Rough Start - Something Seems Wrong

zero610 · 09-17-2010, 08:57 AM

Was hoping someone could help me with this problem.

After the car has been running and is warm, if I leave it sitting 2-4 hours and come back and try to start it, it seems like it struggles to start. Basically there is a long crank and it continues until the engine finally turns over and starts. There have been a few occasions that the engine didn't start and I have to press the ignition button again. It is definitely embarrassing when sitting in the parking lot trying to start a 2009 car that sounds like it is having trouble.

I've taken it to the dealer and they were basically no help - saying that sometimes a long start is "normal" and they pointed me to a page in the owners manual that talks about having trouble starting, you need to apply some gas, or some BS like that.

When starting cold or still hot, engine starts up fine - it is just that 2-4 hour window that gives me the problems.

Any ideas? It just doesn't seem right that I would be having starting troubles like this. Thanks in advance.

ZedZed · 09-17-2010, 09:35 AM

Sounds like you need to move from your stealership to a proper dealership. The issue you're having doesn't sound right. Hope some techies here can point you in the right direction.

nuts4nissan09 · 09-17-2010, 11:25 AM

It sounds like vapor lock to me, but then I'm only a "shade tree" mechanic. It has to be something to do w/ heat soak @ the fuel lines (sitting for 2hrs after being driven). It may even be a faulty fuel cap? Thankfully I haven't had this problem in the 16,xxx miles I've put on my car. I wouldn't accept this as normal. Something is wrong w/ your fuel system. You'll probably need to either find another dealer or become more "forceful" w/ your current one. I despise the way some dealer service dep'ts won't do anything until you are about to explode w/ anger! I had to be like this w/ the local Nissan dealer over the alignment on my Frontier. Good luck and don't take no for an answer.

doubleG370Z · 09-17-2010, 04:49 PM

I've had this situation with my last car(push button), sometime you don't push the button correctly maybe too quick or too soft or not in the centre of the button and the engine doesn't turn on, instead just the radio.
Don't worry no real problem to worry about, just monitor it and if happens everytime you start the car then do have it looked at.

ChrisSlicks · 09-18-2010, 10:19 AM

Sounds like heat soaked fuel lines, which would cause a temporary vapor lock. A few things you could try.

- Switch fuel brands. Make sure your fuel has no more than 10% ethanol and is 91+ octane.
- With the foot off the clutch double tap the start button so that it goes to the 'On' mode first which I believe will pressurize the fuel system. Once in this mode depress the clutch and press the button again to start. Same procedure for auto, just substitute brake for clutch.

SoCal 370Z · 09-18-2010, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doubleG370Z

I've had this situation with my last car(push button), sometime you don't push the button correctly maybe too quick or too soft or not in the centre of the button and the engine doesn't turn on, instead just the radio.
Don't worry no real problem to worry about, just monitor it and if happens everytime you start the car then do have it looked at.

I think you're onto something as the starter button simply sends an electronic signal to the ECM to get matters going. Also, if you depress the starter button for more than two (2) seconds the engine stops. Almost sounds like a switch issue?

optiontrader · 09-18-2010, 01:35 PM

I've heard of engines being somewhat difficult to start after 10-15 minutes (like at a gas station), but not after 2-3 hours.

My Honda (del Sol - modified ECU) would exhibit this 10-15 min issue, and it turned out replacing the coolant temperature sensor and adjusting the cold start fuel compensation helped out a lot (but not 100%). My theory was the sensor read good at the extremes, but in between as it cooled down (the 10-15 min range), it would send the wrong temp reading to the ECU, which would incorrectly lean out/richen the fuel mixture upon start up.

But after 2-3 hours? Doesn't seem likely, though I've noticed there is A LOT of stored heat in the VQ37 engine and compartment after the car turns off. I've noticed oil temps still up there after the car's been stopped for an hour.

