Nismo or boss ?

StangerGT · 05-28-2013, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Driver is everything.

BUT... forums are for bench/magazine racing.

What's funny is so many people here argue so hard about cars (lets say 5.0 and Z) that are within a second or two of each other on track, but if you put them on track in said cars they would probably get passed by some track pro in a Miata.

There was a stock old GTI at my last HDPE... and he was beating everyone...

I dont think the majority of people who argue this stuff even plan on going out and pushing it to any noticable potential.

red2010z · 05-28-2013, 07:21 AM

I wanted to be that different type. Nobody in my little town had one at the time. But they all had Mustang/Camero.

People don't tend to turn heads for the American cars they see everybody multiple times a day. But with the Z it seems everyone is curious.

m4a1mustang · 05-28-2013, 07:56 AM

Anyways, back to the OP, I just realized you've already got your NISMO. Since you've only had it for 3 months... keep it!

m4a1mustang · 05-28-2013, 08:12 AM

Haven't tracked it. I don't have a Mustang anymore though. 2013 "Dat Blue Doe" 370 now.

/Angelo350Z/ · 05-28-2013, 08:15 AM

What do you know, turns out we have the same car. High five.

m4a1mustang · 05-28-2013, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by /Angelo350Z/

What do you know, turns out we have the same car. High five.

Best color ever!

Caustic · 05-28-2013, 10:17 AM

The whole live axle vs IRS is a ridiculous debate. Billy Johnson is right from a technical standpoint. But he is also speaking from a professional standpoint, which most of are not.

The main difference between a live (stick, solid, or whatever you want to call it) vs IRS is grip and consistency. When a wheel connected to a live axle hits a bump, both wheels are affected in terrible ways. It completely throws off the handling to all but the best of drivers.

IRS is a benefit when a wheel hits a bump, the opposing wheel is still settled, the handling characteristics on the opposing wheel haven't changed. This creates consistency and predictability for handling in the majority of conditions.

The point being is that when you see Mustangs closing in on M3 lap times, everyone points it out as the Mustang being as fast and as good as the M3. But the reality is these those lap times are close because professional drivers have the ability to correct for the Mustangs weaknesses.

You put weekend warrior track day drivers in those two cars, the driver in the M3 will consistently outperform the Mustang driver by a large amount. The Mustang driver will have their hands full every time they clip an apex and roll over rumble strips.

Live axle technology is good for just one thing, price. If there were little difference between live and IRS, why does every high end race car have IRS?

/Angelo350Z/ · 05-28-2013, 10:33 AM

I've ran my 350Z on the Nurburgring more than a hundred times. Honestly, there's no way a car with a solid axle will be as quick as something with independent rear suspension, same weight, similar suspension modifications, and driver skill. Still, I wanted to know what m4a1mustang had to say about the Mustang. I never drove a car with a solid axle on the Nordschleife, but I have on the Autobahn. Honestly, it's really not the same. The elevation changes and entry speed on the Nurburgring will definitely cause a problem for a stock Mustang, or any other car with a stick axle. Not all race tracks are flat.

m4a1mustang · 05-28-2013, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by /Angelo350Z/

I've ran my 350Z on the Nurburgring more than a hundred times. Honestly, there's no way a car with a solid axle will be as quick as something with independent rear suspension, same weight, similar suspension modifications, and driver skill. Still, I wanted to know what m4a1mustang had to say about the Mustang. I never drove a car with a solid axle on the Nordschleife, but I have on the Autobahn. Honestly, it's really not the same. The elevation changes and entry speed on the Nurburgring will definitely cause a problem for a stock Mustang, or any other car with a stick axle. Not all race tracks are flat.

I don't think it's necessarily a solid axle thing. It's more geometry and the overall setup. The total package.

UNKNOWN_370 · 05-28-2013, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caustic

The whole live axle vs IRS is a ridiculous debate. Billy Johnson is right from a technical standpoint. But he is also speaking from a professional standpoint, which most of are not.

The main difference between a live (stick, solid, or whatever you want to call it) vs IRS is grip and consistency. When a wheel connected to a live axle hits a bump, both wheels are affected in terrible ways. It completely throws off the handling to all but the best of drivers.

