Mistubishi EVO vs 370Z

kdoske · 07-31-2009, 03:26 PM

mmmm, sammiches.....

FricFrac · 07-31-2009, 05:47 PM

mmmmm, Wifey......

armensti · 08-01-2009, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan@Forged

Have you ever driven an Evo? The car does not drive itself. If you had the same amount of power?.... This isn't a "what if" analysis, it's factual. You have to compare the 2 cars as they are. Have you driven your Z on a track? If you have been on the track with either of these cars you would find out real fast the difference between them. The Z's are not outrunning the Evos. In fact the Evos are the fastest cars in time attack right now, period. I am around these cars all day long. I like the Z on many more levels. MUCH nicer car in my opinion. However, better handling than an Evo? Not the case in any way.

its much easier for an average driver to drive a 4wd evo that has a computer telling it what to do every milli second then a rwd 370z.

i know if i was on a track right now i would be able to get a better time with an evo then a 370 but thats because im just an average driver and im not able to push a rwd car with the traction control off to its limits. But if a professional racing driver is doing the driving and its a stock 370 vs a stock evo the 370 would get a better time

EVO_Killer · 08-01-2009, 08:00 AM

All this talk makes me still want an Evo... Would love it as a project car. To bad they are stupid expensive in Canada.

Got some new toys... Check em out.

Shunya · 08-01-2009, 10:51 AM

the Jspec tails look really sexy. wonder what they look like on red

Ryan@Forged · 08-03-2009, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armensti

its much easier for an average driver to drive a 4wd evo that has a computer telling it what to do every milli second then a rwd 370z.

i know if i was on a track right now i would be able to get a better time with an evo then a 370 but thats because im just an average driver and im not able to push a rwd car with the traction control off to its limits. But if a professional racing driver is doing the driving and its a stock 370 vs a stock evo the 370 would get a better time

You really need to do your homework. Explain to me where and how a computer is telling the driver what to do in an Evo? I own 2 Evo's and have not seen this. Should I go back to the dealership and complain that my cars didn't come with this self driving software? You may want to go and drive one before you make incorrect assumptions about the car. There is nothing on the Evo that drives itself nor is there a computer that tells you what to do. I think the 370z's rev-matching feature makes it drive itself more than an Evo does.

I'll keep your assumptions about Z's being faster around the track in mind as the Evo's continue to tear up time attack events across the country.

MightyBobo · 08-03-2009, 12:30 PM

Ryan - most people here have never even been on a track before, and are stuck on the mindset that RWD will always be optimal and AWD is inferior with equal drivers behind the wheel. Let the bench racing begin.

shabarivas · 08-03-2009, 12:38 PM

Hey Ryan... i dont know if you have driven an X before but what armensti said could not be closer to the truth... there are "drive assist" computers working always in the case of the X. It modulates power to each wheel based on turn in angle and what not... the car IS helping you drive and gives you a perception of going through a turn a lot smoother and faster (it is this way all the way up to the limit of the car ... and when you pass the limit and the computers start tripping out - you get into accidents)... All he was saying is the following - w/ an AWD you get tricked into a false sense of security - but essentially the car is doing the work that the driver should be doing hence you countersteer less etc etc... w/ a RWD... you gotta do the work...your diff can only help so much.

I can honestly say... driving the evo x made me MUCH crappier at driving any other car- even my G35 when I had both. It was noticeable to the point where my friends would tell me that I used to be better at driving my G before my Evo... Now that I dont have my X anymore - im back to RWD land and they tell me that now they notice the change ... driving isnt so sloppy...

MightyBobo · 08-03-2009, 12:42 PM

So, if the EVO X has computers to modulate power being put down to the wheels....what would we call SyncroRev Matching?

Some think these things dull the driving experience. Others think there is nothing wrong with it. Its a debate that will continue forever.

Ryan@Forged · 08-03-2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shabarivas

Hey Ryan... i dont know if you have driven an X before but what armensti said could not be closer to the truth... there are "drive assist" computers working always in the case of the X. It modulates power to each wheel based on turn in angle and what not... the car IS helping you drive and gives you a perception of going through a turn a lot smoother and faster (it is this way all the way up to the limit of the car ... and when you pass the limit and the computers start tripping out - you get into accidents)... All he was saying is the following - w/ an AWD you get tricked into a false sense of security - but essentially the car is doing the work that the driver should be doing hence you countersteer less etc etc... w/ a RWD... you gotta do the work...your diff can only help so much.

