The next gen Z!

SS_Firehawk · 12-12-2012, 03:22 PM

I wouldn't call it a shoe string budget, it was worked in secret before upper management got wind of what was cooking.For a company the size of Mazda, I would consider it a hefty sum. It's true components of the chassis and it's design are shared with the Miata, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it the same platform, hence why the chassis designations aren't the same.. The FM platform is used on the Z, G, M, and FX vehicles. Vastly different in size to a 2500lbs Miata. Nissan is only on it's 2nd generation with the platform, it really isn't that old and would most likely prefer to have it play host to another generation of vehicles. Every vehicle using the FM platform has received very positive feedback with regards to the bones.

The VQ designation is a bit long in the tooth, but the engines now only share very basic design elements with the original VQ engines. They have evolved at least once every model generation. Nissan is going to tap that thing out until it's just not competitive. It is the highest performing NA V6 on the market. Even amongst all these brand new engines, it stands above the rest in terms of performance. NVH, different matter

Back the RX-8 (I really like the 09-11 redesign and came close to purchasing one). Torque is the real determining factor to when things break. Torque is the amount of force that is applied, not the actual speed of the movement (that's hp). I admit not knowing the full picture with the RX-8 drivetrain, but it really was designed around the characteristics of the Renesis engine. Take a look at how light and small components for Formula cars are! They don't make a lot of torque, but they make a lot of hp. Mazda will only overbuild it to a point, just like every other manufacturer. I don't think anyone would prefer a structurally weaker drivetrain as a cost for weight savings. That really handicaps the aftermarket community.

And BTW, thank you for keeping it clean. Even if we disagree on things, I think it's irritating when someone gets butt hurt when someone else challenges their view.

cavemancan · 12-12-2012, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

I wouldn't call it a shoe string budget, it was worked in secret before upper management got wind of what was cooking.For a company the size of Mazda, I would consider it a hefty sum. It's true components of the chassis and it's design are shared with the Miata, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it the same platform, hence why the chassis designations aren't the same.. The FM platform is used on the Z, G, M, and FX vehicles. Vastly different in size to a 2500lbs Miata. Nissan is only on it's 2nd generation with the platform, it really isn't that old and would most likely prefer to have it play host to another generation of vehicles. Every vehicle using the FM platform has received very positive feedback with regards to the bones.

They did indeed do some of the work in secret but that hardly goes on the books. As far as platform...the relationship of the Miata and Rx8 platforms are in relation as the Z, G, M...etc. They are stretched versions on the original dude. If you've ever seen the under carrage of an Rx8 and MX-5 Miata you will see an identical chasis. Everything is the same with the exception of the drive shaft length. It has been frequently cited in being a stretched Miata chasis hence the similar chasis characteristics on the road. I will not deny that it is a stretch to hope Nissan redesigns the Z platform into a new chasis designation to be shared with the Infinity G as well but can you deny this would be ideal for us as consumers regardless what risks to Nissan. I'm dreaming here I know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

The VQ designation is a bit long in the tooth, but the engines now only share very basic design elements with the original VQ engines. They have evolved at least once every model generation. Nissan is going to tap that thing out until it's just not competitive. It is the highest performing NA V6 on the market. Even amongst all these brand new engines, it stands above the rest in terms of performance. NVH, different matter

I like the VQ...I do...I'm impressed with it. Makes tones of efficient power with a near perfect torque line (not curve cause the thing is flat as hell). With that said the speculation here is that they are changing the engine. If that is the case then what would make sense? Hence my answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

Back the RX-8 (I really like the 09-11 redesign and came close to purchasing one). Torque is the real determining factor to when things break. Torque is the amount of force that is applied, not the actual speed of the movement (that's hp). I admit not knowing the full picture with the RX-8 drivetrain, but it really was designed around the characteristics of the Renesis engine. Take a look at how light and small components for Formula cars are! They don't make a lot of torque, but they make a lot of hp. Mazda will only overbuild it to a point, just like every other manufacturer. I don't think anyone would prefer a structurally weaker drivetrain as a cost for weight savings. That really handicaps the aftermarket community.

