WHY OEM INTAKES and FILTERS ARE BETTER

GTLAW · 04-03-2013, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

Every person except GTLAW (GSXR750 too) must be wrong. Somehow all the empirical evidence we have gathered is wrong too. We are all doomed. The minimum whp expected is 10whp on a modded car, and more as a first mod. The stock intakes are good, but CAI's will create more power, and more than the 4-6 you claim. We should just spam this thread with dyno results.

Bottom line is stock, second line is full exhaust, 3rd line is CAI and pulleys. Looks like my low end has dramatically improved as well. The dyno must be lying.

Again, if the car could be tested having Air RAM into the stock intakes! it would give you the HP your looking for! reason aftermarket intakes give that HP boast on a dyno is because you are running the car at max speeds with open filters! it's not real world driving

FPenvy · 04-03-2013, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTLAW

Again, if the car could be tested having Air RAM into the stock intakes! it would give you the HP your looking for! reason aftermarket intakes give that HP boast on a dyno is because you are running the car at max speeds with open filters! it's not real world driving

you do realize when on a dyno they have large fans blowing air into the front of the car for intake/cooling purposes. it may not be 100% accurate for actual speeds you hit at the high end on a dyno but still there's air.

even "real world" driving i'll take my aftermarket intakes over those giant ugly inefficient air boxes any day.

KERMIT · 04-02-2013, 05:26 PM

I would post more but don't want to cloud this topic with factual information. Has anyone performed a gage r&r on these Dyno's.? Please show me the design of experiments where you can isolate the "intake" variable

Too many opinions. Not enough data. Those that throw out Dyno plots should also understand their repeatability when discussing small gains.

UNKNOWN_370 · 04-02-2013, 05:46 PM

I don't know why the OP is borderline being flamed because he is right...

At least when we are talking about only installing the intake. The intake can increase gas mileage in a car based on his explanation of how power re-distributes once the intake is installed.

But what OP is also failing to realize that anyone putting on an intake ONLY and thinks they improved the cars performance is dilusional and is feeling the euphorium placebo effect from buying something shiny on their car they can show off to their nut-hugging friends... You wont see any power gains till you are somewhere around 5200 rpm. Anything else, you are losing between 4 and 12rwhp.

So why do we install intakes? Intakes are there because they are part of a system. That system is a new intake, manifold, header, downpipe/HFC, and exhaust. when you make the complete mod and finalize it with a tune, you will see serious power gains. Between 50-80hp.

Most don't follow this method. Most add on an intake and exhaust. Forget about the rest and at best gain 20hp up high while losing 10 down low. The full mod is meant to be done in one giant modification to feel the true results of your breather mods and tune.

Is buying an intake over stock worth it??? Fvck NO!!!

Is buying intake, manifold, headers, downpipe/hfc, exhaust and a tune worth it.. FVCK YES.

Then there is another debate... Which intake companies design intake that will lose the least hp down low before gaining. This research would be very costly because it would take a well financed magazine to go throw every type of intake and dyno them.

What may be great engineered intake on one car may not work as well on another. Theoretical Example. Stillen may provide 18hp above 5200rpm on th Z but it may lose 12hp from 1000-4800rpm, while injen may only produce 15hp above 5200 rpm but injen may only lose 4hp between 1000-4800 rpm??? So which mod would be better?

I don't think anyone has tried to do direct dyno comparisons but it would be good to see the effect with equally modded cars.

MX52Z · 04-02-2013, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

So why do we install intakes? Intakes are there because they are part of a system. That system is a new intake, manifold, header, downpipe/HFC, and exhaust. when you make the complete mod and finalize it with a tune, you will see serious power gains. Between 50-80hp.

Most don't follow this method. Most add on an intake and exhaust. Forget about the rest and at best gain 20hp up high while losing 10 down low. The full mod is meant to be done in one giant modification to feel the true results of your breather mods and tune.

Exactly. This inevitable response should have been on page 1.

Z_ealot · 04-02-2013, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

I don't know why the OP is borderline being flamed because he is right...

