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Supply & Demand..
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#4 (permalink) |
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I'm real curious to know why you (the OP) are stating as fact that the 370Z aftermarket parts vendors are overcharging? What's the basis for that claim?
EDIT: Looks like Robert_Nash beat me to the punch! |
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#6 (permalink) | |
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I'd like to buy ribeye steak for $0.30/lb...how dare the supermarket charge me $6.98/lb; who do they think they are anyway! ![]()
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#7 (permalink) |
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I understand where the OP is coming from. The AM parts for my 335i were insane. They did come down once multiple vendors started coming out with competitve products. Until then you will have to pay to play.
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#8 (permalink) |
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*posted using my mobile device*
PLEASE, PLEASE...STOP referencing/comparing the nissan world, OR ANY other manufactures world to that of the mighty american mustang! Thats all I have heard out of your mouth is mustang this, and my friends-friends-uncles-brothers-cousin is this or that in the mustang world. Everyone knows things are typically much cheaper in the world of american stangs/camaros/etc etc - NO ONE CARES. However, I must say, I did believe the whole 'if it takes this much metal/r&d for this car, what are they doing to make it so special for this car that makes it that expensive'. It frusterated me to no end, but then you just accept the fact that the more expensive a car is, USUALLY parts get more expensive too. It sucks... But, I have to ask, have you ever been in or around anything other than a mustang?? For someone who claims they've been doing this (mod's) for 20+ years - you seem really surprised/naive to find that things are more expensive for other manufactures, specifically as the price of the car goes up?!? I mean, the guy who owns a 911 GT3...Do you think he cares to pay 10k for a titanium exhaust after he has already spent 100k+ on the car? It scales man, it scales... Am I missing something??
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#9 (permalink) | |
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As long as US consumers keep just handing over rediculous amounts of cash to the carpetbagging manufacturers these rediculous prices are going to continue skyrocketing upward. And to those who cite that it is all a matter of "supply and demand" then to those folks I say you only have 1/2 of the intended understanding of that principle. The law of supply and demand is a two way street. It's function isn't just to favor the manufacturer which the US consumers apparently only seem to understand with the senseless overpaying they do. It also works the other way as well.....the consumer doesn't have to wait until he / she is broke to stop buying product. The principle can also be exercised by consumers refusing to buy the overpriced product so that the manufacturers inventory stockpiles as a result of stagnant sales. If folks wouldn't just jump at every new product put on the market the moment it hits the shelf at the MSRP price-point and rather instead just learn to be patient and ignore the stuff, that crap will stockpile real quick and drive the prices way down. But no...BMOC ego and the obssessive compulsive pathetic infantile need to always one-up the next guy is the only thing that is the focus of the American consumer anymore....nothing like the proverbial selling of your soul to the Great Imposter. |
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#10 (permalink) | |
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This forum is a cool place if ur just trying to learn from other peoples mistakes on the 1st year model or if u need tips on performing a mod from one of the "real seasoned tuners". These guys are bringing this hybrid mustang/bimmer mentality into the import tuner culture. I c ur point n only 5% will. Lol Its this one sided mentality on this forum that is the tip of the iceberg of american close mindedness. This is why the world hates us. Arrogance and the constant need to belittle the next man to feel better about oneself. Instead of seeing ur point. Ur naive. Oh u expect too much. Like how dumb is that. If u look at the full spectrum of wat this man is saying. He's right. Jeeeez! N he's not stating opinions he stating facts. With an opinion as a sub context. Not vice versa like the rest of u guys. |
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#11 (permalink) |
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paying 2 k for an exhaust for me is to much why? because its just 6-7 feet of pipes welded together. im sure it doesnt cost more then 10% of the price to manufacture the part.
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#12 (permalink) | ||
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Absolutely. I have seen it done over and over. Quote:
Where I see your viewpoint on this matter I can assure you it costs significantly more than you think to manufacture such a part. The margins are nowhere near that range. Take in to consideration R&D, material costs, pruduction costs, and shipping. |
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#13 (permalink) | |
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Remove R&D time/money from the picture and you're left with materials and know-how. Most anyone can get the materials for a car project, but the know-how to put it together isn't rattling around in everyone's head, nor is the experience in doing so. You have to weigh the cost of an item/service against what's valuable to you. With a Helm's manual, I could take apart an engine and replace a ring... but it's worth significantly more to me to pay someone $2k to do it than spend the next 2 weeks solid in the driveway taking the time to do it myself. I can figure out how, and the materials/tools are easy enough to get, but my lack of experience in taking apart more than one or two engines in my lifetime means I'm going to be sloooow at it. Sure, an exhaust is just a few bent/welded pipes, but it took time/money for someone to measure everything, test it, go through several prototypes, etc. They have to be a good welder if you want it to last (particularly stainless/titanium)... this comes from experience and not overnight. They have to have the right tools to bend it and weld it... this is usually money spent over many years to put together a full workshop. Companies manufacture items to make a profit, not just enough so they can pay their employees an hourly wage. Figure two people working full-time on an exhaust, and let's say it takes two weeks for them to get something they're happy with (probably quite short, in reality). That's 160 hours worth of work and even at a paltry $10/hr that's $1,600 in the hole right there. Add in cost of only two prototypes worth of material... say $400. You're ready to start producing, but you're $2k down. Let's say hand production costs 6 hours (@ $10/hr) and $200 in materials... that catback exhaust you just bought for $320 shipped cost $260 to produce and $30 to ship. The owner sits back and enjoys his high-end profit of $30/exhaust. Woo hoo! He can now afford to purchase a couple six-packs of Corona and sit in his hammock for another hour. But what about automation, you say? Fine, they automate it and cut the production time per exhaust down to 1 hour. Who paid for the multi-million $ robot welder that put it together? As the company owner, now you're hoping you can sell in quantity to make those small per-exhaust profits add up to pay for the capital equipment you're now leasing to lower the production times and raise your profit margin. And so on, ad infinitum... I've been a business owner for over 7 years now and everything above is the [/u]simplified[/u] version. A while back I purchased a $30k laser engraving/cutting system with the knowledge it was not going to pay itself back immediately. Clients who knew I had it now expected me to work for less profit because they assumed I would make it up in quantity. Its a viscous cycle. One guy asked me to give him one of my LED lighting designs because "It's only a bunch of LEDs and those are dirt cheap." I replied with "Fine... if it's just a bunch of dirt cheap LEDs with nothing spent on R&D, then go design it yourself! don't forget to le me know how that turned out for you..." But don't think that all items are cheap to manufacture simply because the components are inexpensive. Yes, charging $10k for a Lamborghini's exhaust may seem hugely expensive, but how much time/energy/money went into its development for a market that may sell 100 total? Sure, the profit margin is still higher for that exhaust than for a Neon's exhaust, but the risk was greater, too... what if only 50 people decided to buy instead of the projected 100? You're out some serious cash, particularly if you haven't paid off the R&D or capitol equipment yet.
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#14 (permalink) | |
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#15 (permalink) |
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No, you're right. The more expensive the car, the more owners are willing/able to pay for parts. However, because someone is willing/able to pay for something, it alone does not justify an inflated price. Just because I understand, it doesn't mean I agree. I think paying 5k for a piece of pipe is the most ridiculous.
As far as the Mustang thing goes, I agree, but I'm keeping myself out of this one. |
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