Diamond in the rough.

damian_mb · 10-18-2013, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

The WRX brakes get air on them. The Z's brakes don't work because of a styling decision.

Even with that, they are too soft. It has too much give, if you know what I mean. The Z stops on a dime.

Red__Zed · 10-18-2013, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damian_mb

Even with that, they are too soft. It has too much give, if you know what I mean. The Z stops on a dime.

At least the first couple of times

SurfDog · 10-18-2013, 12:43 PM

[QUOTE:
a light weight flywheel
Same cost as heavy one

better sway
Same cost as weak one (and not addressed on my post)

25 rolls oil-cooler
Now included and only a hundred buck or two from factory would not effect cost much

LSD
As part of sport package either don't offer a crap one or charge enough to make it worthwhile. Most ppl who need LSD have to buy two. (One installed and one upgraded)

NISMO ECU
free. just use the Nismo flash. RCU Data is free once developed

better clutch
Point taken. Though I don't know how expensive it would be to put in a well designed clutch pedal. I doubt it would cost much outside of design cost. (Which cost almost nothing to implement.). (I'd be happy to send them mine to copy for free. Lol)

better CSC
Point taken. But failure prone OEM cost more in long run than decent OEM would.

PSS tires
Never addressed in my post.

more light weight material
Not addressed in my post

better audio
Not addressed

better quality components.
Not requested or demanded

I think you are just mad that I have insulted your car (I her it I love mine too). That was not my intention tho this is just meant to be a quick reference of easy fixes for new Z owners. Things almost everyone eventually addresses. Don't be mad it's just info for shining up a cool car to make it great.

SurfDog · 10-18-2013, 01:04 PM

[QUOTE=SurfDog;2532399][QUOTE:
a light weight flywheel
Same cost as heavy one

better sway
Same cost as weak one (and not addressed on my post)

25 rolls oil-cooler
Now included and only a hundred buck or two from factory would not effect cost much

LSD
As part of sport package either don't offer a crap one or charge enough to make it worthwhile. Most ppl who need LSD have to buy two. (One installed and one upgraded)

NISMO ECU
free. just use the Nismo flash. RCU Data is free once developed

better clutch
Point taken. Though I don't know how expensive it would be to put in a well designed clutch pedal. I doubt it would cost much outside of design cost. (Which cost almost nothing to implement.). (I'd be happy to send them mine to copy for free. Lol)

better CSC
Point taken. But failure prone OEM cost more in long run than decent OEM would.

PSS tires
Never addressed in my post.

more light weight material
Not addressed in my post

better audio
Not addressed

better quality components.
Not requested or demanded

I think ppl are getting mad thinking that I have insulted their car (I understand, I love mine too). That was not my intention! This is just meant to be a quick reference of easy fixes for new Z owners. Things almost everyone eventually addresses. Don't be mad it's just info for shining up a cool car to make it great.

I'm not going to defend this position anymore. If you love your Z as is then please by all means leave it be!!! If you want a list of easy fixes that make this car more reliable and in my opinion nicer to drive please feel free to implement some of the aforementioned mods. They are provided as a service to those who don't lurk the forum as much as I have.

If I can save one member from being stranded by fuel starvation or a broken CSC or SLC I'll consider this post to have been a service to my fellow Z lovers.

It has never been my intent to insult anybody's car or mod choices, and so I can stop worrying about bruised egos, I am now officially stepping out of this thread.

Chuck33079 · 10-18-2013, 01:01 PM

A heavy flywheel makes the car easier to drive. A lightweight flywheel is a pain in the *** to drive with and it's noisy. Nissan didnt design the car for enthusiasts, they designed it for a larger market.

And part of the sales pitch for the Nismo is the increased power. Why would they tune all zs to that level?