At least when we are talking about only installing the intake. The intake can increase gas mileage in a car based on his explanation of how power re-distributes once the intake is installed.

But what OP is also failing to realize that anyone putting on an intake ONLY and thinks they improved the cars performance is dilusional and is feeling the euphorium placebo effect from buying something shiny on their car they can show off to their nut-hugging friends... You wont see any power gains till you are somewhere around 5200 rpm. Anything else, you are losing between 4 and 12rwhp.

So why do we install intakes? Intakes are there because they are part of a system. That system is a new intake, manifold, header, downpipe/HFC, and exhaust. when you make the complete mod and finalize it with a tune, you will see serious power gains. Between 50-80hp.

Most don't follow this method. Most add on an intake and exhaust. Forget about the rest and at best gain 20hp up high while losing 10 down low. The full mod is meant to be done in one giant modification to feel the true results of your breather mods and tune.

Is buying an intake over stock worth it??? Fvck NO!!!

Is buying intake, manifold, headers, downpipe/hfc, exhaust and a tune worth it.. FVCK YES.

Then there is another debate... Which intake companies design intake that will lose the least hp down low before gaining. This research would be very costly because it would take a well financed magazine to go throw every type of intake and dyno them.

What may be great engineered intake on one car may not work as well on another. Theoretical Example. Stillen may provide 18hp above 5200rpm on th Z but it may lose 12hp from 1000-4800rpm, while injen may only produce 15hp above 5200 rpm but injen may only lose 4hp between 1000-4800 rpm??? So which mod would be better?

I don't think anyone has tried to do direct dyno comparisons but it would be good to see the effect with equally modded cars.

what everyone fails to take into consideration though that while yes, the intake by itself may not provide big gains is the fact that not everyone can afford to plop down the 3 or 4 grand it would take to do all of the above that you mentioned so while it may not be worth it to some people to get just the intake, other people view it as a first step to a larger goal till they can afford the next piece of the puzzle so to speak. in any case this is just an opinion thread so there is no right answer when it comes to this topic, people are just going to do things the way they want/are able to do within their means.

UNKNOWN_370 · 04-03-2013, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z_ealot

what everyone fails to take into consideration though that while yes, the intake by itself may not provide big gains is the fact that not everyone can afford to plop down the 3 or 4 grand it would take to do all of the above that you mentioned so while it may not be worth it to some people to get just the intake, other people view it as a first step to a larger goal till they can afford the next piece of the puzzle so to speak. in any case this is just an opinion thread so there is no right answer when it comes to this topic, people are just going to do things the way they want/are able to do within their means.

The smart thing to do would be to buy the parts piece by piece, but don't install till you have all parts. Make sense?

kenchan · 04-03-2013, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

The smart thing to do would be to buy the parts piece by piece, but don't install

fixed

Z_ealot · 04-03-2013, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

The smart thing to do would be to buy the parts piece by piece, but don't install till you have all parts. Make sense?

That's mainly what I was getting at but at the same time you are always going to be tempted to play with that brand new toy lol

UNKNOWN_370 · 04-03-2013, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z_ealot

That's mainly what I was getting at but at the same time you are always going to be tempted to play with that brand new toy lol

No doubt, but if you're serious about performance gains??? The way I said it is the only way to really get it done right.

KERMIT · 04-02-2013, 06:12 PM

My favorite is when people claim better fuel economy after an intake install...

SS_Firehawk · 04-02-2013, 06:49 PM

Here are multiple results from multiple companies showing... well, results better than 4-6whp and more than just 6.5k+

Not letting me link MotoIQ, but google Moto IQ AEM intake results and they have a good write up.

http://www.aemintakes.com/dynocharts...-1002_dyno.pdf

2010 Nismo Akuma Intake Installed

SS_Firehawk · 04-02-2013, 07:23 PM

what is there to explain? When the install happened, NST pulleys and AEM CAI's were installed at the same time. If you are so eager to figure it out, Call GTM and have them put my car back together. Seriously, what is it that you don't understand?