I know what torque is LMAO! Check this out...you think torque kills drive train? What do you think a transmission spinning 3 times the speed your engine is rated at will do? The rotary has 3 combustion cycles (you know that...dang dorritoes) so a rotary's tranny, drive shaft, and rear end will effectively spin 3 times that of a normal piston varient. Those forces will tear apart a normal transmission and rear end. Hell the Rx8 comes stock with a carbon fiber driveshaft. Now envission it handling a 3 rotor with much more power at those rpms. Put that drive train in a non modified piston engine and it will take the torque just fine (depending how much of course). The reason for the components to be light on a Formula car is two fold. 1) Hi revs need light components to aid in vibration resistance and 2) well cause...less weight is faster. As far as structually weaker it's not. For instance the carbon fiber drive shaft is in fact stronger then most stock shafts. I know what your saying man but the argument does not hold merrit in this case/compareson.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

And BTW, thank you for keeping it clean. Even if we disagree on things, I think it's irritating when someone gets butt hurt when someone else challenges their view.

Your lucky I'm lazy...I have a Butthurt meme that is AWESOME!!!

edub370 · 12-13-2012, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

Back the RX-8 (I really like the 09-11 redesign and came close to purchasing one). Torque is the real determining factor to when things break. Torque is the amount of force that is applied, not the actual speed of the movement (that's hp). I admit not knowing the full picture with the RX-8 drivetrain, but it really was designed around the characteristics of the Renesis engine. Take a look at how light and small components for Formula cars are! They don't make a lot of torque, but they make a lot of hp. Mazda will only overbuild it to a point, just like every other manufacturer. I don't think anyone would prefer a structurally weaker drivetrain as a cost for weight savings. That really handicaps the aftermarket community.

I will disagree. I think the rx8's rotary has been one of the worst engines in the last 20 years. How can u make an engine that makes no torque, no real power, burns oil, AND gets crap gas mileage? HOW?? Just when u start getting a hint of power, u are out of revs. Couple that with the fact that it needs to be slightly revved when shutting down to prevent flooding (engine tear down) and the rebuild intervals are at least 2 times more frequent than a normal engine, just makes it an AWFUL engine.

cavemancan · 12-13-2012, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edub370

I will disagree. I think the rx8's rotary has been one of the worst engines in the last 20 years. How can u make an engine that makes no torque, no real power, burns oil, AND gets crap gas mileage? HOW?? Just when u start getting a hint of power, u are out of revs. Couple that with the fact that it needs to be slightly revved when shutting down to prevent flooding (engine tear down) and the rebuild intervals are at least 2 times more frequent than a normal engine, just makes it an AWFUL engine.

Listen...I've had to live with the thing and I can tell you this: it is a very good CONCEPT with some major flaws. There are little to no engines out there that put out the HP per liter this does in NA format. 1.3L 234HP is nothing to be ashamed about. They simply put that engine in the wrong car or it should have been turbo'd. Also, there are plenty of engines that burn oil on the market today and flooding issues were all elimiated in 2006 and above versions of the engine.

Now consider this Piston engines have more then 40 years advantage compared to rotary technology. It is very easy to complain about a dirty engine when there is more advanced technology. Now roll back piston engine tech 40 years and the rotary suddenly becomes impressive.

Keep in mind this is coming from someone who wishes he had an LSx powered Corvette. It's easy to dis technology based on bad press regardless if it was well deserved or not the technology is getting much better. The newest version if the engine is supposed to eliminate many of the issues mentioned but we shall see how much of that is true.

The new 1.6L 300HP NA is a rediculous achievement and in my opinion should be put in a Miata sized car with a hardtop. It's supposed to be cleaner with better gas mileage and more torque.

UNKNOWN_370 · 12-12-2012, 03:31 PM

Even the miata is getting a 1.3sky activ turbo. lol

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...EUjkg3KPwJ9RCw

JungleZ · 12-12-2012, 03:32 PM

Anyone driven a supercharged z4M, that thing felt like an s2k on steroids

Dustin@Z1 · 12-12-2012, 03:37 PM

My concern about the next gen Z is this....

Look back at all Z's produced PRIOR to the 370Z. In all of the marketing and ads, the names were referred to as the ***Z (insert favorite model). They referred to the 350Z as the 350Z and the 300ZX and the 300ZX. But look at the all of the marketing materials for the 370Z. Nissan does not refer to it as the 370Z, they instead call it just the "Z".