Magic Bus · 10-18-2013, 02:45 PM

SurfDog, I understood and appreciate your post as I did a couple of those fixes myself. IMO, nothing wrong with discussing some of the imperfections on an already good product to make it even better. Maybe our discussions will be overheard by Nissan and the next Z will be even better

Minsu · 10-18-2013, 03:06 PM

^^^^
Whatttt who asked for 200bhp!

VCuomo · 10-19-2013, 02:17 PM

I thought I'd comment on the issues below based on my experience with my first-year (2009) sport-touring 370Z that I've owned (since new) for over 4 and a half years:

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurfDog

I consider the Z to be a good car with great potential. My question is what mods MUST be done to fix the factory design defects that make this car mediocre when it could be great.

Below is a list of what I believe to be the basics (or key weaknesses if you will) That MUST be addressed in every 370Z. What Key weaknesses have I missed.

1. Steering lock (duh)
-Needs the steering lock fuse pulled/or voluntary recall at a minimum (duh)
I pulled the fuse - took about 30 minutes.

2. no oil cooler
- unforgivable defect but easily retrofitted. (I used stillen 25 row kit)
I, and I suspect most Z owners, don't track the car, so this has never been a problem for me.

3. Horrible clutch feel on 6mt
- many solutions from removing the stupid assist spring to a full clutch replace. I went full on with a JWT, but do we all agree the OEM clutch sucks donkey balls and should be considered a must fix or is it just me???
I love my AT, but I suspect this is mostly an issue of just a matter of getting used to the feel of the MT.

4. Failure prone CSC.
- I did mine when puling apart tyranny to put in JWT. Is it worth swapping before failure?
Again, I have an AT, but this problem does suck for MT owners.

5. Massive 25 lb Flywheel.
-Is this a poor designby Nissan? I think so!!! I put in a much lighter JWT flywheel and did not notice increase in vibration, but did notice much better throttle response.
Eh, to me this is just "one of those things" that you do to get that last 5% of performance - I wouldn't expect that as factory-standard (I mean, shoot, Nissan could put in a better air intake system instead of making us purchase and install an after-market one, right?).

6. TUNE!
- why don't they all come engine tuned to NISMO specs. Why do I have to put it up on a dyno (4-600 bucks) to get the same tune a nismo has stock??? That's just stupid marketing bs IMHO. It would cost Nissan nothing to flash all EDCs with the nismo data no?
Because it's one of the differentiators that makes a NISMO different from a non-NISMO. Nothing more, and nothing less, than that. If you want a NISMO tune, buy a NISMO (or pay to have your non-NISMO tuned to NISMO specs). There's nothing wrong with what Nissan did.

7. Horrible road noise.
-From day one it has been criticized for road noise by everyone from R&T to my wife. I know sound-proffing is heavy (for you track bubbas), but a little engineering effort to help buffer the howl is definitely needed if you DD (I put some dynamat in key spots, but it still screams on some surfaces)
I've never had an issue with this, and I drive on SoCal roads.

8. The "sport" VLSD. (let alone the base "open" one!!)
-this thing is terrible. A real locking 1.5 or full 2 way (or at least a helical gear type) is a must unless you only bought the car for looks in which case this thread is wasted on you.
I bet most Z owners don't track their car; I don't, so this isn't an issue for me.

9. hatch springs
-I mean come ON Nissan
Yeah, this one's stupid, but no big deal. I've had different springs (the ones specified in the TSB) installed in my hatch and after a year the hatch stopped releasing. But all it takes is a second button press and then the hatch releases - not a big deal.

10. unnecessary Hatch weight
- so stupid that some have and some dont, even the factory kinda addresses this by only putting them in like half the cars.
Feh, not an issue for a DD. It's normal for trackers to do all kinds of things to reduce weight.

I realize this is not a full wish list of things we would all like to do, more a list of the things Nissan should have done at the factory.

Although awesome, I did not include things like:
HFC/CBE
Twin turbo or SC
better sways
better Stereo (though I almost did)
Pilot super sport tires
...Because they are mod/improvements not really design flaw fixes.

