster is covered also)

Then select the model year of your car. You will see a list of (pdf) files, find the file (fwd.pdf) & save it. This is a quick reference file so you know what each file pertains to.

For the wiring diagrams it is (pg.pdf) save it also.

Hope this helps.

ZETIRED · 06-10-2016, 11:00 PM

On March 7th, 2016, I noticed that there was slight tearing on the passenger side on the inside of the headliner at the 2nd bow. Called Nissan, have extended warranty and let them know about the problem. Took car in to Dealer, Tonkin Nissan in Wilsonville, Oregon. It took 3 weeks to get the issue resolved and they agreed to pay for it. Nissan specialist suggested that a felt strip between the bow and the liner would keep it from repeating. Original cost quoted to me by Dealer was $2220, and originally they said it would not be covered by E-Warranty. My deductible was $50, but apparently I had to pay for the Felt strips so it cost me $272.05. I wonder where they get their felt from, but I think they charged me for the work to put the felt in?! Anyway very pleased that they owed up to the problem. Took a total of just under a month to get my Z back. Just in time for good weather coming up. The only thing I objected to is that every time Nissan called me to give me updates they made it sound like they were trying to decide whether or not give me financial assistance, and not really admitting that top was self-destructing. Car only has 37500 miles on it and that should not have happened.
Zetired
2010 GT Black Cherry Roadster

04-18-2016, 11:29 AM	#47 (permalink)
Lookup Base Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4 Drives: 2010 370Z Rep Power: 10	Update I was able to open the top manually, thanks entirely Klaus and Top Hydraulics. Unfortunately, I didn't find the problem. More on that below. Here's what I learned: Before you can remove the deflector between the roll bars, you have to take the plastic trim pieces off the rolls bars. The front piece is just snapped on with annoying plastic clips most of which, if you're anything like me, you will probably break. Here's me pulling recklessly on the front piece: The back half is held on by three screws that you can see in this picture, and a plastic clip in the bottom: After you get the plastic trim pieces off, there is one nut and one bolt on the back of each side of the deflector. They are 10mm. The inner cover that Klaus referred to is held by a bunch of plastic clips around the edge on the underside. You can see the clips in this photo taken from underneath the cover on top of the storage compartment lid: After pulling several of the clips from the center, you can pull the cover back to get to the striker. I determined that it wasn't necessary to completely remove the cover, and after looking at it I'm not certain that you even can. But in hindsight, I wish I would have pulled more of the clips to get the liner further out of the way. In this photo you can see me pulling the liner back to reveal the two bolts on the striker: At first it looks like you will have to use an open end wrench on those bolts (10mm again). But there are holes over the bolts covered by adhesive tabs. Remove the tabs and you can wedge a small ratchet under the rear window and get the socket on these bolts. It's worth it because they turn hard all the way out. So now I've removed the striker: And I'm ready to pull the release cables in the trunk: I do that, and then turn the bolt in the front top to release the top: Now I am able to move the top, but the storage compartment lid will not open. I pulled on the cables again, but they wouldn't pull any further. When I was about ready to throw in the towel, I figured I might as well start the car and push the open button. Sure enough, the top and storage compartment proceeded to open. I still have no idea why pulling the cables didn't release the storage cover. The bad news is, I couldn't find the source of what I had previously assumed was leaking hydraulic fluid. I didn't see any chafed wires or other visible problems. Here is the area where the oil was as best as I could get photos: I couldn't find oil anywhere in the area. Strangely enough, after all of this the top actually functioned perfectly several times. I continued to play around with it and it occasionally would stop in the process of closing, but would always open (unlike before I started this process). Now it at least closed properly, the alarm is off, and I can use my trunk. The fact that the top started working at least intermittently after I moved it around makes me lean back in the direction of an electrical problem. I still don't know what to make of the mystery oil. I suspected that operating the top would cause more oil to appear, but it didn't. I hope this is helpful to others. And if anyone has any tips on what else I can do to start narrowing down the problem, I would greatly appreciate any advice. Thanks again to Klaus and Top Hydraulics for getting me this far! TopHydraulics and WI_Hedgehog like this.

04-20-2016, 10:58 AM	#48 (permalink)
OldGuyFla A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Indian Lake Estates Fl Posts: 1,049 Drives: 14 370Z TS Roadster Rep Power: 19127	Great post, I have been wondering how those plastic covers come off because I want to paint the silver inserts on the backs the same color as my seats. You have helped a lot, thanks. Keep us updated on how things are going. Good luck! Last edited by OldGuyFla; 04-20-2016 at 11:07 AM.

