Nissan Consumer Affairs Oil Cooler Response

IDZRVIT · 06-06-2009, 08:52 AM

Nissan says/implies you can run all day with an oil temp of 279.9999999….. Above that, the car goes into limp mode. Because it’s Nissan’s warranty, they’d rather save money by protecting the engine from damage by going into limp mode than replace a damaged engine under their warranty. Lubricant technology has advanced and will always advance with improved properties of oils. Bearing materials improve also. Engine technology improves. Point is, this is not 1969 but 2009. Engines of today are not like the engines of yesteryear. Closer tolerances, improved reliability, advances in materials technology, coatings, better lubricants, etc.
So, for those still concerned about the oil temps I suggest this. Pony up a few hundred dollars each and hire a consultant such as South West Research or other firm that is internationally recognized in testing automotive lubricants. Pay for their expert opinions on your temp issue, offer up one of your cars for testing or whatever they recommend in order to present a qualified technical report on your issue. This will resolve your issue either in favour or not if the 260-280 temp is indeed a concern and that it will, beyond a doubt, cause catastrophic engine failure or premature failure of other components related to lubrication. Without concrete facts you have nothing to offer up to Nissan or the courts – law or public opinion.
Should the consultant agree with your temp issue, then present the facts to Nissan and demand that owners have their cars retrofitted with a suitable oil cooler. If Nissan doesn’t respond favourably, send the report to all the car mags, Society of Automotive Engineers and anyone else who has influence in the automotive industry. If Nissan still resists, class action suit to retrofit oil coolers.
In conclusion, get your FACTS first and then formulate the way ahead.

ChrisSlicks · 06-06-2009, 08:55 AM

I bought this car as an enthusiast, besides the regular daily driving stuff (which it does fine at) it was suggested by the magazine reviews that this would be a great HPDE car - and that is what sold it to me.

Currently the car can not be driven at HPDE - at all. This is due to the design defect that no other car in this class has. I'm not trying to turn it into a race car, just asking to be able to run for 20 minutes on track at reasonable speeds, speeds the car was built for, without having the car shutdown.

My gripe is that the car does not live up to the expectations that were projected by the car magazine reviews, because the review cars were not the same! If we attempt to correct this short coming and install the oil coolers that were present in the review models then we've voided the warranty. This is total BS. It is false advertising.

At minimum I was to be able to install an approved oil cooler, at my expense, without voiding my 5 year engine warranty. The ideal situation is that Nissan corrects their defect, and hence meets the advertised performance, and provides one for free for those that want it.

butters167 · 06-06-2009, 09:26 AM

Eventhough I haven't had any problems and don't track my car. I do agree that a little bit of false advertising was involved and that our cars should be able to handle a little track time and that nissan should let us have an approved cooler installed if needed to fix their problem.
That being said, I don't know any car maker who would knowingly honor a warranty when a car has been tracked at all even at reasonable speeds for only 20 minutes, even if this was what the car was made for. I used to race my WRX but at the time I did care about the warranty issue and was willing to deal with the consequences.

FuszNissan · 06-06-2009, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

Yeah, well with the way they're handling this, I'm not gonna spend any more money with them, on service or anything else. The 370Z is the ninth Nissan I've purchased in my life thus far. It's also probably the last, as I try not to make a habit of doing business with people or companies with deceptive/fraudulent business practices (e.g., sending out 'ringers' to the press fleet for marketing purposes). You know how people frequently come up to us new 370Z owners to ask us about our cars? Starting today, I will make a point to warn everyone who asks me about the car to stay away not only from the 370Z, but from Nissan as a company. In a nutshell, if Nissan isn't going to step up for us, I'm sure as hell not going to step up for them.

Edit: Lou, I know you're a Nissan dealer, so I just want to be clear that my remarks weren't intended as a jab towards you or anything like that. It's the parent company that has me riled up, not the dealers. (Gee, I think this role reversal is a first for me.

)

Just kidding, I understand everyone's frustration. Believe me it's hard to be a Dealer/Enthusiast and watch this go on, and not be able to get Nissan to step up on their own product. But we(the dealers) have to abide by Nissan's guidelines or we don't get reimbursed. I know I would love to fix everyone's problems, but at some point it becomes to costly for us, especailly when we are getting the support either. Semtex, you weren't out of line, no worries.