IRS is a benefit when a wheel hits a bump, the opposing wheel is still settled, the handling characteristics on the opposing wheel haven't changed. This creates consistency and predictability for handling in the majority of conditions.

The point being is that when you see Mustangs closing in on M3 lap times, everyone points it out as the Mustang being as fast and as good as the M3. But the reality is these those lap times are close because professional drivers have the ability to correct for the Mustangs weaknesses.

You put weekend warrior track day drivers in those two cars, the driver in the M3 will consistently outperform the Mustang driver by a large amount. The Mustang driver will have their hands full every time they clip an apex and roll over rumble strips.

Live axle technology is good for just one thing, price. If there were little difference between live and IRS, why does every high end race car have IRS?

Drivers correcting cars weaknesses???? You make too much sense Caustic. Don't you know mustangs are just superior. period. NO EXPLANATION NEEDED.

m4a1mustang · 05-28-2013, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

Drivers correcting cars weaknesses???? You make too much sense Caustic. Don't you know mustangs are just superior. period. NO EXPLANATION NEEDED.

Only the fanboys sound like that. Or just insecure Z owners that think every 5.0 owner is out to prove their car is superior.

UNKNOWN_370 · 05-28-2013, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Only the fanboys sound like that. Or just insecure Z owners that think every 5.0 owner is out to prove their car is superior.

Naw... problem here is... people act like the 5.0 is the only other sports car in the world. What's fanboy is fanboy's consistently protecting their favorite cars rep against the 5.0 or vice versa.

In the end of the day. All these cars perform well on the street. Where most azzholes are driving these cars anyway. Everyone is always bringing a different position on their favorite sports car to override the next car. At the end of the day, a weakness in a sports car is a weakness. none of us drive ferrari's. All of y'all need to get over yourselves. Fvck Z's and Fvck Mvstangs. Neither car is perfect. Just enjoy your cars and stop trying to burst each others bubbles.

Ps caustic made hella sense when he talked about professional drivers. A cars weaknesses can be overcome by a driver with enough seat time. It's a point that's always negated in the forum. That rule applies to any car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

If you are ever in DC let me know. I want to buy your azz a beer!

As long as it's a sealed bottle and not a mugg!!!!

Tazicon · 05-28-2013, 01:21 PM

I pulled up to a stop light on the way to work this morning..........., 2 Cameros, 3 Mustangs and one Challenger.

To me that speaks volumes as I see tons of all 3 of those cars. They must be alright in someones book. I personally like cars you may not even see once a week........that is unless you are my neighbor.

Red__Zed · 05-28-2013, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caustic

The whole live axle vs IRS is a ridiculous debate. Billy Johnson is right from a technical standpoint. But he is also speaking from a professional standpoint, which most of are not.

The main difference between a live (stick, solid, or whatever you want to call it) vs IRS is grip and consistency. When a wheel connected to a live axle hits a bump, both wheels are affected in terrible ways. It completely throws off the handling to all but the best of drivers.

IRS is a benefit when a wheel hits a bump, the opposing wheel is still settled, the handling characteristics on the opposing wheel haven't changed. This creates consistency and predictability for handling in the majority of conditions.

The point being is that when you see Mustangs closing in on M3 lap times, everyone points it out as the Mustang being as fast and as good as the M3. But the reality is these those lap times are close because professional drivers have the ability to correct for the Mustangs weaknesses.

You put weekend warrior track day drivers in those two cars, the driver in the M3 will consistently outperform the Mustang driver by a large amount. The Mustang driver will have their hands full every time they clip an apex and roll over rumble strips.

Live axle technology is good for just one thing, price. If there were little difference between live and IRS, why does every high end race car have IRS?

The type of bump that is big enough to upset the wheel on the other end of the stick will also wreak havoc on an IRS system.

For recreational use, the biggest downer is the lack of rear camber. You have to do all you dialing in via the front wheels, and the rear is basically a fixed quantity.

Your claim about the average joe being faster in the m3 is interesting.

