Nismo or boss ?

Red__Zed · 05-28-2013, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caustic

The whole live axle vs IRS is a ridiculous debate. Billy Johnson is right from a technical standpoint. But he is also speaking from a professional standpoint, which most of are not.

The main difference between a live (stick, solid, or whatever you want to call it) vs IRS is grip and consistency. When a wheel connected to a live axle hits a bump, both wheels are affected in terrible ways. It completely throws off the handling to all but the best of drivers.

IRS is a benefit when a wheel hits a bump, the opposing wheel is still settled, the handling characteristics on the opposing wheel haven't changed. This creates consistency and predictability for handling in the majority of conditions.

The point being is that when you see Mustangs closing in on M3 lap times, everyone points it out as the Mustang being as fast and as good as the M3. But the reality is these those lap times are close because professional drivers have the ability to correct for the Mustangs weaknesses.

You put weekend warrior track day drivers in those two cars, the driver in the M3 will consistently outperform the Mustang driver by a large amount. The Mustang driver will have their hands full every time they clip an apex and roll over rumble strips.

Live axle technology is good for just one thing, price. If there were little difference between live and IRS, why does every high end race car have IRS?

The type of bump that is big enough to upset the wheel on the other end of the stick will also wreak havoc on an IRS system.

For recreational use, the biggest downer is the lack of rear camber. You have to do all you dialing in via the front wheels, and the rear is basically a fixed quantity.

Your claim about the average joe being faster in the m3 is interesting.

2011 BMW M3 Coupe vs. 2011 Ford Mustang GT Comparison - Motor Trend

Drivers 2011 BMW M3 2011 Mustang GT
JOE 92.07 sec 91.52 sec
PRO 87.67 sec 87.76 sec

The major benefits to independent rear isn't so much isolation as it is adjustability. It's not an inherent property of a multi-link system either--it requires quite a bit of time to get right, and most commercial vehicles never get it finished...the A curve should look familiar to any serious 370z drivers

The IRS is a much better system--it offers less unsprung weight and a wide range of adjustability that race teams are able to take advantage of. The mustang will do well when it gets one, but to pretend the car isn't capable because of it is laughable.

m4a1mustang · 05-28-2013, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

The IRS is a much better system--it offers less unsprung weight and a wide range of adjustability that race teams are able to take advantage of. The mustang will do well when it gets one, but to pretend the car isn't capable because of it is laughable.

This is it in a nutshell. My angle has never been to say that solid axles are better, only that they aren't as bad as many lead on.

Caustic · 05-28-2013, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

...but to pretend the car isn't capable because of it is laughable.

No one is claiming the Mustang isn't capable because it doesn't have IRS. My post was to point out the claim that a live axle is nearly as good as IRS is laughable. You can certainly say the Mustang is less capable because of it.

I didn't go into all the other benefits that IRS gets over a live axle because it was unnecessary to illustrate the point.

m4a1mustang · 05-28-2013, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caustic

No one is claiming the Mustang isn't capable because it doesn't have IRS. My post was to point out the claim that a live axle is nearly as good as IRS is laughable.

I didn't go into all the other benefits that IRS gets over a live axle because it was unnecessary to illustrate the point.

If you hang around long enough, people do. That's the only reason we bring it up.

I think we all know that a perfectly designed IRS system will be far better than a perfectly designed live axle... but show me a perfectly designed IRS in this price range.

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