IDZRVIT · 06-06-2009, 10:47 AM

Yes, I too would like the dealer to replace all those parts that wear out too soon from off road use e.g. brakes, rotors, tires, oil, filters, etc. Where do you draw the line? Nissan and all other car manufacturer's have drawn the line at the point where beyond normal use is defined as off road use and will not be covered under warranty (if you're found out or the computer recorded data that would indicate off road use at the time of failure).

As for false advertising, the coolers were installed for the test cars because the test cars were to be used/abused on the track by the automotive journalsits. Just the same as some of the guys in here who track/race their cars and have installed coolers. It's a no brainer. Hyundai advertises their Genisis Coupe by drifting it around a closed course track. Using the same logic for advertising, should the GC owners expect their tires to last the same milage as they would under normal use? Or how about a newly licensed driver who goes to the track to do some drifting with his new, as advertised, GC and kills himself in turn one? Do his loved ones have a right to sue because the car should drift as advertised?

I too hope to get a free oil cooler from Nissan if it is proven whatever it is the group is trying to prove - potential for engine failure or false advertising or ??? Good luck - you'll need it.

butters167 · 06-06-2009, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

Edit: Lou, I know you're a Nissan dealer, so I just want to be clear that my remarks weren't intended as a jab towards you or anything like that. It's the parent company that has me riled up, not the dealers. (Gee, I think this role reversal is a first for me.

)

No offense is meant towards Lou, you have been very helpful and informative to myself and others on this forum. I know you have no control over what Nissan does.

for the record don't be surprised if future model year Zs do come with an oil cooler.

FricFrac · 06-06-2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDZRVIT

Yes, I too would like the dealer to replace all those parts that wear out too soon from off road use e.g. brakes, rotors, tires, oil, filters, etc. Where do you draw the line? Nissan and all other car manufacturer's have drawn the line at the point where beyond normal use is defined as off road use and will not be covered under warranty (if you're found out or the computer recorded data that would indicate off road use at the time of failure).

As for false advertising, the coolers were installed for the test cars because the test cars were to be used/abused on the track by the automotive journalsits. Just the same as some of the guys in here who track/race their cars and have installed coolers. It's a no brainer. Hyundai advertises their Genisis Coupe by drifting it around a closed course track. Using the same logic for advertising, should the GC owners expect their tires to last the same milage as they would under normal use? Or how about a newly licensed driver who goes to the track to do some drifting with his new, as advertised, GC and kills himself in turn one? Do his loved ones have a right to sue because the car should drift as advertised?

I too hope to get a free oil cooler from Nissan if it is proven whatever it is the group is trying to prove - potential for engine failure or false advertising or ??? Good luck - you'll need it.

I suspect there is a little disclaimer on the comercial about being a profesional driver and don't try drifting at home.... there was no disclaimer about the oil cooler supplied for the media

Most people won't have issue with the cooler. It will be the same people who actually get the 18MPG in the city and 28MPG on the highway in this car. It is actually possible to get these numbers but the car is basically a garage queen.

Personally my main frustration is that Nissan provide the car to the media with the cooler. They did this to boost sales of the car by showing what the car was capable of WITH THE COOLER. Its a work around to prevent the car from going into "safety mode". They obviously knew there was an issue or they would never have added a cooler in the first place. What's the difference in supplying a cooler as opposed to supplying stickier tires or modifying the ECU or removing the catalytic converters for better performance? Nothing - they are all cheating or deciving to increase sales and its not OK.

This has nothing to do with getting a free oil cooler. Most people could care less and have no need for it - the same as they have no need for a 3.7l engine that makes 332HP or 60-0 in just over 100 feet or 0.98 lateral G. The people who bought the car as a pen1s extension don't care if their pen1s is oil cooled.

Most people are willing to pay for the oil cooler and installation but they want to make sure Nissan won't try to pull some stunt and make an illogical statement like the oil cooler causing a problem rather than preventing one.

semtex · 06-06-2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FricFrac

I suspect there is a little disclaimer on the comercial about being a profesional driver and don't try drifting at home.... there was no disclaimer about the oil cooler supplied for the media

Most people won't have issue with the cooler. It will be the same people who actually get the 18MPG in the city and 28MPG on the highway in this car. It is actually possible to get these numbers but the car is basically a garage queen.