2011 BMW M3 Coupe vs. 2011 Ford Mustang GT Comparison - Motor Trend

Drivers 2011 BMW M3 2011 Mustang GT
JOE 92.07 sec 91.52 sec
PRO 87.67 sec 87.76 sec

The major benefits to independent rear isn't so much isolation as it is adjustability. It's not an inherent property of a multi-link system either--it requires quite a bit of time to get right, and most commercial vehicles never get it finished...the A curve should look familiar to any serious 370z drivers

The IRS is a much better system--it offers less unsprung weight and a wide range of adjustability that race teams are able to take advantage of. The mustang will do well when it gets one, but to pretend the car isn't capable because of it is laughable.

m4a1mustang · 05-28-2013, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

The IRS is a much better system--it offers less unsprung weight and a wide range of adjustability that race teams are able to take advantage of. The mustang will do well when it gets one, but to pretend the car isn't capable because of it is laughable.

This is it in a nutshell. My angle has never been to say that solid axles are better, only that they aren't as bad as many lead on.

05-28-2013, 07:21 AM	#2 (permalink)
red2010z Track Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Texas/North Carolina Age: 40 Posts: 587 Drives: '10 Red B/S/M Rep Power: 14	I wanted to be that different type. Nobody in my little town had one at the time. But they all had Mustang/Camero. People don't tend to turn heads for the American cars they see everybody multiple times a day. But with the Z it seems everyone is curious. mults and 2xtreme1 like this. __________________ AGENCY K&N SWIFT CSF EVO-R VOSSEN MICHELIN Z1 JVC ZENCLOSURE JLW3 JVC

05-28-2013, 07:56 AM	#3 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6963	Anyways, back to the OP, I just realized you've already got your NISMO. Since you've only had it for 3 months... keep it! __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

05-28-2013, 08:12 AM	#4 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6963	Haven't tracked it. I don't have a Mustang anymore though. 2013 "Dat Blue Doe" 370 now. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

05-28-2013, 08:15 AM	#5 (permalink)
/Angelo350Z/ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Germany Posts: 2,230 Drives: Z34 \| MK7 \| F82 Rep Power: 3661	What do you know, turns out we have the same car. High five. __________________ 2013 MB NISSAN 370Z SPORT

05-28-2013, 10:33 AM	#8 (permalink)
/Angelo350Z/ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Germany Posts: 2,230 Drives: Z34 \| MK7 \| F82 Rep Power: 3661	I've ran my 350Z on the Nurburgring more than a hundred times. Honestly, there's no way a car with a solid axle will be as quick as something with independent rear suspension, same weight, similar suspension modifications, and driver skill. Still, I wanted to know what m4a1mustang had to say about the Mustang. I never drove a car with a solid axle on the Nordschleife, but I have on the Autobahn. Honestly, it's really not the same. The elevation changes and entry speed on the Nurburgring will definitely cause a problem for a stock Mustang, or any other car with a stick axle. Not all race tracks are flat. __________________ 2013 MB NISSAN 370Z SPORT

05-28-2013, 10:17 AM	#7 (permalink)
Caustic Base Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 243 Drives: '02 Acura NSX Rep Power: 14	The whole live axle vs IRS is a ridiculous debate. Billy Johnson is right from a technical standpoint. But he is also speaking from a professional standpoint, which most of are not. The main difference between a live (stick, solid, or whatever you want to call it) vs IRS is grip and consistency. When a wheel connected to a live axle hits a bump, both wheels are affected in terrible ways. It completely throws off the handling to all but the best of drivers. IRS is a benefit when a wheel hits a bump, the opposing wheel is still settled, the handling characteristics on the opposing wheel haven't changed. This creates consistency and predictability for handling in the majority of conditions. The point being is that when you see Mustangs closing in on M3 lap times, everyone points it out as the Mustang being as fast and as good as the M3. But the reality is these those lap times are close because professional drivers have the ability to correct for the Mustangs weaknesses. You put weekend warrior track day drivers in those two cars, the driver in the M3 will consistently outperform the Mustang driver by a large amount. The Mustang driver will have their hands full every time they clip an apex and roll over rumble strips. Live axle technology is good for just one thing, price. If there were little difference between live and IRS, why does every high end race car have IRS?

05-28-2013, 01:21 PM	#13 (permalink)
Tazicon Track Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Vegas Baby! Posts: 773 Drives: German/British cars Rep Power: 15	I pulled up to a stop light on the way to work this morning..........., 2 Cameros, 3 Mustangs and one Challenger. To me that speaks volumes as I see tons of all 3 of those cars. They must be alright in someones book. I personally like cars you may not even see once a week........that is unless you are my neighbor.

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