ProfessorDave · 09-20-2010, 11:54 AM

Other manufacturers have had problems with sticking fuel pump relays under similar circumstances. Just one more thing to consider.

bclarke22 · 10-07-2010, 03:05 PM

I am having the exact same issue. I've taken the car to the dealer twice - they typically tell me that they cannot duplicate the problem. I drive home, let the car sit - and it doesn't want to start "normally". I spoke with the mechanic (not the service rep) after the second visit. He said that the service rep did not tell him everything I told him; he recommended I make an appointment to leave the car overnight. Mechanic stated it may be a fuel pressure issue. They did a fuel pressure test of some type, called me today stating they are replacing a "faulty" fuel pump. I'll let you know what happens.

BTW - I agree with you about being embarrassed that your sweet looking car won't start normally, especially when people are watching. Happened to me quite a few times.

-Bob

zero610 · 10-08-2010, 08:06 AM

Bob - are you having the problem after your car has been sitting overnight and is cool, or like me after a few hours? I have found that using a better quality fuel is helping somewhat. I'm still testing it out.

Also, I believe my fuel pump was also replaced at about 5,000 miles (20,000 on there now) for a similar issue. That was me having problems starting from cold (after leaving it overnight).

Keep us updated on whether or not it was your fuel pump and anything else you might find out. Thanks.

bclarke22 · 10-09-2010, 01:01 PM

zero610,

My starting problem seems to happen most frequently after the car sits for about an hour or so, usually after it has reached operating temperature with normal driving. I have not experienced any cold starting (first thing in the AM) problems. It only happens after I drive it and it sits for a while. I picked my car up from the dealer yesterday, they replaced the fuel pump. There is a strong odor of gasoline in the car (hope that is normal after a fuel pump replacement). I drove the car for about a 1/2 hour, let it sit for about an hour...same problem, hard start (long cranking - then sputtering as it tries to start). The car always starts - my concern is the excessive wear on the starter. I'm not a mechanic, but the problem doesn't seem to be the fuel pump

unless they replaced it with another defective one. I'm going to take it back and have them look at it again on Monday. I have about 7000 miles on the car. I have had the 370Z for about 1.5 years (I travel alot) of a 3 year lease. I'm pretty disappointed that I'm having these problems with a car I don't drive that frequently. I may be crossing Nissan off of my list after this experience.

-Bob

bclarke22 · 10-10-2010, 06:27 PM

AK370Z · 10-10-2010, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bclarke22

That's def a little too long. Take it to ANOTHER Nissan dealer. If they don't honor your request then write an email to the Nissan Corp Dealer Manager (I can pm you the email address(s) ) or call their 1-800 number for Nissan consumer affairs.

Good luck

bclarke22 · 10-10-2010, 06:33 PM

I posted a video of my hard starting issue so you can get a better idea of what I am experiencing. This is AFTER the dealer installed the new fuel pump. The fuel pump replacement obviously did not solve the problem. Do you think this is abnormal? Or is it just me??

AK370Z -- thanks for the lightning fast reply. If I don't get any help from the dealer I'll let you know

Thanks

-Bob

AK370Z · 10-10-2010, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bclarke22

I posted a video of my hard starting issue so you can get a better idea of what I am experiencing. This is AFTER the dealer installed the new fuel pump. The fuel pump replacement obviously did not solve the problem. Do you think this is abnormal? Or is it just me??