So what have I missed. what do you guys think is really broken or just poorly done?

In summary, for a few thousand bucks you can turn a pretty, though unreliable turd into a "real" sports car capable of holding its own against other "real" sports cars.

What have I missed??

There are really just two things that need to be addressed: The steering lock issue (this has been fixed in later model years) and the CSC failures. Other than that, there's nothing that's poorly done or really broken. For a track car, I would expect to spend a few thousand to upgrade brakes, add an oil cooler, etc., so even for someone who purchases a Z intending to track it, I would say there's nothing else poorly done or really broken (it's a great foundation to ugrade). YMMV, of course!

Read T · 10-19-2013, 04:44 PM

The base stereo is fine by me, better than other cars I've owned
The road noise is because there are huge wheels right behind your back
I've never had any problems with fuel starvation and about every tank I get to --- miles remaining
Heavy flywheel probably makes the car easier to drive for most people, or is a bandaid for what I agree is horrible clutch feel.
Most people who buy the car will never even know what an LSD does so from a company standpoint it doesn't really matter to put in a better one. That said the S15 which ended production in 2001 had a helical R200.

I would add that after 1 year, the paint bubbling off of a car is pretty ****-tastic.
I've never had a car before with electronic throttle or traction control. I think both of those suck and could be revised. I want to go WOT when I put my foot all the way down.
Agree on the oil cooler, sitting in traffic and hitting 250* is stupid.

scope22 · 09-26-2014, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Read T

The base stereo is fine by me, better than other cars I've owned
The road noise is because there are huge wheels right behind your back
I've never had any problems with fuel starvation and about every tank I get to --- miles remaining
Heavy flywheel probably makes the car easier to drive for most people, or is a bandaid for what I agree is horrible clutch feel.
Most people who buy the car will never even know what an LSD does so from a company standpoint it doesn't really matter to put in a better one. That said the S15 which ended production in 2001 had a helical R200.

I would add that after 1 year, the paint bubbling off of a car is pretty ****-tastic.
I've never had a car before with electronic throttle or traction control. I think both of those suck and could be revised. I want to go WOT when I put my foot all the way down.
Agree on the oil cooler, sitting in traffic and hitting 250* is stupid.

How is better LSD going to improve driving experience? better take offs?

SurfDog · 09-26-2014, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scope22

How is better LSD going to improve driving experience? better take offs?

If you ever have "power slid" your Z (either on wet road or just hammering your tires on a dry one) you will notice you have a very hard time predicting when your back end is going to "break loose", and when it does, it does so almost violently. My previous car was a 94 Miata, and I loved drifting and sliding it around in wet conditions. The Z was no fun at all. The Miata (unbeknownst to me, had a good LSD)

Enter the Quaife LSD.

Now my "drifts" are both predictable ,(not dependent on hugely variable power transfer from different temperatures of diff oil) AND more importantly CONTROLLABLE. I drift a bit in the snow and rain, but more importantly it happens if I get throttle happy at the track. The Quaife has saved me from any number of trips into the dirt.

Now when I begin to power slide, the back end goes out smoothly and controllably and comes back (with a slight throttle lift) the same way.

Its just plain fun.

I chose Quaife (helical gear style) over other LSDs due to low maintenance requirements (none really) and handling characteristics under normal use (I mostly DD my Z)

LSD is recommended (by me lol) if:

1. You plan to track. (I'd say almost mandatory)

2. you run in the wet and don't like spinning out when you push her a bit hard into a turn.

3. you don't like the feeling of the traction control/VDC (nanny) pulling power every time you aggressively turn and simultaneously accelerate. LSD vectors power to your better gripping rear wheel to avoid the spins which activate the "nanny"

4. You occasionally like to push into a drift for fun (note: for best results remember to turn off the VDC. Okay mods I'll say it... ONLY AT THE TRACK

)

scope22 · 09-28-2014, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurfDog

If you ever have "power slid" your Z (either on wet road or just hammering your tires on a dry one) you will notice you have a very hard time predicting when your back end is going to "break loose", and when it does, it does so almost violently. My previous car was a 94 Miata, and I loved drifting and sliding it around in wet conditions. The Z was no fun at all. The Miata (unbeknownst to me, had a good LSD)

Enter the Quaife LSD.