Zoren 370 · 04-02-2013, 09:12 PM

Oh might join the band wagon...Op I do agree with your statement the OEM is probably as good or better than any aftermarket intakes.
Did I feel any difference in performance? Certainly not...
Do I want to push my Z hard? Certainly Yes...That is why I bought a sports car.
Do I care about gas consumption on my Z? Hell NO... Gas is more cheaper than PROZAC or ZOLOFT!!!!
Do I care about performance numbers? Probably Yes and NO
Just like Firehawk have said Modding is not like 1+1=2, sometimes you even end up with Zero or negative.
But the beauty about modding your car is not entirely because of numbers or performance alone but its also a "Feel Good Commodity".

One good example is the Sports lightweight rays wheels. These are probably the BEST wheels out there in terms of performance both in the street or in the track but why people over here like me had to change wheels?
Its sad that these high performance wheels are only selling 1K at the forum ADs....It doesn't make sense right?
In fact I made my car even slower by having a 305 tire set up in the rears on my M10 wheels which is far heavier than the sport rays.

Did I stupidly spend my hard earned money in buying my K&N typhoon filters knowing the OEM filters works better at certain extent? I would say NO...As I enjoy every minute of it seeing it inside my engine bay. To me its a worth while investment because I am "HAPPY" with it.

Modding is an ADDICTION just like any sin.... Is buying a Rolex watch better than buying a Timex watch?....As far as I know both give me the same time...
I rest my case.

asdfsammich · 04-02-2013, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z_ealot

lol, no i meant the forum member by the name of gsxr750...he started a similar thread a while back...must be his retarded cousin that started this one

Fsckng lols. ^^^ this.

I read the thread title and just assumed wtf is gxsr going on about now.

Tapatalk2 ...

04-02-2013, 05:26 PM	#3 (permalink)
KERMIT Enthusiast Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Republic of Wadiya Posts: 301 Drives: Ms. Daisy Rep Power: 15	I would post more but don't want to cloud this topic with factual information. Has anyone performed a gage r&r on these Dyno's.? Please show me the design of experiments where you can isolate the "intake" variable Too many opinions. Not enough data. Those that throw out Dyno plots should also understand their repeatability when discussing small gains. __________________ Steering wheel with Z emblem, keyless entry, 3.7L with dual overhead cams, am/fm radio, ABS brakes, windshield, air in tires

04-02-2013, 05:46 PM	#4 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14859	I don't know why the OP is borderline being flamed because he is right... At least when we are talking about only installing the intake. The intake can increase gas mileage in a car based on his explanation of how power re-distributes once the intake is installed. But what OP is also failing to realize that anyone putting on an intake ONLY and thinks they improved the cars performance is dilusional and is feeling the euphorium placebo effect from buying something shiny on their car they can show off to their nut-hugging friends... You wont see any power gains till you are somewhere around 5200 rpm. Anything else, you are losing between 4 and 12rwhp. So why do we install intakes? Intakes are there because they are part of a system. That system is a new intake, manifold, header, downpipe/HFC, and exhaust. when you make the complete mod and finalize it with a tune, you will see serious power gains. Between 50-80hp. Most don't follow this method. Most add on an intake and exhaust. Forget about the rest and at best gain 20hp up high while losing 10 down low. The full mod is meant to be done in one giant modification to feel the true results of your breather mods and tune. Is buying an intake over stock worth it??? Fvck NO!!! Is buying intake, manifold, headers, downpipe/hfc, exhaust and a tune worth it.. FVCK YES. Then there is another debate... Which intake companies design intake that will lose the least hp down low before gaining. This research would be very costly because it would take a well financed magazine to go throw every type of intake and dyno them. What may be great engineered intake on one car may not work as well on another. Theoretical Example. Stillen may provide 18hp above 5200rpm on th Z but it may lose 12hp from 1000-4800rpm, while injen may only produce 15hp above 5200 rpm but injen may only lose 4hp between 1000-4800 rpm??? So which mod would be better? I don't think anyone has tried to do direct dyno comparisons but it would be good to see the effect with equally modded cars. GTLAW likes this. __________________ Favorite Quote. "I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980