AK370Z -- thanks for the lightning fast reply. If I don't get any help from the dealer I'll let you know

Thanks

-Bob

I def think it's abnormal. Regardless of how long or short distance I drive, regardless of how cold or hot my engine is, my Z starts in a split second! Just my

09-17-2010, 08:57 AM	#1 (permalink)
zero610 Base Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 89 Drives: 09 370Z Sport Rep Power: 16	Rough Start - Something Seems Wrong Was hoping someone could help me with this problem. After the car has been running and is warm, if I leave it sitting 2-4 hours and come back and try to start it, it seems like it struggles to start. Basically there is a long crank and it continues until the engine finally turns over and starts. There have been a few occasions that the engine didn't start and I have to press the ignition button again. It is definitely embarrassing when sitting in the parking lot trying to start a 2009 car that sounds like it is having trouble. I've taken it to the dealer and they were basically no help - saying that sometimes a long start is "normal" and they pointed me to a page in the owners manual that talks about having trouble starting, you need to apply some gas, or some BS like that. When starting cold or still hot, engine starts up fine - it is just that 2-4 hour window that gives me the problems. Any ideas? It just doesn't seem right that I would be having starting troubles like this. Thanks in advance.

09-17-2010, 11:25 AM	#3 (permalink)
nuts4nissan09 Base Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Washington,NC Posts: 39 Drives: 09 370Z PW Sport MT Rep Power: 15	Vapor lock maybe? It sounds like vapor lock to me, but then I'm only a "shade tree" mechanic. It has to be something to do w/ heat soak @ the fuel lines (sitting for 2hrs after being driven). It may even be a faulty fuel cap? Thankfully I haven't had this problem in the 16,xxx miles I've put on my car. I wouldn't accept this as normal. Something is wrong w/ your fuel system. You'll probably need to either find another dealer or become more "forceful" w/ your current one. I despise the way some dealer service dep'ts won't do anything until you are about to explode w/ anger! I had to be like this w/ the local Nissan dealer over the alignment on my Frontier. Good luck and don't take no for an answer.

09-18-2010, 10:19 AM	#5 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	Sounds like heat soaked fuel lines, which would cause a temporary vapor lock. A few things you could try. - Switch fuel brands. Make sure your fuel has no more than 10% ethanol and is 91+ octane. - With the foot off the clutch double tap the start button so that it goes to the 'On' mode first which I believe will pressurize the fuel system. Once in this mode depress the clutch and press the button again to start. Same procedure for auto, just substitute brake for clutch. __________________ Hotchkis ARB \| Stillen CAI \| Art Pipes \| Berk CBE \| Stillen AP Racing Brakes \| AE Performance Oil Cooler \| BC Racing ER Coilovers \| Doran Control Arms

09-18-2010, 01:35 PM	#7 (permalink)
optiontrader Track Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Smog Hell, SoCal Posts: 595 Drives: 40th Rep Power: 15	I've heard of engines being somewhat difficult to start after 10-15 minutes (like at a gas station), but not after 2-3 hours. My Honda (del Sol - modified ECU) would exhibit this 10-15 min issue, and it turned out replacing the coolant temperature sensor and adjusting the cold start fuel compensation helped out a lot (but not 100%). My theory was the sensor read good at the extremes, but in between as it cooled down (the 10-15 min range), it would send the wrong temp reading to the ECU, which would incorrectly lean out/richen the fuel mixture upon start up. But after 2-3 hours? Doesn't seem likely, though I've noticed there is A LOT of stored heat in the VQ37 engine and compartment after the car turns off. I've noticed oil temps still up there after the car's been stopped for an hour. __________________ 40th Anniversary Z - 3M Paint Protection Film, CA Legal Tint! (70/40)

09-20-2010, 11:54 AM	#8 (permalink)
ProfessorDave A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Scranton, PA Posts: 1,580 Drives: In the fairway Rep Power: 18	Other manufacturers have had problems with sticking fuel pump relays under similar circumstances. Just one more thing to consider. __________________ Rain, snow, sleet, hail: 2009 Mazda 3 sGT HB Everything else: 2009 370z, PW Touring 6MT

09-17-2010, 09:35 AM	#2 (permalink)
ZedZed Base Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Belgium, Brussels Posts: 237 Drives: nothing Rep Power: 15	Sounds like you need to move from your stealership to a proper dealership. The issue you're having doesn't sound right. Hope some techies here can point you in the right direction.

