Oil Temp Survey

Zsteve · 03-26-2010, 11:04 AM

well I will do the DIY and save some money. $240 for all the parts and I can use the post car care center to put it on. Its on order as we speak, I went with a 12 row cooler as I dont want to have the issue some are having with it not warming up enough in the winter and they have to block some of the cooler, so I went with 12 rows and that should prevent that and still keep my temps down for spirited street use.

FuszNissan · 03-26-2010, 02:11 PM

Honestly I don't think a 12 row is necessary

semtex · 03-26-2010, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuszNissan

Honestly I don't think a 12 row is necessary

You mean not necessary to go that small? Because 12 is pretty small. The 'regular' size is 19 row.

370Zsteve · 03-26-2010, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

You mean not necessary to go that small? Because 12 is pretty small. The 'regular' size is 19 row.

Zsteve · 03-26-2010, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Zsteve

yea I didnt want to go 19 cuz some guys in the winter have to cover part of the cooler so as to let the oil get hot so I figured a little smaller and I wont have to do that and it will still keep the temps down to a respectable level as I will never run on a track other than a 1/4 mile once or twice.

semtex · 03-26-2010, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 370Zsteve

No no, no ownage.

I think what Zsteve is trying to say is that he wants to go with a smaller than normal cooler to avoid having issues with bringing the oil up to temp in the winter, and Lou is saying it's not necessary.

If I'm reading this right, then I agree with Lou. Zsteve, I was really worried this winter because of how long it'd take my oil to come up to temp. In fact, some mornings it'd never come up to 180 because I was short-tripping. The big worry is hydrolysis, which means water in the oil. That's what happens when your oil fails to run at a high enough temperature. Water in the oil can cause internal corrosion, etc. Well, I was running Redline, and I recently did an oil change and sent it off for UOA. The UOA came back reporting 0.0% water. So I think you can run a normal-sized cooler and not have to worry about hydrolysis -- as long as you're using a good quality synthetic like Redline. If you're using a conventional oil, then the risk of hydrolysis due to low oil temp is probably significantly higher.

semtex · 03-26-2010, 02:33 PM

Here's a link to my UOA if you're interested. http://www.the370z.com/members/semte...0-uoa-9000.jpg

Zsteve · 03-26-2010, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

No no, no ownage.

I think what Zsteve is trying to say is that he wants to go with a smaller than normal cooler to avoid having issues with bringing the oil up to temp in the winter, and Lou is saying it's not necessary.

If I'm reading this right, then I agree with Lou. Zsteve, I was really worried this winter because of how long it'd take my oil to come up to temp. In fact, some mornings it'd never come up to 180 because I was short-tripping. The big worry is hydrolysis, which means water in the oil. That's what happens when your oil fails to run at a high enough temperature. Water in the oil can cause internal corrosion, etc. Well, I was running Redline, and I recently did an oil change and sent it off for UOA. The UOA came back reporting 0.0% water. So I think you can run a normal-sized cooler and not have to worry about hydrolysis -- as long as you're using a good quality synthetic like Redline. If you're using a conventional oil, then the risk of hydrolysis due to low oil temp is probably significantly higher.

But the smaller one should still be good enough to keep the temps down right?

semtex · 03-26-2010, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsteve

But the smaller one should still be good enough to keep the temps down right?

Well, even with my 19-row I can get it up to 200-210 if I hit stop and go traffic. That's in GA, and I haven't experienced Summer with my oil cooler yet (I only put it on in Oct.). Once Summer hits, I wouldn't be surprised to see 230 if I start driving hard or get stuck in traffic. And you're in Texas. It gets even hotter there than in GA, if I'm not mistaken. Honestly, I'd just go with the regular 19-row if I were in your position.

Modshack · 03-26-2010, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsteve

But the smaller one should still be good enough to keep the temps down right?

I think you'll be fine...I blanked off mine this winter leaving 12-13 rows clear and it was just fine in temps from 30 to 65+. A 12 row will just take the edge off in the summer which is all you are looking for..

labk888 · 03-26-2010, 05:09 PM

DOH... disregard.. just found this.

DIY: Oil Pan Spacer

What about an oil pan spacer. Wouldn't that help with cooling somewhat? Has anyone installed one yet on their 370z?

