Nissan Consumer Affairs Oil Cooler Response

kannibul · 06-11-2009, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by butters167

While I was at work this morning I decided to read my warranty book again. It clearly states in Nissan's own writing something is not covered if it is directly resulting from misuse, alteration, non-approved parts, etc. So they admit in the warranty book that it must be proven that the action or part in question caused the problem for the problem not to be covered. Of course the actual cooler or what ever other part won't be covered unless it is Nissan approved.

With that said this is the reason I always keep my stock parts. If a serious warranty issue occurs I can always put the factory parts back on the affected area or remove the questionable part before taking it in.

I do agree with 6MT in the fact that until someone actually has a serious problem resulting from the high oil temps., there really isn't any legal ground to stand on with this issue. While I'm not a civil lawyer, I have spent plenty of hours in court as a police officer dealing with the legal system and the principle is the same. A precedent must be set before it can be challenged. If someone actually has oil temp related damage and Nissan drags their heels on it then we have something to go on.

Either way we shouldn't have to deal with this issue in the first place. Nissan should quit being a

and retro fit every 370z with an oil cooler.

My bet:

Nissan's position on it could be that the car does not require a better oil cooler, that "limp-mode" is there to protect the engine in the event that it is from "misuse".

Nissan could say that changing the oil cooler indicates extensive misuse...

khtso · 06-05-2009, 02:56 PM

There is very little legal ground here for any case against Nissan. This car is designed for street use. The car performs as such. If there's a heating issue while street driving, Nissan installed the limp mode to protect the engine. If you somehow destroy the engine prematurely during the warranty period during street use, Nissan will replace the engine. If you decide to add an aftermarket product to your car, if that screws up the car, Nissan won't honor the warranty.

The way to proceed here would be to make it a purely PR issue. Raise a fuss. Make a stink. Call up all the car magazines and television shows. If it gets published in all magazines that the 370Z sucks on the track because it goes into limp mode after 1 lap around a track, people will stop buying it and Nissan will have to address the issue.

wstar · 06-05-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khtso

If you somehow destroy the engine prematurely during the warranty period during street use, Nissan will replace the engine. If you decide to add an aftermarket product to your car, if that screws up the car, Nissan won't honor the warranty.

This is the scary gray area. I totally understand that if I install an aftermarket cooler, and it blows an oil line, loses pressure, and destroys the engine before I notice and shut it down, that's not a warranty repair for Nissan. What I'm afraid of is when I install an oil cooler, and something goes wrong with my VVEL 10K miles later due to a factory defect that has nothing to do with oil temps, and they deny the claim because an oil cooler was attached to the engine.

butters167 · 06-05-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

What I'm afraid of is when I install an oil cooler, and something goes wrong with my VVEL 10K miles later due to a factory defect that has nothing to do with oil temps, and they deny the claim because an oil cooler was attached to the engine.

Like we've said I think nissan will have a hard time denying a factory defect that has nothing to do with the oil, oil temp, or oil cooler just because an oil cooler is installed.
Either way if that does happen just take an hour and remove it before you take it in. I know the computer can be checked to tell if some mods have been done or if the car has been driven hard but I don't think they can prove you had an oil cooler on if you remove everything.

NotmyGTR · 06-05-2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by butters167

Like we've said I think nissan will have a hard time denying a factory defect that has nothing to do with the oil, oil temp, or oil cooler just because an oil cooler is installed.
Either way if that does happen just take an hour and remove it before you take it in. I know the computer can be checked to tell if some mods have been done or if the car has been driven hard but I don't think they can prove you had an oil cooler on if you remove everything.

CPU can not be checked on the Z. The tell tale black box is only on the R35 GTR, and not on the Z. As far as the cpu being checked, there is nothing to check, unless you get it tuned to change you fuel and air mixture. But thats not really necessary unless you add larger injectors and a turbo or two.

khtso · 06-05-2009, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

This is the scary gray area. I totally understand that if I install an aftermarket cooler, and it blows an oil line, loses pressure, and destroys the engine before I notice and shut it down, that's not a warranty repair for Nissan. What I'm afraid of is when I install an oil cooler, and something goes wrong with my VVEL 10K miles later due to a factory defect that has nothing to do with oil temps, and they deny the claim because an oil cooler was attached to the engine.