Now my "drifts" are both predictable ,(not dependent on hugely variable power transfer from different temperatures of diff oil) AND more importantly CONTROLLABLE. I drift a bit in the snow and rain, but more importantly it happens if I get throttle happy at the track. The Quaife has saved me from any number of trips into the dirt.

Now when I begin to power slide, the back end goes out smoothly and controllably and comes back (with a slight throttle lift) the same way.

Its just plain fun.

I chose Quaife (helical gear style) over other LSDs due to low maintenance requirements (none really) and handling characteristics under normal use (I mostly DD my Z)

LSD is recommended (by me lol) if:

1. You plan to track. (I'd say almost mandatory)

2. you run in the wet and don't like spinning out when you push her a bit hard into a turn.

3. you don't like the feeling of the traction control/VDC (nanny) pulling power every time you aggressively turn and simultaneously accelerate. LSD vectors power to your better gripping rear wheel to avoid the spins which activate the "nanny"

4. You occasionally like to push into a drift for fun (note: for best results remember to turn off the VDC. Okay mods I'll say it... ONLY AT THE TRACK

)

Thanks for explaining this, i used to drive Tran Ams with limited slip diff and i loved the control of drifting, i could spin the wheel just the right amount, with 370 its all or nothing and unpredictable....i guess i'm upgra0ding to Quaife, is this what you have? http://www.quaifeamerica.com/qdf10l.html

Gregor12 · 10-20-2013, 03:05 AM

comparing to my 2012 wrx you guys should be happy lol every time I drove the car i was just waiting for it to **** a piston.

the Z is a sports car. its not supposed to be quite.

the absence of an oil cooler hasn't been an issue for me and never had fuel starvation leading to power loss and ive pushed it pretty hard on 1/4 of a tank.

tune seems awesome to me... no hick ups and smooth power band.. my wrx would misfire all the time. threw its first code at 26 miles on the odometer

everything else seems great to me also. best bang for the buck in my opinion. but then again i bought mine used with 22000 miles lol

SurfDog · 09-25-2014, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregor12

comparing to my 2012 wrx you guys should be happy lol every time I drove the car i was just waiting for it to **** a piston.

the Z is a sports car. its not supposed to be quite.

the absence of an oil cooler hasn't been an issue for me and never had fuel starvation leading to power loss and ive pushed it pretty hard on 1/4 of a tank.

tune seems awesome to me... no hick ups and smooth power band.. my wrx would misfire all the time. threw its first code at 26 miles on the odometer

everything else seems great to me also. best bang for the buck in my opinion. but then again i bought mine used with 22000 miles lol

Well, my experience has been a bit different from that.

I get fuel starve at over half a tank every time I hit the track (if I don't constantly top off.). That experience makes me very conservative turning long right hand on ramps.

I run with some stock 370s at the track and they get 3-4 laps tops in summer conditions before the over temp their oil and have to pit for an hour or so to cool. My 25 row cooler keeps me at about 240 when pushing hard. (Not too bad))

I wear earplugs when DDing my Z because I don't want to go deaf. (I flew helicopters for the USMC, so I know dangerous noise levels when I experience them). If the Z were a commercial vehicle, OSHA would definitely require hearing protection. This is no big deal really, but I don't really bring many passengers in the Z due to limited ability to talk. Actually I should bring the wife in the Z more. It would probably enhance the experience!

DavidZ370 · 09-25-2014, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurfDog

Well, my experience has been a bit different from that.

I get fuel starve at over half a tank every time I hit the track (if I don't constantly top off.). That experience makes me very conservative turning long right hand on ramps.