This is not a very BIG thing, but if you pay attenion to Nissan's nomenclature. The *** (300, 370, 240) indicated engine displacement. If Nissan were to release a 1.8L Turbo 4-banger (based on the Juke engine), then it would be referred to as a 180Z. This would be HUGE since it would be the first time Nissan decreased engine displacement and would not follow tradition. However, if Nissan were to install a 2.4L turbo engine and called it a 240Z, it would have puriest outraged that they are attempting to redo the classic '70s 240Z.

With this said, if Nissan conveniently DROPS the *** numerical nomenclature from the title and just refers to the model as the "Z". They can stuff whatever engine they want into the chassis and most people would not care (except the Z purests).

I vote Nissan breaks the mold and goes a performance oriented NA VK56-based V8. Make it the Mustang GT/ Camaro SS killer priced accordingly. This would allow it to be powered LOWER than the flagship GT-R, makes additional power, and would really excite the aftermarket with parts by having one of the first widely available V8-powered sports cars from Japan. Nissan has put a lot of effort in developing the VK56 engine both in V8 Supercars and the LeMans racing series around the world. The only missing part of the equation is stuffing it into a performance oriented street chassis.

b1adesofcha0s · 12-12-2012, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dustin@Z1

My concern about the next gen Z is this....

Look back at all Z's produced PRIOR to the 370Z. In all of the marketing and ads, the names were referred to as the ***Z (insert favorite model). They referred to the 350Z as the 350Z and the 300ZX and the 300ZX. But look at the all of the marketing materials for the 370Z. Nissan does not refer to it as the 370Z, they instead call it just the "Z".

This is not a very BIG thing, but if you pay attenion to Nissan's nomenclature. The *** (300, 370, 240) indicated engine displacement. If Nissan were to release a 1.8L Turbo 4-banger (based on the Juke engine), then it would be referred to as a 180Z. This would be HUGE since it would be the first time Nissan decreased engine displacement and would not follow tradition. However, if Nissan were to install a 2.4L turbo engine and called it a 240Z, it would have puriest outraged that they are attempting to redo the classic '70s 240Z.

With this said, if Nissan conviently DROPS the *** numerical nomenclature from the title and just refers to the model as the "Z". They can stuff whatever engine they want into the chassis and most people would not care (except the Z purests).

I vote Nissan breaks the mold and goes a performance oriented NA VK56-based V8. Make it the Mustang GT/ Camaro SS killer priced accordingly. This would allow it to be powered LOWER than the flagship GT-R, makes additional power, and would really excite the aftermarket with parts by having one of the first widely available V8-powered sports cars from Japan. Nissan has put a lot of effort in developing the VK56 engine both in V8 Supercars and the LeMans racing series around the world. The only missing part of the equation is stuffing it into a performance oriented chassis.

A V8 Z would be awesome. If you look at Nissan's website, they already call it the "Z coupe" and "Z roadster" dropping the 370 from the name. It only says 370Z when you click on it to explore the car further.

tvfreakazoid · 12-14-2012, 08:24 AM

And the next Z will be a 4cyn turbo. The way they are marketing it, it seems so nissan will go with a smaller engine and just dropping the number completely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s

A V8 Z would be awesome. If you look at Nissan's website, they already call it the "Z coupe" and "Z roadster" dropping the 370 from the name. It only says 370Z when you click on it to explore the car further.

tvfreakazoid · 12-14-2012, 08:37 AM

If they go with a 4cyn Turbo, it will suck and wont' sound the same.

Definitely no V8.

The problem with nissan and the 370Z, they only do minor changes here and there while the stangs does some decent changes (not comparing the 2).

Really what nissan should do with the Z and what some other people have said in this thread, is offer 2 different engines like the mustangs and cameros.
Improve on the V6 and offer a 4cyn.

If they do keep the V6, more than likely it will be under 400HP. Nissan or any other Asian car manufacturer seems never really up the HP that much.

Not like what ford did with their mustang of 100HP increase. Never will that happen with Nissan, toyota or honda.

We shall see what will happen in the next coming months.

lemon-fresh · 12-12-2012, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dustin@Z1

My concern about the next gen Z is this....

Look back at all Z's produced PRIOR to the 370Z. In all of the marketing and ads, the names were referred to as the ***Z (insert favorite model). They referred to the 350Z as the 350Z and the 300ZX and the 300ZX. But look at the all of the marketing materials for the 370Z. Nissan does not refer to it as the 370Z, they instead call it just the "Z".