2009+ Nissan 370z VQ37VHR JWT Oil Pan Spacer Kit

6MT · 03-26-2010, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by labk888

What about an oil pan spacer. Wouldn't that help with cooling somewhat? Has anyone installed one yet on their 370z?

2009+ Nissan 370z VQ37VHR JWT Oil Pan Spacer Kit

Yes, just use the search function.

FricFrac · 03-27-2010, 05:02 PM

Interesting information about the bearings and I suspect it is fairly accurate - I can attest to the incredible durability of the L series engines.

Its important to keep a few things in perspective. Nissan is excellent at engineering performance cars - the Z car is the most sucessful sports car line in the world due to the price/perfomance that Nissan has established. When it wasn't viable they stoped producing sports cars.

Motor oils - like pretty much any engineered product - has a tolerance or range at which it can be opperated under. Synthetic oils are typically good up to around 300F but check with your manufacture before you start freaking out.

From what I've heard there hasn't been any issues with previous Nissan engines and their bearings..... even those with "green" bearings.

Its this simple. The 370Z is designed as a high performance sports car. It is capable in every way for daily use and there are very few if anyone who has heating issues driving the car normally around town. If you do I'm pretty sure Nissan will resolve the issue with your engine if its abnormally overheating.

If you choose to push your vehicle beyond normal daily use (which it is more than capable of) your car has been engineered to provide protection to the engine by detecting higher than normal temperatures. You never have to second guess if the car was over heating or how long an abnormal temperature was before you detected it. Its a fantastic feature.

If you want to take your car to a race track (unlikely it will overheat in a short course like an auto-x) you simply need to add an oil cooler. This is a modern engine which sprays oil on the bottom of the pistons to increase cooling because of the high compression in these engines. Oil not only acts as a lubricant but also as a coolant. Very few owners push their cars to these limits so Nissan wisely decided to spend the money on the performance, reliability and capability of the car in other areas that would benifit everyone - not just the track enthusiest.

Some will say well I'd happily pay $500 for the extra performance out of the box. Then go for it - there is no need to whine about it. Those who don't need it (the vast majority) just saved themselves $500+. The VQ has been out for over 20 years - the closer cousin to the VQ37 the VQ35 for at least seven and even our engine has been out for almost three years. Haven't heard of any recalls or other major issues - in fact surprisingly few.

The only real issue here is a lack of Nissan coming up to the plate and saying there will be no warranty issues if you install your own oil cooler but on the other hand if they can't prove that the oil cooler caused the problem then they are obligated to upholding the warranty.

IDZRVIT · 03-27-2010, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

No no, no ownage.

I think what Zsteve is trying to say is that he wants to go with a smaller than normal cooler to avoid having issues with bringing the oil up to temp in the winter, and Lou is saying it's not necessary.

If I'm reading this right, then I agree with Lou. Zsteve, I was really worried this winter because of how long it'd take my oil to come up to temp. In fact, some mornings it'd never come up to 180 because I was short-tripping. The big worry is hydrolysis, which means water in the oil. That's what happens when your oil fails to run at a high enough temperature. Water in the oil can cause internal corrosion, etc. Well, I was running Redline, and I recently did an oil change and sent it off for UOA. The UOA came back reporting 0.0% water. So I think you can run a normal-sized cooler and not have to worry about hydrolysis -- as long as you're using a good quality synthetic like Redline. If you're using a conventional oil, then the risk of hydrolysis due to low oil temp is probably significantly higher.

Maybe you need an oil "heater" for the winter season. Read this:

""Some experts estimate that the wear on the rings of an internal combustion engine is as high as 0.001" per 1000 miles of operation when the oil temperature is below 170 degrees F. If the maximum allowable wear is 0.006", how long can you run your engine when the oil temperature is below 170 degrees before you wear it out?" (A 6-to-1 engine-to-wheel reduction ratio, an average running speed of 3000 rpm, and 14-inch wheels 28 inches in diameter are assumed.)"

Anyway, oil temperature is not consistent throughout the engine. I would guess the oil draining/flung back from the underside of the pistons (this engine has piston cooling) is a lot hotter than 280 deg. Also, oil draining back from the surface of the block is no lower than say the temperture of the engine coolant of say 190-200 deg. That said, it's obvious the oil drains back to the base pan where the different temperatures mix to reach a resultant temperature before being pulled into the oil pump. Anyone know the exact location of the oil temp sensor? Maybe it's located in an area where there is hotter oil?