I can honestly say... driving the evo x made me MUCH crappier at driving any other car- even my G35 when I had both. It was noticeable to the point where my friends would tell me that I used to be better at driving my G before my Evo... Now that I dont have my X anymore - im back to RWD land and they tell me that now they notice the change ... driving isnt so sloppy...

I have indeed driven an X and I know what you are referring to. My original argument was of the 8/9 but in the case of the X I believe you are referring to the AYC System. One of us should have clarified which model Evo was being used as my comments were originally directed for the 8/9. However, where you may have assists on the X, etc it does not modulate what the car is and is not capable of. I don't feel it drives the car for you, although I will admit I can see that point of view. The statement that lead to this entire discussion was that the "370z handles better than the Evo" So from this point of view the Evo (X in this case) with all the driver assists would still handle better than the 370z correct?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyBobo

So, if the EVO X has computers to modulate power being put down to the wheels....what would we call SyncroRev Matching?

Some think these things dull the driving experience. Others think there is nothing wrong with it. Its a debate that will continue forever.

Well said. I know countless drivers, some of them my friends, who don't know how to rev match, heel-toe, etc. Having a Rev Matching feature eliminates the need for this skill altogether. In my opinion if you don't know how to rev match you don't know how to properly drive a manual transmission. I see the rev matching feature more as driving the car for you than having computers that are calculating your pitch.

KingDavid · 08-03-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan@Forged

I have indeed driven an X and I know what you are referring to. My original argument was of the 8/9 but in the case of the X I believe you are referring to the AYC System. One of us should have clarified which model Evo was being used as my comments were originally directed for the 8/9. However, where you may have assists on the X, etc it does not modulate what the car is and is not capable of. I don't feel it drives the car for you, although I will admit I can see that point of view. The statement that lead to this entire discussion was that the "370z handles better than the Evo" So from this point of view the Evo (X in this case) with all the driver assists would still handle better than the 370z correct?

Well said. I know countless drivers, some of them my friends, who don't know how to rev match, heel-toe, etc. Having a Rev Matching feature eliminates the need for this skill altogether. In my opinion if you don't know how to rev match you don't know how to properly drive a manual transmission. I see the rev matching feature more as driving the car for you than having computers that are calculating your pitch.

If you're talking about the vehicles being stock, what tool or process would you use to measure handling?

Ryan@Forged · 08-03-2009, 03:05 PM

How about same driver around the same track? 2 equally good drivers around the same track? You can measure it however you want. 2 comparisons have been mentioned. Stock and modded, but the same mods to both cars.

However... my personal opinion (sorry not trying to pick on you OP as you have already explained your name!) is that if you make a name such as "fill in the blank killer" you need to be prepared to take on any car you are calling out in your current state regardless of what the opposing car has done. So if you are stock and say in this case the Evo is modded you can say it is not fair, but you're the one who made the name so you should be able to back it up. Just my opinion.

KingDavid · 08-03-2009, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan@Forged

How about same driver around the same track? 2 equally good drivers around the same track? You can measure it however you want. 2 comparisons have been mentioned. Stock and modded, but the same mods to both cars.

However... my personal opinion (sorry not trying to pick on you OP as you have already explained your name!) is that if you make a name such as "fill in the blank killer" you need to be prepared to take on any car you are calling out in your current state regardless of what the opposing car has done. So if you are stock and say in this case the Evo is modded you can say it is not fair, but you're the one who made the name so you should be able to back it up. Just my opinion.

I meant like lateral G's and slalom speeds. Things like that. Would that be accurate at all to show which car handles better?

I would like to be educated on the topic if you don't mind.

Ryan@Forged · 08-03-2009, 03:22 PM

On paper yes, you could do it that way. However I have found that while those tests are directly reflected to a cars handling they do not tell everything. I have always preferred track testing to see how a car performs.

shabarivas · 08-03-2009, 03:37 PM

In an average drivers hands - the X / other evos will give you more confidence to push the car harder - with a RWD car... you will have to build that confidence over time and learning... by your logic... a twin clutch is way worse than a SRM system correct? Honestly - I can revmatch all day long and heel toe till the cows come home... but there is a certain awesome feeling you get when the car does it so amazingly well that you feel it would be stupid to try and be as good as the computer can. However - this does not stop me from turning off my SRM for spirited runs where I feel I need to stay sharp for when I want to drive other cars.. but its much less of a "auto-drive" feature than the AWD systems seen in the Evos / STis

