Fr-s/ Brz. > 370z?

kenchan · 07-02-2012, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brucelidat

The BRZ doesn't impress me looks-wise. I definitely think our Z looks better. It is a light tossable car, though. With a turbo thrown in, it'll be formidable on the track compared to our NA Zs. With boosting, though, you're probably getting into the Z's price range which I guess kind of makes it okay to compare stock vs modded. I definitely think the Z is much nicer, though. Plus, in a few months or by next year, we're probably going to see them everywhere.

bruce- honestly one should not be even comparing the BRZ to the 370Z. it's literally a poorman's Z with rear seats. as you stated, it completely defeats the purpose if one adds turbo kits and stuff to get the powerband into Z territory. by that time with similarly invested mods ($ wise), the Z would be in muscle car territory.

i think the BRZ/FRS should be compared to non-aspirated

subcompact wannabie cars.

b1adesofcha0s · 07-02-2012, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan

bruce- honestly one should not be even comparing the BRZ to the 370Z. it's literally a poorman's Z with rear seats. as you stated, it completely defeats the purpose if one adds turbo kits and stuff to get the powerband into Z territory. by that time with similarly invested mods ($ wise), the Z would be in muscle car territory.

i think the BRZ/FRS should be compared to non-aspirated

subcompact wannabie cars.

Too bad some BRZ's are selling for as much as a base Z.

Non-aspirated

shadoquad · 07-02-2012, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyBlueZ

Went with my friend to Subaru cuz we were both interested in the brz, and I would 100% say the brz is direct competition with the fr-s, seeing how the salesman spent the entire time badmouthing the fr-s lol Talking about how it handles like crap and it doesn't feel right the entire time it's driven haha

Same god damn car

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyBlueZ

The sales guys were classic though. It seems the Subarus around here are trying to create the illusion the brz is super exclusive and rare, so we were told right away they only had 3 brzs on the lot but they were all sold already, so we could look at them from outside, but not inside. Also, if we ordered one that day, we probably wouldn't even get it until JANUARY.. it's that sought after. The best part was when I asked when they'd have one for test drive the guy goes "TEST DRIVE?!? HAH! THERE ARE NO TEST DRIVES! We can't even keep 1 unsold, let alone have one for demo!" I was like "umm so everyone that buys the brz just walks in and pays for it without driving it first?" and he goes, "yeah.. because people that really KNOW cars.. people that buy the brz.. they know. They just know. No one needs a test drive. If you really want a test drive, you can get one at Scion.. they'll have tonnes of fr-s around for test drive. Just know the experience will be inferior to the brz." at which point another salesman leans over and says, "It's true.. people don't request test drives for the brz since everywhere you look the car is just being raved over and it's known fact at this point the ride is just perfect."

How does he say the car is better and then tell you to test drive the other one for impressions in the same breath? Epic fail of a salesman.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmike2780

It's going to be a while. They said the same thing about the Genesis coupe & 370z. I think they've squeezed all they can from this engine without going F.I. and I doubt you'll see much from a CAI and CBE. There's only so much bolt-on engine mods you can do.

The engine bay for the FT86 is huge. You can fit a lot under there. Time will tell.

kenchan · 07-02-2012, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1adesofcha0s

Too bad some BRZ's are selling for as much as a base Z.

Non-aspirated

dang, i thought them were like $25K.

no sense of cost savings here.

just get the 370Z then and do it right from the beginning.

shadoquad · 07-02-2012, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan

dang, i thought them were like $25K.

no sense of cost savings here.

just get the 370Z then and do it right from the beginning.

Um, base BRZ is still cheaper. It's around 26 or 27k. The Limited is 28-30. base, no-frills Z is 31-32k.

( Click to show/hide )

Cmike2780 · 07-02-2012, 12:05 PM

I like the frs/brz for what it is, but it isn't exactly 'cheap' and would much rather have an MX-5. The Z is just too different an audience to even compare the two. To get close to the performance numbers of a stock Z, you'd probably end up spending a ton more on the frs/brz.

homeryansta · 07-02-2012, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyBlueZ

Went with my friend to Subaru cuz we were both interested in the brz, and I would 100% say the brz is direct competition with the fr-s, seeing how the salesman spent the entire time badmouthing the fr-s lol Talking about how it handles like crap and it doesn't feel right the entire time it's driven haha

It was a lot smaller than I thought in person compared to pics. The Z is fine for me but I'm certain my head would hit the brz roof and I'd be quite uncomfortable in it. The rear seats are a joke, obviously. Also, some of the exterior styling is quite ugly and really cheapens the look of the car (like the sharp angled front signal lights, fender vents, or the yellow turn signal right above the front wheel well). Feels like they copied from one too many other cars and mashed them all up (the rx-8, bmws, our Zs).