Personally my main frustration is that Nissan provide the car to the media with the cooler. They did this to boost sales of the car by showing what the car was capable of WITH THE COOLER. Its a work around to prevent the car from going into "safety mode". They obviously knew there was an issue or they would never have added a cooler in the first place. What's the difference in supplying a cooler as opposed to supplying stickier tires or modifying the ECU or removing the catalytic converters for better performance? Nothing - they are all cheating or deciving to increase sales and its not OK.

This has nothing to do with getting a free oil cooler. Most people could care less and have no need for it - the same as they have no need for a 3.7l engine that makes 332HP or 60-0 in just over 100 feet or 0.98 lateral G. The people who bought the car as a pen1s extension don't care if their pen1s is oil cooled.

Most people are willing to pay for the oil cooler and installation but they want to make sure Nissan won't try to pull some stunt and make an illogical statement like the oil cooler causing a problem rather than preventing one.

Very well said, and I agree 100%. I, personally, have not had an oil temp problem thus far. It's the feeling that I've been had by deceptive advertising that is getting under my skin. But I can get over that. Here's what I find harder to get over. I have no quarrel with buying my own oil cooler. In fact, I already have -- it's sitting in the garage ready to be installed the next time I do an oil change. But the idea that as soon as I install it my warranty is void doesn't sit very well with me. That's the pill I'm finding tougher to swallow.

bluzman · 06-06-2009, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

I bought this car as an enthusiast, besides the regular daily driving stuff (which it does fine at) it was suggested by the magazine reviews that this would be a great HPDE car - and that is what sold it to me.

Currently the car can not be driven at HPDE - at all. This is due to the design defect that no other car in this class has. I'm not trying to turn it into a race car, just asking to be able to run for 20 minutes on track at reasonable speeds, speeds the car was built for, without having the car shutdown.

My gripe is that the car does not live up to the expectations that were projected by the car magazine reviews, because the review cars were not the same! If we attempt to correct this short coming and install the oil coolers that were present in the review models then we've voided the warranty. This is total BS. It is false advertising.

At minimum I was to be able to install an approved oil cooler, at my expense, without voiding my 5 year engine warranty. The ideal situation is that Nissan corrects their defect, and hence meets the advertised performance, and provides one for free for those that want it.

JMO and no flame of anyone intended but this thread needs to deal with reality and not expectations, wishes, perceived problems, etc. Design defect?? - bold claim but NO proof so far. Short coming?? - maybe. As for not living up to expectations based on car magazine reviews, the content of the reviews are the responsibility of magazine, not Nissan. Modshack has it right:

Quote:

I can see this thread going on for another 50 pages with various degrees of indignation, threat and persecution being expressed.

In reality, 99% of you will never have a problem from high oil temps (real or perceived).

Nissan is not going to do anything about it as they've decided high temps are OK.

Nissan has no obligation to pay for any warranty work that may occur from the failure or interaction of a part YOU put on the car.

Quit whining and enjoy your cars

Spend <$300 and install a cooler if it's an issue for you. How to here:
http://www.the370z.com/diy-section-d...ttsa-pics.html

VCuomo · 06-06-2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSlicks

...My gripe is that the car does not live up to the expectations that were projected by the car magazine reviews, because the review cars were not the same! If we attempt to correct this short coming and install the oil coolers that were present in the review models then we've voided the warranty. This is total BS. It is false advertising...

Sorry, but this just doesn't fly. When Ford (or GM, or Chrysler) takes one of their trucks, modifies it for off-road use, and supplies it to a truck mag to try out for a few days and then (hopefully) publish a favorable review of what the truck is capable of (which they've done countless times), Ford is not saying that they will provide full warranty coverage to you if you make those same mods to your Ford truck and then use it off-road. That's the way it's always been - and Nissan is just protecting themselves like all of the other manufacturers do.

It's not BS and it's not false advertising. The car does live up to expectations - if you want to track your 370Z, put the oil cooler on it (just like the cars in the magazine reviews) and the temp problem is solved. But you might (most likely will) have to deal with warranty coverage issues. That's a trade-off and decision that you have to make, just like all of the off-road guys do. Or just like anyone else does who modifies their under-warranty vehicle...

Look, there's no doubt that, from a public relations point of view, Nissan should have handled this better. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think that any of you guys who are tracking the car, and are seeing the oil temp problem while tracking the car, have a prayer legally. Just MHO...

Now, you guys who are having temp problems under normal street-driving conditions... well, that's a whole different ball game.