07-31-2009, 05:47 PM	#107 (permalink)
FricFrac A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Victoria, BC Posts: 1,481 Drives: 370Z 300ZX 280ZX 240 Rep Power: 228	mmmmm, Wifey...... __________________ '09 370Z - '93 300ZX Vert - '83 280ZX - '83 280ZXT -'81 280ZXT stroker - '72 240Z - Stillen CBE, HFC, G3, Grounding Kit, Sways // Swift Spring // H&R 15mm // 5% Tint // Clear Bra //

08-03-2009, 12:30 PM	#112 (permalink)
MightyBobo A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 8,465 Drives: No cars; only bikes Rep Power: 52	Ryan - most people here have never even been on a track before, and are stuck on the mindset that RWD will always be optimal and AWD is inferior with equal drivers behind the wheel. Let the bench racing begin. __________________ I don't own a car anymore.

08-03-2009, 12:42 PM	#114 (permalink)
MightyBobo A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 8,465 Drives: No cars; only bikes Rep Power: 52	So, if the EVO X has computers to modulate power being put down to the wheels....what would we call SyncroRev Matching? Some think these things dull the driving experience. Others think there is nothing wrong with it. Its a debate that will continue forever. __________________ I don't own a car anymore.

07-31-2009, 03:26 PM	#106 (permalink)
kdoske Track Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Louisiana Posts: 541 Drives: 800whp Unicorn FI Z Rep Power: 16	mmmm, sammiches.....

08-01-2009, 10:51 AM	#110 (permalink)
Shunya A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver Posts: 3,069 Drives: You Crazy! Rep Power: 22	the Jspec tails look really sexy. wonder what they look like on red

08-03-2009, 12:38 PM	#113 (permalink)
shabarivas A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,188 Drives: 370z MB 6mt Rep Power: 914	Hey Ryan... i dont know if you have driven an X before but what armensti said could not be closer to the truth... there are "drive assist" computers working always in the case of the X. It modulates power to each wheel based on turn in angle and what not... the car IS helping you drive and gives you a perception of going through a turn a lot smoother and faster (it is this way all the way up to the limit of the car ... and when you pass the limit and the computers start tripping out - you get into accidents)... All he was saying is the following - w/ an AWD you get tricked into a false sense of security - but essentially the car is doing the work that the driver should be doing hence you countersteer less etc etc... w/ a RWD... you gotta do the work...your diff can only help so much. I can honestly say... driving the evo x made me MUCH crappier at driving any other car- even my G35 when I had both. It was noticeable to the point where my friends would tell me that I used to be better at driving my G before my Evo... Now that I dont have my X anymore - im back to RWD land and they tell me that now they notice the change ... driving isnt so sloppy...

08-03-2009, 03:05 PM	#117 (permalink)
Ryan@Forged The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Marietta/Kennesaw, GA Posts: 1,527 Drives: Evo 8/Evo 9 MR/GTR Rep Power: 0	How about same driver around the same track? 2 equally good drivers around the same track? You can measure it however you want. 2 comparisons have been mentioned. Stock and modded, but the same mods to both cars. However... my personal opinion (sorry not trying to pick on you OP as you have already explained your name!) is that if you make a name such as "fill in the blank killer" you need to be prepared to take on any car you are calling out in your current state regardless of what the opposing car has done. So if you are stock and say in this case the Evo is modded you can say it is not fair, but you're the one who made the name so you should be able to back it up. Just my opinion.

08-03-2009, 03:22 PM	#119 (permalink)
Ryan@Forged The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Marietta/Kennesaw, GA Posts: 1,527 Drives: Evo 8/Evo 9 MR/GTR Rep Power: 0	On paper yes, you could do it that way. However I have found that while those tests are directly reflected to a cars handling they do not tell everything. I have always preferred track testing to see how a car performs.

08-03-2009, 03:37 PM	#120 (permalink)
shabarivas A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,188 Drives: 370z MB 6mt Rep Power: 914	In an average drivers hands - the X / other evos will give you more confidence to push the car harder - with a RWD car... you will have to build that confidence over time and learning... by your logic... a twin clutch is way worse than a SRM system correct? Honestly - I can revmatch all day long and heel toe till the cows come home... but there is a certain awesome feeling you get when the car does it so amazingly well that you feel it would be stupid to try and be as good as the computer can. However - this does not stop me from turning off my SRM for spirited runs where I feel I need to stay sharp for when I want to drive other cars.. but its much less of a "auto-drive" feature than the AWD systems seen in the Evos / STis