370z rates nearly last on CR's owner satisfaction survey

Jordo!

At the end of the day, the problem is that it's apparently not easy to make a FR (lets leave FF's and AWD's out of it for now) sporty car that is attractive, fast, handles and brakes well, and is affordable to what passes for the new middle class (i.e., dubious upward mobility potential at a time when stagnation or even downward mobility is commonplace...).

The FR-S, Z, MX-5, and the latest iteration of the Mustang in particular are all variations on those themes -- yes the Mustang is a "pony car", but the very concept of a pony car is based on Ford (and GM) attempting to fit all three of the aforementioned attributes into one vehicle, even though a pony's emphasis has historically been on muscle over agility.

Quite a few of the "OG" gang sold their Z's and bought Mustangs (at least to the best of my knowledge...), hence my earlier comment a few pages back, while comparisons to the FR-S are rooted in the fact that there are simply very, very few affordable cars (say, under 60K) aimed at being truly "sporty".

In the US, muscle is always a big selling point; in much of the rest of the world, agility tends to be better appreciated (exception: Australia?)

Whether or not anyone sticks with the Z for its next generation will come down to how well Nissan crams the key "sporty" attributes into their car at a manageable price. Otherwise, the power junkies will skew towards muscle, the cone dodgers will look for more lithe cars, and the folks with more money will just buy a more expensive car.

All in all, though, Nissan did a very good job with the Z34, and their (rumored) plans for the Z35 all sound pretty reasonable, at least to me.

__________________
Enjoy it. Destroy it.

Zteven

Yeah it doesn't have the greatest mod potential but cmon look at that list! I meanReally ?? credibility = 0

__________________

njobe89

i wouldn't exactly call 15k for a turbo cheap... unless you're making six figures a year

__________________
2 plus 2 times 2 = ? ... hint, it's not 8

Stillen CBE, Stillen Gen 3, TP's, Uprev tuned - 324whp/264tq

edconline

But you're leaving out something just as important in the sports car market - people buying for looks. Let's take the 2015 sports car market. Yes there are cars faster than the Z in the segment. There are cars that handle better. There are cars that are cheaper and faster and handle if not better, damn close. But nothing that does all that and looks near as good. Given the options right now, I would still buy the Z over anything sub 100k.

That's what I never understood about everyone that 'upgraded' to the 5.0. Yeah it's faster, cheaper, cheaper to make faster and handles well, but have you seen it? Yes people that can buy more expensive cars often will, but sometimes it isn't enough. Like I said, the next price bracket I am interested in is around 150k mark (V10 R8). So even though I could buy say a 75-80k car, I'm still a long way from being able to afford anything that interests me as a follow up to the Z.



I said relative to changing up a class of car (from the Z's category to say the 911/GTR category)
You could have a car that's faster than the GTR, looks better and cost you 1/3 of what trading in the Z on a GTR did. No, 15k for FI isn't cheap compared to buying orange juice.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

__________________
View Journal
Audio Build

njobe89

i haven't seen one that's faster then a GTR yet.

__________________
2 plus 2 times 2 = ? ... hint, it's not 8

Stillen CBE, Stillen Gen 3, TP's, Uprev tuned - 324whp/264tq

Jordo!

I agree with all of that -- and I think it's fair to add that, ironically, actual performance is frequently trumped by perceived performance (i.e., more bhp doesn't always mean faster; lighter/tighter turning radius doesn't necessarily mean better in the slalom).

As to looks, although I suggested leaving the FF's and AWD's out of the debate, the very fact that 4-door rally cars -- vehicles that have nothing in common with the aesthetics of a "classic" sports car -- were big players in the sporty car segment speaks volumes on the range of body styles that can be construed as appropriate for a "sports car".

On the other hand, all over the world, sleek FF's are much beloved as sporty (if not "sports") cars, but a lot less so in the US.

Then there's the weird obsession (mainly in the US...) with the physical size of the car. Little cars tend to be associated with less manliness, (which is pretty stupid, but people also tend to like watching heavyweights pummel each other in the ring over watching welterweights). Pony cars are cross shopped by consumers looking for a sporty car simply on the basis of size (a lot of guys don't want a "girly" little car), and, again, ironically, not in regard to how the size helps or hamstrings actual performance.