ChrisSlicks - I'm not trying to single you out by quoting you above; it's just that what you wrote nicely summarizes what a number of the "track" guys have been saying...

dszombiex · 06-06-2009, 08:24 PM

I don't think the point is that anyone wants to take legal action against Nissan because they went to the track and the car went into limp mode.
And I personally don't want a free oil cooler from them.

I think the point is that if any of us have an oil cooler installed and then some time down the road have a random failure/breakdown (as is inevitable with cars), Nissan doesn't then go say "Whoops, the *insert random failure* happened because you have an oil cooler installed! Give us lots of money to fix it!".

Does this really seem unreasonable? This is just Nissan being opportunistic and trying to mitigate warranty costs by pushing them on to the customer...

frost · 06-06-2009, 08:36 PM

^ doesn't that seem like it will work in reverse however, when those of us in warm weather are sending our cars back under state lemon laws? I mean, I'm a little rusty, but I believe if it overheats 4 times without it being fixed, it would be considered a lemon here.

VCuomo · 06-06-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frost

^ doesn't that seem like it will work in reverse however, when those of us in warm weather are sending our cars back under state lemon laws? I mean, I'm a little rusty, but I believe if it overheats 4 times without it being fixed, it would be considered a lemon here.

In CA, as you state, Nissan gets 4 tries to fix the problem and then the car can be declared a lemon. But, that's for failures under "normal use", not track use.

VCuomo · 06-06-2009, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dszombiex

I don't think the point is that anyone wants to take legal action against Nissan because they went to the track and the car went into limp mode.

A number of people have stated that they want to take legal action, including a class action lawsuit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dszombiex

I think the point is that if any of us have an oil cooler installed and then some time down the road have a random failure/breakdown (as is inevitable with cars), Nissan doesn't then go say "Whoops, the *insert random failure* happened because you have an oil cooler installed! Give us lots of money to fix it!".

Does this really seem unreasonable? This is just Nissan being opportunistic and trying to mitigate warranty costs by pushing them on to the customer...

Under federal law, Nissan cannot void the entire vehicle warranty if an oil cooler is installed.

If you have a tranny problem I doubt that Nissan will try to blame that on an oil cooler. Even many engine problems, such as an ignition problem, could not be blamed on an oil cooler being installed. But there are many problems that most certainly will be blamed on the oil cooler - and that's what you should expect.

ChrisSlicks · 06-06-2009, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VCuomo

In fact, if you have a tranny problem I doubt that Nissan will blame that on an oil cooler either. Even many engine problems, such as an ignition problem, could not be blamed on an oil cooler being installed. But there are many problems that most certainly will be blamed on the oil cooler - and that's what you should expect.

I wouldn't count on that. They are looking for any excuse to deny an expensive warranty claim, and they know because you have an oil cooler that you must drive the car hard and more than likely hit the track once in a while. They will do searches on your name and plate, looking for evidence that you were at the track even if the failure had nothing to do with that. Remember there are only 2 parts in this car that are worth warrantying, the engine and the transmission. Any claim against these parts is highly scrutinized.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
oil cooler option?	racerxj17	STILLEN	16	08-31-2009 08:55 PM
Oil Cooler Placement	ResIpsa	Engine & Drivetrain	6	05-07-2009 08:57 PM
Oil cooler	Zeto	STILLEN	6	04-20-2009 07:08 PM
Nissan 370Z Review from Consumer Guide 01.02.09	AK370Z	Nissan 370Z General Discussions	0	01-03-2009 05:34 AM

06-06-2009, 08:52 AM	#76 (permalink)
IDZRVIT A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Halifax Posts: 1,659 Drives: '13 CTS-V, '76 Vette Rep Power: 26	Nissan says/implies you can run all day with an oil temp of 279.9999999….. Above that, the car goes into limp mode. Because it’s Nissan’s warranty, they’d rather save money by protecting the engine from damage by going into limp mode than replace a damaged engine under their warranty. Lubricant technology has advanced and will always advance with improved properties of oils. Bearing materials improve also. Engine technology improves. Point is, this is not 1969 but 2009. Engines of today are not like the engines of yesteryear. Closer tolerances, improved reliability, advances in materials technology, coatings, better lubricants, etc. So, for those still concerned about the oil temps I suggest this. Pony up a few hundred dollars each and hire a consultant such as South West Research or other firm that is internationally recognized in testing automotive lubricants. Pay for their expert opinions on your temp issue, offer up one of your cars for testing or whatever they recommend in order to present a qualified technical report on your issue. This will resolve your issue either in favour or not if the 260-280 temp is indeed a concern and that it will, beyond a doubt, cause catastrophic engine failure or premature failure of other components related to lubrication. Without concrete facts you have nothing to offer up to Nissan or the courts – law or public opinion. Should the consultant agree with your temp issue, then present the facts to Nissan and demand that owners have their cars retrofitted with a suitable oil cooler. If Nissan doesn’t respond favourably, send the report to all the car mags, Society of Automotive Engineers and anyone else who has influence in the automotive industry. If Nissan still resists, class action suit to retrofit oil coolers. In conclusion, get your FACTS first and then formulate the way ahead.