This is not a very BIG thing, but if you pay attenion to Nissan's nomenclature. The *** (300, 370, 240) indicated engine displacement. If Nissan were to release a 1.8L Turbo 4-banger (based on the Juke engine), then it would be referred to as a 180Z. This would be HUGE since it would be the first time Nissan decreased engine displacement and would not follow tradition. However, if Nissan were to install a 2.4L turbo engine and called it a 240Z, it would have puriest outraged that they are attempting to redo the classic '70s 240Z.

With this said, if Nissan conviently DROPS the *** numerical nomenclature from the title and just refers to the model as the "Z". They can stuff whatever engine they want into the chassis and most people would not care (except the Z purests).

I vote Nissan breaks the mold and goes a performance oriented NA VK56-based V8. Make it the Mustang GT/ Camaro SS killer priced accordingly. This would allow it to be powered LOWER than the flagship GT-R, makes additional power, and would really excite the aftermarket with parts by having one of the first widely available V8-powered sports cars from Japan. Nissan has put a lot of effort in developing the VK56 engine both in V8 Supercars and the LeMans racing series around the world. The only missing part of the equation is stuffing it into a performance oriented chassis.

V8 would be pretty cool. Anything but another turbo 4banger.

SS_Firehawk · 12-12-2012, 04:00 PM

Lol@Dustin. A VK56VD would really turn the Z into a beast. The two model theme can make a comeback by maintaining the VQ. That would be a serious one two punch. I would sell my Z for a VK56 powered one.

I still see it as a pipe dream unfortunately.

JungleZ · 12-12-2012, 04:22 PM

I guess I'm the only who saw the jay Leno visit to Nissan where that old guy basically says we're going lighter and more gas savings in mind..

cavemancan · 12-12-2012, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JungleZ

I guess I'm the only who saw the jay Leno visit to Nissan where that old guy basically says we're going lighter and more gas savings in mind..

No Dude I saw it too which is why I am saying everything I've said thus far. Yet everyone is spewing v8 comments. Nissan can't make a v8 powered Z handle that well with the current budget. It's a step in the wrong direction. A properly configured chasis and engine combo will kill porsche in the pockets and that should be Nissan's goal. Light weight, knimble, powerful, and bang for buck. Adding a heavy engine only makes muscle car dudes happy. Adding a powerful smaller engine wins races of all kinds.

fullmonty · 12-12-2012, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavemancan

A properly configured chasis and engine combo will kill porsche in the pockets and that should be Nissan's goal. Light weight, knimble, powerful, and bang for buck. Adding a heavy engine only makes muscle car dudes happy. Adding a powerful smaller engine wins races of all kinds.

Agreed 100%. We don't need a V8 in this car. A light powerful V6 would be great. Don't get me wrong I love V8s but I don't think I'd love one in my Z. If I had wanted a V8 car that has similar performance to our current Z I would have bought a Mustang.

12-12-2012, 03:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
SS_Firehawk Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tampa Posts: 4,142 Drives: 13' Magma Red Nismo Rep Power: 7335	I wouldn't call it a shoe string budget, it was worked in secret before upper management got wind of what was cooking.For a company the size of Mazda, I would consider it a hefty sum. It's true components of the chassis and it's design are shared with the Miata, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it the same platform, hence why the chassis designations aren't the same.. The FM platform is used on the Z, G, M, and FX vehicles. Vastly different in size to a 2500lbs Miata. Nissan is only on it's 2nd generation with the platform, it really isn't that old and would most likely prefer to have it play host to another generation of vehicles. Every vehicle using the FM platform has received very positive feedback with regards to the bones. The VQ designation is a bit long in the tooth, but the engines now only share very basic design elements with the original VQ engines. They have evolved at least once every model generation. Nissan is going to tap that thing out until it's just not competitive. It is the highest performing NA V6 on the market. Even amongst all these brand new engines, it stands above the rest in terms of performance. NVH, different matter Back the RX-8 (I really like the 09-11 redesign and came close to purchasing one). Torque is the real determining factor to when things break. Torque is the amount of force that is applied, not the actual speed of the movement (that's hp). I admit not knowing the full picture with the RX-8 drivetrain, but it really was designed around the characteristics of the Renesis engine. Take a look at how light and small components for Formula cars are! They don't make a lot of torque, but they make a lot of hp. Mazda will only overbuild it to a point, just like every other manufacturer. I don't think anyone would prefer a structurally weaker drivetrain as a cost for weight savings. That really handicaps the aftermarket community. And BTW, thank you for keeping it clean. Even if we disagree on things, I think it's irritating when someone gets butt hurt when someone else challenges their view. __________________ Old Car:GTM TSC'd 550whp / 410lbft tq @ 11.88PSI New Car: Under Construction