Now that could be a potential legal claim. It would, however, be an uphill battle. If you install oil cooler and engine fails and they won't honor your warranty, you can then make a claim against them to get them to fix it. You would, however, have to prove that the oil cooler did not cause the problem. Nissan obviously has a billion lawyers and engineers and experts that they would put up there to state that yes, of course it was the oil cooler that caused all your problems. Then again, with a company that size they'll offer a settlement by fixing your car, but have some sort of non-disclosure agreement in place. Either way, unless and until there is some measurable harm to you, there's no point in threatening to sue.

Let's all sign petitions and mail them to Nissan. In addition, get everyone on the messageboard who have had issues both on the track and off, along with any definitive statements (in writing) made my Nissan, and mail them off to every Auto reviewer in the country.

butters167 · 06-05-2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khtso

Let's all sign petitions and mail them to Nissan. In addition, get everyone on the messageboard who have had issues both on the track and off, along with any definitive statements (in writing) made my Nissan, and mail them off to every Auto reviewer in the country.

I agree and lets boycott the service departments for maint. I do my own maint. anyway but we shouldn't give them anymore of our money until they learn a little more about customer relations.

SiXK · 06-05-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khtso

The way to proceed here would be to make it a purely PR issue. Raise a fuss. Make a stink. Call up all the car magazines and television shows. If it gets published in all magazines that the 370Z sucks on the track because it goes into limp mode after 1 lap around a track, people will stop buying it and Nissan will have to address the issue.

I think you are 100% correct here. Some well written letters to the car magazines that tested the oil-cooler equipped cars would probabaly be published, and the magazines would probably go to Nissan for a comment on why they equipped press cars with oil coolers but will not allow them on customers cars.

frost · 06-05-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

Yeah, well with the way they're handling this, I'm not gonna spend any more money with them, on service or anything else. The 370Z is the ninth Nissan I've purchased in my life thus far. It's also probably the last, as I try not to make a habit of doing business with people or companies with deceptive/fraudulent business practices (e.g., sending out 'ringers' to the press fleet for marketing purposes). You know how people frequently come up to us new 370Z owners to ask us about our cars? Starting today, I will make a point to warn everyone who asks me about the car to stay away not only from the 370Z, but from Nissan as a company. In a nutshell, if Nissan isn't going to step up for us, I'm sure as hell not going to step up for them.

Agreed. To me, what's upsetting is not that the car has an issue, it's that they won't even let us fix it.

Wally · 06-05-2009, 03:09 PM

I say we keep up the PR campaign and thanks for the advice, headed out for the weekend for a track event, and no the 370 will not be put on the track, maybe I should take the wifes Hyundai it may not be the fastest but at least it can go for 20 minutes.

Wally · 06-05-2009, 03:15 PM

For those of you that have not seen temps above 225 take the car out drive 70 to 75 in 5th gear for about 20 minutes with a few spirited revs and watch the temp climb,

butters167 · 06-05-2009, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

For those of you that have not seen temps above 225 take the car out drive 70 to 75 in 5th gear for about 20 minutes with a few spirited revs and watch the temp climb,

I have been on some spirited drives and the temp did jump up to 225 pretty fast but didn't go higher, guess I'm lucky so far.

No offense but why would I drive 75 in 5th for 20 minutes straight, if I'm going to be going 75 for that long I would have shifted into 6th about 19 minutes ago that's what it's for. I guess I would if I wanted to test the temp. issue but I try not to push an issue unless it happens on its own.

wstar · 06-05-2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by butters167

I have been on some spirited drives and the temp did jump up to 225 pretty fast but didn't go higher, guess I'm lucky so far.

No offense but why would I drive 75 in 5th for 20 minutes straight, if I'm going to be going 75 for that long I would have shifted into 6th about 19 minutes ago that's what it's for. I guess I would if I wanted to test the temp. issue but I try not to push an issue unless it happens on its own.