06-06-2009, 08:55 AM	#77 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 653	I bought this car as an enthusiast, besides the regular daily driving stuff (which it does fine at) it was suggested by the magazine reviews that this would be a great HPDE car - and that is what sold it to me. Currently the car can not be driven at HPDE - at all. This is due to the design defect that no other car in this class has. I'm not trying to turn it into a race car, just asking to be able to run for 20 minutes on track at reasonable speeds, speeds the car was built for, without having the car shutdown. My gripe is that the car does not live up to the expectations that were projected by the car magazine reviews, because the review cars were not the same! If we attempt to correct this short coming and install the oil coolers that were present in the review models then we've voided the warranty. This is total BS. It is false advertising. At minimum I was to be able to install an approved oil cooler, at my expense, without voiding my 5 year engine warranty. The ideal situation is that Nissan corrects their defect, and hence meets the advertised performance, and provides one for free for those that want it.

06-06-2009, 09:26 AM	#78 (permalink)
butters167 Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 59 Drives: 6sp 370Z sport pkg Rep Power: 15	Eventhough I haven't had any problems and don't track my car. I do agree that a little bit of false advertising was involved and that our cars should be able to handle a little track time and that nissan should let us have an approved cooler installed if needed to fix their problem. That being said, I don't know any car maker who would knowingly honor a warranty when a car has been tracked at all even at reasonable speeds for only 20 minutes, even if this was what the car was made for. I used to race my WRX but at the time I did care about the warranty issue and was willing to deal with the consequences.

06-06-2009, 10:47 AM	#80 (permalink)
IDZRVIT A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Halifax Posts: 1,659 Drives: '13 CTS-V, '76 Vette Rep Power: 26	Yes, I too would like the dealer to replace all those parts that wear out too soon from off road use e.g. brakes, rotors, tires, oil, filters, etc. Where do you draw the line? Nissan and all other car manufacturer's have drawn the line at the point where beyond normal use is defined as off road use and will not be covered under warranty (if you're found out or the computer recorded data that would indicate off road use at the time of failure). As for false advertising, the coolers were installed for the test cars because the test cars were to be used/abused on the track by the automotive journalsits. Just the same as some of the guys in here who track/race their cars and have installed coolers. It's a no brainer. Hyundai advertises their Genisis Coupe by drifting it around a closed course track. Using the same logic for advertising, should the GC owners expect their tires to last the same milage as they would under normal use? Or how about a newly licensed driver who goes to the track to do some drifting with his new, as advertised, GC and kills himself in turn one? Do his loved ones have a right to sue because the car should drift as advertised? I too hope to get a free oil cooler from Nissan if it is proven whatever it is the group is trying to prove - potential for engine failure or false advertising or ??? Good luck - you'll need it.

06-06-2009, 08:24 PM	#86 (permalink)
dszombiex Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 230 Drives: 09 370z MB 7AT Rep Power: 373	I don't think the point is that anyone wants to take legal action against Nissan because they went to the track and the car went into limp mode. And I personally don't want a free oil cooler from them. I think the point is that if any of us have an oil cooler installed and then some time down the road have a random failure/breakdown (as is inevitable with cars), Nissan doesn't then go say "Whoops, the insert random failure happened because you have an oil cooler installed! Give us lots of money to fix it!". Does this really seem unreasonable? This is just Nissan being opportunistic and trying to mitigate warranty costs by pushing them on to the customer...

06-06-2009, 08:36 PM	#87 (permalink)
frost Retired admin Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Winterfell Posts: 106,613 Drives: Your Wife Crazy Rep Power: 0	^ doesn't that seem like it will work in reverse however, when those of us in warm weather are sending our cars back under state lemon laws? I mean, I'm a little rusty, but I believe if it overheats 4 times without it being fixed, it would be considered a lemon here.