04-02-2013, 06:12 PM	#11 (permalink)
KERMIT Enthusiast Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Republic of Wadiya Posts: 301 Drives: Ms. Daisy Rep Power: 15	My favorite is when people claim better fuel economy after an intake install... __________________ Steering wheel with Z emblem, keyless entry, 3.7L with dual overhead cams, am/fm radio, ABS brakes, windshield, air in tires

04-02-2013, 06:49 PM	#12 (permalink)
SS_Firehawk A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tampa Posts: 4,142 Drives: 13' Magma Red Nismo Rep Power: 7336	Here are multiple results from multiple companies showing... well, results better than 4-6whp and more than just 6.5k+ Not letting me link MotoIQ, but google Moto IQ AEM intake results and they have a good write up. http://www.aemintakes.com/dynocharts...-1002_dyno.pdf 2010 Nismo Akuma Intake Installed XwChriswX likes this. __________________ Old Car:GTM TSC'd 550whp / 410lbft tq @ 11.88PSI New Car: Under Construction Last edited by SS_Firehawk; 04-02-2013 at 06:59 PM.

04-02-2013, 07:23 PM	#13 (permalink)
SS_Firehawk A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tampa Posts: 4,142 Drives: 13' Magma Red Nismo Rep Power: 7336	what is there to explain? When the install happened, NST pulleys and AEM CAI's were installed at the same time. If you are so eager to figure it out, Call GTM and have them put my car back together. Seriously, what is it that you don't understand? __________________ Old Car:GTM TSC'd 550whp / 410lbft tq @ 11.88PSI New Car: Under Construction

04-02-2013, 09:12 PM	#14 (permalink)
Zoren 370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: FL Posts: 11,018 Drives: 11 Nissan 370 M6 Rep Power: 1913655	Oh might join the band wagon...Op I do agree with your statement the OEM is probably as good or better than any aftermarket intakes. Did I feel any difference in performance? Certainly not... Do I want to push my Z hard? Certainly Yes...That is why I bought a sports car. Do I care about gas consumption on my Z? Hell NO... Gas is more cheaper than PROZAC or ZOLOFT!!!! Do I care about performance numbers? Probably Yes and NO Just like Firehawk have said Modding is not like 1+1=2, sometimes you even end up with Zero or negative. But the beauty about modding your car is not entirely because of numbers or performance alone but its also a "Feel Good Commodity". One good example is the Sports lightweight rays wheels. These are probably the BEST wheels out there in terms of performance both in the street or in the track but why people over here like me had to change wheels? Its sad that these high performance wheels are only selling 1K at the forum ADs....It doesn't make sense right? In fact I made my car even slower by having a 305 tire set up in the rears on my M10 wheels which is far heavier than the sport rays. Did I stupidly spend my hard earned money in buying my K&N typhoon filters knowing the OEM filters works better at certain extent? I would say NO...As I enjoy every minute of it seeing it inside my engine bay. To me its a worth while investment because I am "HAPPY" with it. Modding is an ADDICTION just like any sin.... Is buying a Rolex watch better than buying a Timex watch?....As far as I know both give me the same time... I rest my case. rAiN, GTLAW and DLSTR like this.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
HKS Racing Suction Intakes\|Super Hybrid Filters\|Legamax/Hi-Power Exhausts\|SHIPS FREE!	SE	SpeedElement	12	04-03-2012 09:13 PM
[FOR SALE] TX Cobb Silicone Intakes and HF Filters	somatic	Parts for sale (Private Classifieds)	5	02-16-2012 05:29 PM
[FOR SALE] OEM Intakes + Filters	370guy	Parts for sale (Private Classifieds)	2	12-21-2011 12:26 PM
Nismo, Stillen, K&N & Jim Wolf Intakes & Filters, At The 370ZSOURCE!!!!!	Michael@TheZStore	Intake/Exhaust	2	06-19-2009 03:48 PM