09-17-2010, 04:49 PM	#4 (permalink)
doubleG370Z Enthusiast Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Vancouver Posts: 257 Drives: 09 370Z blk 7AT NAV Rep Power: 14	I've had this situation with my last car(push button), sometime you don't push the button correctly maybe too quick or too soft or not in the centre of the button and the engine doesn't turn on, instead just the radio. Don't worry no real problem to worry about, just monitor it and if happens everytime you start the car then do have it looked at.

10-07-2010, 03:05 PM	#9 (permalink)
bclarke22 Base Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Leesburg, VA Posts: 34 Drives: 09 370Z 6MT Touring Rep Power: 15	I am having the exact same issue. I've taken the car to the dealer twice - they typically tell me that they cannot duplicate the problem. I drive home, let the car sit - and it doesn't want to start "normally". I spoke with the mechanic (not the service rep) after the second visit. He said that the service rep did not tell him everything I told him; he recommended I make an appointment to leave the car overnight. Mechanic stated it may be a fuel pressure issue. They did a fuel pressure test of some type, called me today stating they are replacing a "faulty" fuel pump. I'll let you know what happens. BTW - I agree with you about being embarrassed that your sweet looking car won't start normally, especially when people are watching. Happened to me quite a few times. -Bob

10-08-2010, 08:06 AM	#10 (permalink)
zero610 Base Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 89 Drives: 09 370Z Sport Rep Power: 16	Bob - are you having the problem after your car has been sitting overnight and is cool, or like me after a few hours? I have found that using a better quality fuel is helping somewhat. I'm still testing it out. Also, I believe my fuel pump was also replaced at about 5,000 miles (20,000 on there now) for a similar issue. That was me having problems starting from cold (after leaving it overnight). Keep us updated on whether or not it was your fuel pump and anything else you might find out. Thanks.

10-09-2010, 01:01 PM	#11 (permalink)
bclarke22 Base Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Leesburg, VA Posts: 34 Drives: 09 370Z 6MT Touring Rep Power: 15	zero610, My starting problem seems to happen most frequently after the car sits for about an hour or so, usually after it has reached operating temperature with normal driving. I have not experienced any cold starting (first thing in the AM) problems. It only happens after I drive it and it sits for a while. I picked my car up from the dealer yesterday, they replaced the fuel pump. There is a strong odor of gasoline in the car (hope that is normal after a fuel pump replacement). I drove the car for about a 1/2 hour, let it sit for about an hour...same problem, hard start (long cranking - then sputtering as it tries to start). The car always starts - my concern is the excessive wear on the starter. I'm not a mechanic, but the problem doesn't seem to be the fuel pump unless they replaced it with another defective one. I'm going to take it back and have them look at it again on Monday. I have about 7000 miles on the car. I have had the 370Z for about 1.5 years (I travel alot) of a 3 year lease. I'm pretty disappointed that I'm having these problems with a car I don't drive that frequently. I may be crossing Nissan off of my list after this experience. -Bob Last edited by bclarke22; 10-09-2010 at 09:14 PM. Reason: Modified some of my wording

10-10-2010, 06:27 PM	#12 (permalink)
bclarke22 Base Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Leesburg, VA Posts: 34 Drives: 09 370Z 6MT Touring Rep Power: 15	Last edited by AK370Z; 10-10-2010 at 06:30 PM. Reason: video embedded

10-10-2010, 06:33 PM	#14 (permalink)
bclarke22 Base Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Leesburg, VA Posts: 34 Drives: 09 370Z 6MT Touring Rep Power: 15	I posted a video of my hard starting issue so you can get a better idea of what I am experiencing. This is AFTER the dealer installed the new fuel pump. The fuel pump replacement obviously did not solve the problem. Do you think this is abnormal? Or is it just me?? AK370Z -- thanks for the lightning fast reply. If I don't get any help from the dealer I'll let you know Thanks -Bob Last edited by bclarke22; 10-10-2010 at 06:36 PM.

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