04-21-2016, 05:13 AM	#49 (permalink)
jp4z Base Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NC Posts: 7 Drives: 11 Roadster Silver Rep Power: 13	Hydraulic Pump Klaus, This is great information, thanks for starting it. How long do your rebuilt hydraulic pumps last after install? thanks, jp4z

04-21-2016, 11:55 AM	#50 (permalink)
TopHydraulics Base Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Beautiful Oregon Coast Posts: 18 Drives: Roadsters and Verts Rep Power: 696	inspecting the cylinder for leaks Hello jp4z, thanks for the detailed progress report with pics. I particularly like the comments on removing the striker bolts. Everything's easy once you know how to do it, and this is going to help a lot of fellow 370Z convertible owners! One question: you posted one picture where the plug is removed from the headliner near the rear view mirror, showing access to the top lock for manual opening. I cannot quite see what size wrench you need - is it a 6-mm Allen, or a T40 Torx, or larger? I will address the leak and what to do next in a follow-on post with pics. There may be a few hours delay, because the moderators still have to approve my posts with pictures in them while I am a fairly new member... Klaus __________________ Top Hydraulics, Inc -- Upgrading/rebuilding convertible top hydraulic cylinders and pumps for Nissan 370Z roadsters and over 30 other brands. Manufacturing new, superior hydraulic hoses for convertible tops. http://www.tophydraulicsinc.com/en/73-nissan-370z-09-13

04-26-2016, 11:22 AM	#59 (permalink)
OldGuyFla A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Indian Lake Estates Fl Posts: 1,049 Drives: 14 370Z TS Roadster Rep Power: 19127	Since we are talking about troubleshooting the hydraulics in the tops I thought maybe some people will also need to know where to find info. on troubleshooting the electrical. Here is some information as to where to find the electrical part of the Z for anyone that might not know. First click on this link Index of /FSM/370Z/Coupe (it says for a coupe but the roadster is covered also) Then select the model year of your car. You will see a list of (pdf) files, find the file (fwd.pdf) & save it. This is a quick reference file so you know what each file pertains to. For the wiring diagrams it is (pg.pdf) save it also. Hope this helps. Last edited by OldGuyFla; 04-26-2016 at 11:25 AM.

04-11-2016, 09:32 AM	#46 (permalink)
OldGuyFla A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Indian Lake Estates Fl Posts: 1,049 Drives: 14 370Z TS Roadster Rep Power: 19127	Klaus (TopHydraulics) Great info. here, thanks so much. I'm pretty sure this will be used many times & cause fewer headaches. Might even save some money along the way. Dan

04-21-2016, 05:13 PM	#52 (permalink)
jp4z Base Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NC Posts: 7 Drives: 11 Roadster Silver Rep Power: 13	[QUOTE=TopHydraulics;3464883]Hello jp4z, Klaus, I didn't post the pictures. I asked how long your rebuilt hydraulic pumps last. jp4z

04-22-2016, 12:04 PM	#55 (permalink)
Lookup Base Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4 Drives: 2010 370Z Rep Power: 10	The bolt in the headliner to unlock the top is an Allen wrench. The car has one in the trunk by the jack, so I didn't actually notice what size it was. If someone's is missing, it's definitely a common size that I would expect to find in any Allen set.

04-25-2016, 09:13 AM	#58 (permalink)
chad.mcvay350 Base Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: NB Canada Posts: 19 Drives: 10 370z roadster Rep Power: 9	I just used the wrench the whole time, took a few min, but came out!

06-10-2016, 11:00 PM	#60 (permalink)
ZETIRED Base Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Tigard, OR. Posts: 14 Drives: 10' 370Z RDST. BC,7A Rep Power: 15	On March 7th, 2016, I noticed that there was slight tearing on the passenger side on the inside of the headliner at the 2nd bow. Called Nissan, have extended warranty and let them know about the problem. Took car in to Dealer, Tonkin Nissan in Wilsonville, Oregon. It took 3 weeks to get the issue resolved and they agreed to pay for it. Nissan specialist suggested that a felt strip between the bow and the liner would keep it from repeating. Original cost quoted to me by Dealer was $2220, and originally they said it would not be covered by E-Warranty. My deductible was $50, but apparently I had to pay for the Felt strips so it cost me $272.05. I wonder where they get their felt from, but I think they charged me for the work to put the felt in?! Anyway very pleased that they owed up to the problem. Took a total of just under a month to get my Z back. Just in time for good weather coming up. The only thing I objected to is that every time Nissan called me to give me updates they made it sound like they were trying to decide whether or not give me financial assistance, and not really admitting that top was self-destructing. Car only has 37500 miles on it and that should not have happened. Zetired 2010 GT Black Cherry Roadster OldGuyFla likes this. Last edited by ZETIRED; 06-11-2016 at 01:47 PM.