I run with some stock 370s at the track and they get 3-4 laps tops in summer conditions before the over temp their oil and have to pit for an hour or so to cool. My 25 row cooler keeps me at about 240 when pushing hard. (Not too bad))

I wear earplugs when DDing my Z because I don't want to go deaf. (I flew helicopters for the USMC, so I know dangerous noise levels when I experience them). If the Z were a commercial vehicle, OSHA would definitely require hearing protection. This is no big deal really, but I don't really bring many passengers in the Z due to limited ability to talk. Actually I should bring the wife in the Z more. It would probably enhance the experience!

Sell the car, then hit the weights

10-18-2013, 12:43 PM	#3 (permalink)
SurfDog A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2012 Location: Colorado (9000 feet) Age: 58 Posts: 1,796 Drives: 09 6mt, 13 Sequoia, Rep Power: 15750	[QUOTE: a light weight flywheel Same cost as heavy one better sway Same cost as weak one (and not addressed on my post) 25 rolls oil-cooler Now included and only a hundred buck or two from factory would not effect cost much LSD As part of sport package either don't offer a crap one or charge enough to make it worthwhile. Most ppl who need LSD have to buy two. (One installed and one upgraded) NISMO ECU free. just use the Nismo flash. RCU Data is free once developed better clutch Point taken. Though I don't know how expensive it would be to put in a well designed clutch pedal. I doubt it would cost much outside of design cost. (Which cost almost nothing to implement.). (I'd be happy to send them mine to copy for free. Lol) better CSC Point taken. But failure prone OEM cost more in long run than decent OEM would. PSS tires Never addressed in my post. more light weight material Not addressed in my post better audio Not addressed better quality components. Not requested or demanded I think you are just mad that I have insulted your car (I her it I love mine too). That was not my intention tho this is just meant to be a quick reference of easy fixes for new Z owners. Things almost everyone eventually addresses. Don't be mad it's just info for shining up a cool car to make it great. __________________ 09 6spd Berk CBE, JWT cams, ZSpeed CSC, Stillen (25 row oil, brake cooling, sways, gen3 CAI), Passport (9500ci), Quaife LSD, Z1 400 hp kit, ss lines, pads, rotors, clutch etc, Phunk's pan and fuel starve fix Last edited by SurfDog; 10-18-2013 at 12:46 PM.

10-18-2013, 01:04 PM	#4 (permalink)
SurfDog A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2012 Location: Colorado (9000 feet) Age: 58 Posts: 1,796 Drives: 09 6mt, 13 Sequoia, Rep Power: 15750	[QUOTE=SurfDog;2532399][QUOTE: a light weight flywheel Same cost as heavy one better sway Same cost as weak one (and not addressed on my post) 25 rolls oil-cooler Now included and only a hundred buck or two from factory would not effect cost much LSD As part of sport package either don't offer a crap one or charge enough to make it worthwhile. Most ppl who need LSD have to buy two. (One installed and one upgraded) NISMO ECU free. just use the Nismo flash. RCU Data is free once developed better clutch Point taken. Though I don't know how expensive it would be to put in a well designed clutch pedal. I doubt it would cost much outside of design cost. (Which cost almost nothing to implement.). (I'd be happy to send them mine to copy for free. Lol) better CSC Point taken. But failure prone OEM cost more in long run than decent OEM would. PSS tires Never addressed in my post. more light weight material Not addressed in my post better audio Not addressed better quality components. Not requested or demanded I think ppl are getting mad thinking that I have insulted their car (I understand, I love mine too). That was not my intention! This is just meant to be a quick reference of easy fixes for new Z owners. Things almost everyone eventually addresses. Don't be mad it's just info for shining up a cool car to make it great. I'm not going to defend this position anymore. If you love your Z as is then please by all means leave it be!!! If you want a list of easy fixes that make this car more reliable and in my opinion nicer to drive please feel free to implement some of the aforementioned mods. They are provided as a service to those who don't lurk the forum as much as I have. If I can save one member from being stranded by fuel starvation or a broken CSC or SLC I'll consider this post to have been a service to my fellow Z lovers. It has never been my intent to insult anybody's car or mod choices, and so I can stop worrying about bruised egos, I am now officially stepping out of this thread. JARblue likes this. __________________ 09 6spd Berk CBE, JWT cams, ZSpeed CSC, Stillen (25 row oil, brake cooling, sways, gen3 CAI), Passport (9500ci), Quaife LSD, Z1 400 hp kit, ss lines, pads, rotors, clutch etc, Phunk's pan and fuel starve fix