I'm with you on this. I've intentionally pushed mine to 260 on the street by staying in a higher gear than necessary while cruising on the highway for a while, but I've never had 260 "just happen" to me when I'm driving like I always do (which is pretty damned aggresive a lot of the time, but on the street there are always limitations, like safety issues, other cars, poor pavement quality in areas, likely speed trap areas, etc). The 6MT guys seem to be slightly worse off perhaps, and we haven't yet seen the worst heat of the summer, those are other factors. But still, I'm not sure that anything that could be defined as reasonable street driving is going to limp-mode this car (which is 280+ if I understand correctly for the first limp mode, which I've never hit). Maybe guys driving in the middle of the desert in august aggressively will see it, but not most of us.

semtex · 06-05-2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

I say we keep up the PR campaign and thanks for the advice, headed out for the weekend for a track event, and no the 370 will not be put on the track, maybe I should take the wifes Hyundai it may not be the fastest but at least it can go for 20 minutes.

Speaking of PR -- this could be a coup for a competitor. Take Hyundai, for example. Start a commercial showing a clock about to hit 5pm, with the narrator saying something like: "At Hyundai, we enjoy playing with the other kids on the block at the end of the day." Then the minute hand ticks over to 5pm, they pan to a 370Z and Genesis Coupe carving up some mountain roads, tails hanging out around curves, etc., just two drivers having a blast. Then the narrator says: "Unfortunately, some kids have early curfews." Immediately pan to a shot of the Z coasting in limp-mode, then pan to a shot of the oil temp gauge pegged at 280, and the Z's clock reading 5:20.

spearfish25 · 06-05-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

Speaking of PR -- this could be a coup for a competitor. Take Hyundai, for example. Start a commercial showing a clock about to hit 5pm, with the narrator saying something like: "At Hyundai, we enjoy playing with the other kids on the block at the end of the day." Then the minute hand ticks over to 5pm, they pan to a 370Z and Genesis Coupe carving up some mountain roads, tails hanging out around curves, etc., just two drivers having a blast. Then the narrator says: "Unfortunately, some kids have early curfews." Immediately pan to a shot of the Z coasting in limp-mode, then pan to a shot of the oil temp gauge pegged at 280, and the Z's clock reading 5:20.

I love it. I'm writing a letter to my three top car mags tonight. While I've enjoyed the great reviews of my car, it's time to let Nissan know they have to please their consumers...they can't have their cake and eat it too (neglect to install a cooler but then not allow us to install one). The quality control engineer who I spoke with was quite frustrated about the negative PR they had gotten and that was 3 weeks ago. Clearly, this will be the way to fight the battle from here on out.

Yes, 95% of the time my car is fine on the street. The other 5% of street driving is hot but no limp mode. It's not the dead of summer yet, but it's coming. My one track experience was limited by engine temps all day while all the other production cars on the track had no problems. It's downright embarrassing...it's only fair Nissan gets to answer for their enthusiast sportscar that can only perform under grocery store run conditions.

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06-05-2009, 02:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
khtso Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 59 Drives: 2009 370Z Rep Power: 17	There is very little legal ground here for any case against Nissan. This car is designed for street use. The car performs as such. If there's a heating issue while street driving, Nissan installed the limp mode to protect the engine. If you somehow destroy the engine prematurely during the warranty period during street use, Nissan will replace the engine. If you decide to add an aftermarket product to your car, if that screws up the car, Nissan won't honor the warranty. The way to proceed here would be to make it a purely PR issue. Raise a fuss. Make a stink. Call up all the car magazines and television shows. If it gets published in all magazines that the 370Z sucks on the track because it goes into limp mode after 1 lap around a track, people will stop buying it and Nissan will have to address the issue.

06-05-2009, 03:09 PM	#10 (permalink)
Wally Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Austin Posts: 32 Drives: 370Z, Sport Package Rep Power: 17	I say we keep up the PR campaign and thanks for the advice, headed out for the weekend for a track event, and no the 370 will not be put on the track, maybe I should take the wifes Hyundai it may not be the fastest but at least it can go for 20 minutes.

06-05-2009, 03:15 PM	#11 (permalink)
Wally Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Austin Posts: 32 Drives: 370Z, Sport Package Rep Power: 17	For those of you that have not seen temps above 225 take the car out drive 70 to 75 in 5th gear for about 20 minutes with a few spirited revs and watch the temp climb,