However.. for the price, especially if I was still in high school and my tastes were a bit less refined.. I would probably be in love with the brz. Anyway, my friend ended up leaving Subaru with the intention of buying an sti instead

The sales guys were classic though. It seems the Subarus around here are trying to create the illusion the brz is super exclusive and rare, so we were told right away they only had 3 brzs on the lot but they were all sold already, so we could look at them from outside, but not inside. Also, if we ordered one that day, we probably wouldn't even get it until JANUARY.. it's that sought after. The best part was when I asked when they'd have one for test drive the guy goes "TEST DRIVE?!? HAH! THERE ARE NO TEST DRIVES! We can't even keep 1 unsold, let alone have one for demo!" I was like "umm so everyone that buys the brz just walks in and pays for it without driving it first?" and he goes, "yeah.. because people that really KNOW cars.. people that buy the brz.. they know. They just know. No one needs a test drive. If you really want a test drive, you can get one at Scion.. they'll have tonnes of fr-s around for test drive. Just know the experience will be inferior to the brz." at which point another salesman leans over and says, "It's true.. people don't request test drives for the brz since everywhere you look the car is just being raved over and it's known fact at this point the ride is just perfect."

this is actually true. They are sold before hitting the lot. People are lined up to buy this car.

NYBladeZ · 07-02-2012, 12:19 PM

I think the pros for the FR-S/BRZ outweigh the cons and when compared from a tuner's aspect the FR-S is the way to go. Need I remind the long time Z guys that we had to wait a very very very very long time for the Z after market to grow. Even now the aftermarket for the z34 is no where near as big as it was for the z33 and other previous Z cars and its been 3.5 years. Greddy already has a reputable TT kit out and the car hasn't been on US soil for a 6 months. The FR-S has is a tuner's wet dream, cheap starting platform (after the dealers stop pushing ridiculous ADM's) and massive competition amongst aftermarket vendors. The FR-S aftermarket is going to dwarf the Z very quickly, social media is already full of pics and concepts that major aftermarket companies are making.

Performance wise, sure the Z will dominate for now but think about how expensive it is to really build the Z34, you're looking at close to 3/4 the cost of the car for a well built and tuned TT kit, an S/C kit will run you at least 10g's. Moreover, while dyno #'s are nice making 500whp+ is useless on a road course, to date I don't think I've seen any TT member even attempt to run it all out at a road course. So you have potentially extreme HP #'s that are good for the drag strip which is not the Z's forte but create a largely uncontrollable monster at the track.

I think the biggest issue with the FR-S is that it comes off as too young but I could probably get around that knowing that the aftermarket for the FR-S is huge. Moreover, call it a gut feeling but given the proper driver a FR-S properly tuned and turboed is going to embarrass a lot of Z guys at the track.

gy954 · 07-02-2012, 12:42 PM

Amazing that people post stuff that is flat wrong, especially when the automotive press has covered these cars so extensively.

The two cars are almost identical, sheet-metal aside. (Suspensions--and hence handling characteristics--differ.) Every review I've read says the cars are woefully underpowered, but otherwise show promise, e.g., with tuner work on the existing engine or an altogether different power-plant.

Fabio88 · 07-02-2012, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan

Those are poor people that failed in life. Keep the Z.

exactly I would rather drive a prius. whats funny is i think a prius is faster then the frs and is way higher quality lol im not joking...

RyanWest · 07-02-2012, 12:49 PM

Look at the compression ratio on the FR-S, it wont handle boost well.

shadoquad · 07-02-2012, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homeryansta

this is actually true. They are sold before hitting the lot. People are lined up to buy this car.

Which is why patience is a virtue. Hot cars like this are only this hot when they first hit showrooms. Dealers can move them for MSRP, so they'll try. If you're desperate enough, they may even attempt to shove markup down your throat.

Such is the BRZ Limited. order one for your push-button start, alcantara interior, and rear spoiler, and be prepared to pay through the nose and buy without test drive.