10-18-2013, 01:01 PM	#5 (permalink)
Chuck33079 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Houston Posts: 12,265 Drives: 2011 370ztt Rep Power: 29540	Diamond in the rough. A heavy flywheel makes the car easier to drive. A lightweight flywheel is a pain in the *** to drive with and it's noisy. Nissan didnt design the car for enthusiasts, they designed it for a larger market. And part of the sales pitch for the Nismo is the increased power. Why would they tune all zs to that level? __________________ 2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

10-18-2013, 02:45 PM	#6 (permalink)
Magic Bus A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2012 Location: Honolulu Posts: 1,427 Drives: 17 6MT M2 Rep Power: 18756	SurfDog, I understood and appreciate your post as I did a couple of those fixes myself. IMO, nothing wrong with discussing some of the imperfections on an already good product to make it even better. Maybe our discussions will be overheard by Nissan and the next Z will be even better SurfDog likes this.

10-18-2013, 03:06 PM	#7 (permalink)
Minsu A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,401 Drives: 2013 MidBlue 370Z 6M Rep Power: 25	^^^^ Whatttt who asked for 200bhp! __________________ I figured, Get High, Take the Test High, Get HIGH Scoes

10-19-2013, 04:44 PM	#9 (permalink)
Read T A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2012 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,046 Drives: 11 Nissan 370z BC 6M Rep Power: 20	The base stereo is fine by me, better than other cars I've owned The road noise is because there are huge wheels right behind your back I've never had any problems with fuel starvation and about every tank I get to --- miles remaining Heavy flywheel probably makes the car easier to drive for most people, or is a bandaid for what I agree is horrible clutch feel. Most people who buy the car will never even know what an LSD does so from a company standpoint it doesn't really matter to put in a better one. That said the S15 which ended production in 2001 had a helical R200. I would add that after 1 year, the paint bubbling off of a car is pretty ***-tastic. I've never had a car before with electronic throttle or traction control. I think both of those suck and could be revised. I want to go WOT when I put my foot all the way down. Agree on the oil cooler, sitting in traffic and hitting 250 is stupid. __________________ 2011 Nissan 370z Black Cherry Sport Pkg - Daily Driver, , 1960 Morgan +4 fun car, 1986 BMW 325ES, 1998 M3 and 1996 Spec Miata - Race Cars SUPPORT TEAM WINSOME RACING - WRL, CHUMP, LEMONS Last edited by Read T; 10-19-2013 at 04:47 PM.

10-20-2013, 03:05 AM	#13 (permalink)
Gregor12 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: CHARLOTTE, NC Posts: 433 Drives: 2012 370z 6mt sport Rep Power: 13	comparing to my 2012 wrx you guys should be happy lol every time I drove the car i was just waiting for it to **** a piston. the Z is a sports car. its not supposed to be quite. the absence of an oil cooler hasn't been an issue for me and never had fuel starvation leading to power loss and ive pushed it pretty hard on 1/4 of a tank. tune seems awesome to me... no hick ups and smooth power band.. my wrx would misfire all the time. threw its first code at 26 miles on the odometer everything else seems great to me also. best bang for the buck in my opinion. but then again i bought mine used with 22000 miles lol

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