12-12-2012, 03:37 PM	#7 (permalink)
Dustin@Z1 The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: NLA Posts: 1,313 Drives: NLA Rep Power: 19	My concern about the next gen Z is this.... Look back at all Z's produced PRIOR to the 370Z. In all of the marketing and ads, the names were referred to as the *Z (insert favorite model). They referred to the 350Z as the 350Z and the 300ZX and the 300ZX. But look at the all of the marketing materials for the 370Z. Nissan does not refer to it as the 370Z, they instead call it just the "Z". This is not a very BIG thing, but if you pay attenion to Nissan's nomenclature. The * (300, 370, 240) indicated engine displacement. If Nissan were to release a 1.8L Turbo 4-banger (based on the Juke engine), then it would be referred to as a 180Z. This would be HUGE since it would be the first time Nissan decreased engine displacement and would not follow tradition. However, if Nissan were to install a 2.4L turbo engine and called it a 240Z, it would have puriest outraged that they are attempting to redo the classic '70s 240Z. With this said, if Nissan conveniently DROPS the *** numerical nomenclature from the title and just refers to the model as the "Z". They can stuff whatever engine they want into the chassis and most people would not care (except the Z purests). I vote Nissan breaks the mold and goes a performance oriented NA VK56-based V8. Make it the Mustang GT/ Camaro SS killer priced accordingly. This would allow it to be powered LOWER than the flagship GT-R, makes additional power, and would really excite the aftermarket with parts by having one of the first widely available V8-powered sports cars from Japan. Nissan has put a lot of effort in developing the VK56 engine both in V8 Supercars and the LeMans racing series around the world. The only missing part of the equation is stuffing it into a performance oriented street chassis. speedfreek likes this. Last edited by Dustin@Z1; 12-12-2012 at 04:00 PM.

12-14-2012, 08:37 AM	#10 (permalink)
tvfreakazoid A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: kommie kali Posts: 1,238 Drives: 2015 Audi S5; 6spd. Rep Power: 10325	If they go with a 4cyn Turbo, it will suck and wont' sound the same. Definitely no V8. The problem with nissan and the 370Z, they only do minor changes here and there while the stangs does some decent changes (not comparing the 2). Really what nissan should do with the Z and what some other people have said in this thread, is offer 2 different engines like the mustangs and cameros. Improve on the V6 and offer a 4cyn. If they do keep the V6, more than likely it will be under 400HP. Nissan or any other Asian car manufacturer seems never really up the HP that much. Not like what ford did with their mustang of 100HP increase. Never will that happen with Nissan, toyota or honda. We shall see what will happen in the next coming months. __________________ Mudders milk

12-12-2012, 04:00 PM	#12 (permalink)
SS_Firehawk Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tampa Posts: 4,142 Drives: 13' Magma Red Nismo Rep Power: 7335	Lol@Dustin. A VK56VD would really turn the Z into a beast. The two model theme can make a comeback by maintaining the VQ. That would be a serious one two punch. I would sell my Z for a VK56 powered one. I still see it as a pipe dream unfortunately. Dustin@Z1 likes this. __________________ Old Car:GTM TSC'd 550whp / 410lbft tq @ 11.88PSI New Car: Under Construction

12-12-2012, 03:31 PM	#5 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14859	Even the miata is getting a 1.3sky activ turbo. lol https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...EUjkg3KPwJ9RCw

12-12-2012, 03:32 PM	#6 (permalink)
JungleZ Banned Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: orange county,ca Posts: 652 Drives: leased base z... Rep Power: 0	Anyone driven a supercharged z4M, that thing felt like an s2k on steroids

12-12-2012, 04:22 PM	#13 (permalink)
JungleZ Banned Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: orange county,ca Posts: 652 Drives: leased base z... Rep Power: 0	I guess I'm the only who saw the jay Leno visit to Nissan where that old guy basically says we're going lighter and more gas savings in mind..