On that note, in the US in particular, all things being equal, nothing looks more sporty than a high horsepower rating for the car you drive.

How many people have posted about how much they would like the Z35 to have a V8 or turbo? It ain't for looks.

__________________
Enjoy it. Destroy it.

mishuko

i mean everyone is just on this turbo band wagon now?

sure it's sweet... but it seems no one likes NA cars for some odd reason.

njobe89

i like N/A more, but the Z can't squeeze out enough power without going FI.

__________________
2 plus 2 times 2 = ? ... hint, it's not 8

Stillen CBE, Stillen Gen 3, TP's, Uprev tuned - 324whp/264tq

JARblue

There are a few people out there with more than the stock GT-R hp numbers. If you're talking drag strip times, then that's comparing RWD to AWD and not exactly apples to apples.

__________________

njobe89

just because you achieve the GTR hp numbers doesn't mean it's going to handle like one. that's all i'm saying.

__________________
2 plus 2 times 2 = ? ... hint, it's not 8

Stillen CBE, Stillen Gen 3, TP's, Uprev tuned - 324whp/264tq

JARblue

It will never handle like one. Is anyone arguing that? But if someone finally gets 800-1000 hp, you better believe a proper build will beat a stock GT-R on the drag strip.

__________________

jpkirk

There are those of us that are not HP junkies. I feel like the HP and torque with the Z is probably at the top of what I would want. OK, maybe a little more, but I don't need 425 HP. I like the Z for its appearance and the feeling I get when I sit behind the wheel. When I test drove a Z in 2012, I was sold on the level of performance. After the test drive, I got out and walked around it. Yea, I was sold on the look as well.

Would I buy another? I'm not sure. The market has changed. Would I look at a Mustang or Camaro? Sure, they have changed but ultimately, I don't think I would get one. They are both a 2+2 Coupe and I am more interested in an actual sports car and sitting lower to the ground. Of course the Toyobaru is also a 2+2 so I would probably look at it and ultimately not get that either. However, I really like the look of the 2016 MX-5.



I would certainly test drive one of these. I did not test drive the previous model because I completely despised the look of the front end. This looks sweet and has very nice lines, top up and down. And if you want more, historically it has been very easy to find for the MX-5.

__________________

intake | exhaust | wheels | tires | suspension ... um ... stock, do speed stickers count?
intake | exhaust | TE37 SL | RE-11 | suspension ... um ... do speed stickers count? Signature under construction

njobe89

ok, i'm sure that's going to be way more then 15k to get it to 800-1000 and yes it would beat a stock gtr. however, then one can argue that you are building up a z to 800-1000 that it's only fair to build up a gtr and once again the z can't compete.

don't get me wrong i like my z, but it's not that cheap to mod one to get some numbers out of it. for it's price range in the low 30s brand new i think it's amazing.

__________________
2 plus 2 times 2 = ? ... hint, it's not 8

Stillen CBE, Stillen Gen 3, TP's, Uprev tuned - 324whp/264tq

JARblue

Well it may cost a bit more than $15K to get that kind of power, but it certainly won't cost the $50K+ price difference between a new 370Z and new GT-R at their lowest price points (and currently it is closer to a $70K difference). So I could buy two new 370Z, put $20K into each, and have two vehicles that are at or above GT-R levels for the price of a new GT-R. That's all I'm trying to point out. And no it's not fair to build up the GT-R if you're comparing price points.

__________________

njobe89

you can build hondas to keep up with stock a stock gtr, but it will never be a gtr. also, you could buy 2 new 370z's and put 20k in each if the price of a brand new z was 30k. i've seen gtr's here in GA go for 55-60k used of course.

additionally, i think that the people pushing 600+ hp in their z's have spent way more then 20k.

i never compared the price points between a gtr and a z. what i stated was that it's not cheap to build up a z as compared to some other cars.

__________________
2 plus 2 times 2 = ? ... hint, it's not 8

Stillen CBE, Stillen Gen 3, TP's, Uprev tuned - 324whp/264tq