I would never buy a car like this. I have to test drive the exact car I'm looking for. If nothing else, I'll drive it the day of delivery without a penny spent, or they can kiss my sale goodbye.

mpusch · 07-02-2012, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabio88

exactly I would rather drive a prius. whats funny is i think a prius is faster then the frs and is way higher quality lol im not joking...

0-60 for a Prius is around 10 seconds. The BRZ does it a tad over 7. Even though you said you weren't joking, I'm assuming you are

FWIW, I've seen a both the BRZ and FR-S in flesh now. I thought they looked great for what they are. One guy was on the highway doing some "pulls" and seemed to be accelerating fairly quickly, nothing that impressive though.

kenchan · 07-02-2012, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpusch

0-60 for a Prius is around 10 seconds. The BRZ does it a tad over 7.

aka slow for a sporty family car in 2012.

shadoquad · 07-02-2012, 01:09 PM

While the FRS isn't exactly fast or grunt-y compared to the Z, it does wake up quite a bit after 5000 rpm.

07-02-2012, 12:05 PM	#51 (permalink)
Cmike2780 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 5,059 Drives: slowwww Rep Power: 28	I like the frs/brz for what it is, but it isn't exactly 'cheap' and would much rather have an MX-5. The Z is just too different an audience to even compare the two. To get close to the performance numbers of a stock Z, you'd probably end up spending a ton more on the frs/brz. __________________ [09][MB][6-Spd MT][Touring][Stillen Gen III][K&N][Borla CBE][Evo-R] [ArchitTEK Photography]

07-02-2012, 12:19 PM	#53 (permalink)
NYBladeZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New York Posts: 2,158 Drives: Lotus Exige S Rep Power: 20	I think the pros for the FR-S/BRZ outweigh the cons and when compared from a tuner's aspect the FR-S is the way to go. Need I remind the long time Z guys that we had to wait a very very very very long time for the Z after market to grow. Even now the aftermarket for the z34 is no where near as big as it was for the z33 and other previous Z cars and its been 3.5 years. Greddy already has a reputable TT kit out and the car hasn't been on US soil for a 6 months. The FR-S has is a tuner's wet dream, cheap starting platform (after the dealers stop pushing ridiculous ADM's) and massive competition amongst aftermarket vendors. The FR-S aftermarket is going to dwarf the Z very quickly, social media is already full of pics and concepts that major aftermarket companies are making. Performance wise, sure the Z will dominate for now but think about how expensive it is to really build the Z34, you're looking at close to 3/4 the cost of the car for a well built and tuned TT kit, an S/C kit will run you at least 10g's. Moreover, while dyno #'s are nice making 500whp+ is useless on a road course, to date I don't think I've seen any TT member even attempt to run it all out at a road course. So you have potentially extreme HP #'s that are good for the drag strip which is not the Z's forte but create a largely uncontrollable monster at the track. I think the biggest issue with the FR-S is that it comes off as too young but I could probably get around that knowing that the aftermarket for the FR-S is huge. Moreover, call it a gut feeling but given the proper driver a FR-S properly tuned and turboed is going to embarrass a lot of Z guys at the track. __________________ 2009 Carbon Fiber/Red 370z aka Trish: Sports Package, Meisterschaft full catback, Fast Intentions Longtube Headers, Injen Long Tube Intakes, UpRev Tune: Sold 2008 Lotus Exige S Club Racer aka Bella, always leaves me smiling

07-02-2012, 12:42 PM	#54 (permalink)
gy954 Base Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Sonoma County, CA Posts: 163 Drives: 2011 370Z Rep Power: 181	Geez Amazing that people post stuff that is flat wrong, especially when the automotive press has covered these cars so extensively. The two cars are almost identical, sheet-metal aside. (Suspensions--and hence handling characteristics--differ.) Every review I've read says the cars are woefully underpowered, but otherwise show promise, e.g., with tuner work on the existing engine or an altogether different power-plant.

07-02-2012, 12:49 PM	#56 (permalink)
RyanWest Track Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Tamp, Fl Posts: 714 Drives: 2009 Nissan Rep Power: 33	Look at the compression ratio on the FR-S, it wont handle boost well.

07-02-2012, 01:09 PM	#60 (permalink)
shadoquad A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: . Posts: 42,608 Drives: . Rep Power: 3885	While the FRS isn't exactly fast or grunt-y compared to the Z, it does wake up quite a bit after 5000 rpm.