IDZRVIT · 03-27-2010, 06:50 PM

Answer:

"The engine would be technically worn out after just 144 hours of cold operation. Realistically though, those 144 hours represent an awful lot of cold starts."

03-26-2010, 11:04 AM	#91 (permalink)
Zsteve A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: TX Posts: 3,298 Drives: the 2 balled club Rep Power: 21	well I will do the DIY and save some money. $240 for all the parts and I can use the post car care center to put it on. Its on order as we speak, I went with a 12 row cooler as I dont want to have the issue some are having with it not warming up enough in the winter and they have to block some of the cooler, so I went with 12 rows and that should prevent that and still keep my temps down for spirited street use. __________________ 2010 LS3 C6 Silver coupe corvette

03-26-2010, 02:11 PM	#92 (permalink)
FuszNissan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: St. Louis Posts: 14,275 Drives: Pure Sex Rep Power: 541	Honestly I don't think a 12 row is necessary __________________ Mods: Too Many to list! LouFuszNissan ZDAYZ 2012

03-26-2010, 02:33 PM	#97 (permalink)
semtex A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Behind enemy lines Age: 53 Posts: 5,995 Drives: People to drink Rep Power: 32	Here's a link to my UOA if you're interested. http://www.the370z.com/members/semte...0-uoa-9000.jpg __________________ "There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna 316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) \| 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10) Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

03-26-2010, 05:09 PM	#101 (permalink)
labk888 Base Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Big D Posts: 233 Drives: '10 370Z PW 6MT T&S Rep Power: 532	DOH... disregard.. just found this. DIY: Oil Pan Spacer What about an oil pan spacer. Wouldn't that help with cooling somewhat? Has anyone installed one yet on their 370z? 2009+ Nissan 370z VQ37VHR JWT Oil Pan Spacer Kit Last edited by labk888; 03-26-2010 at 05:35 PM.

03-27-2010, 05:02 PM	#103 (permalink)
FricFrac A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Victoria, BC Posts: 1,481 Drives: 370Z 300ZX 280ZX 240 Rep Power: 228	Interesting information about the bearings and I suspect it is fairly accurate - I can attest to the incredible durability of the L series engines. Its important to keep a few things in perspective. Nissan is excellent at engineering performance cars - the Z car is the most sucessful sports car line in the world due to the price/perfomance that Nissan has established. When it wasn't viable they stoped producing sports cars. Motor oils - like pretty much any engineered product - has a tolerance or range at which it can be opperated under. Synthetic oils are typically good up to around 300F but check with your manufacture before you start freaking out. From what I've heard there hasn't been any issues with previous Nissan engines and their bearings..... even those with "green" bearings. Its this simple. The 370Z is designed as a high performance sports car. It is capable in every way for daily use and there are very few if anyone who has heating issues driving the car normally around town. If you do I'm pretty sure Nissan will resolve the issue with your engine if its abnormally overheating. If you choose to push your vehicle beyond normal daily use (which it is more than capable of) your car has been engineered to provide protection to the engine by detecting higher than normal temperatures. You never have to second guess if the car was over heating or how long an abnormal temperature was before you detected it. Its a fantastic feature. If you want to take your car to a race track (unlikely it will overheat in a short course like an auto-x) you simply need to add an oil cooler. This is a modern engine which sprays oil on the bottom of the pistons to increase cooling because of the high compression in these engines. Oil not only acts as a lubricant but also as a coolant. Very few owners push their cars to these limits so Nissan wisely decided to spend the money on the performance, reliability and capability of the car in other areas that would benifit everyone - not just the track enthusiest. Some will say well I'd happily pay $500 for the extra performance out of the box. Then go for it - there is no need to whine about it. Those who don't need it (the vast majority) just saved themselves $500+. The VQ has been out for over 20 years - the closer cousin to the VQ37 the VQ35 for at least seven and even our engine has been out for almost three years. Haven't heard of any recalls or other major issues - in fact surprisingly few. The only real issue here is a lack of Nissan coming up to the plate and saying there will be no warranty issues if you install your own oil cooler but on the other hand if they can't prove that the oil cooler caused the problem then they are obligated to upholding the warranty. __________________ '09 370Z - '93 300ZX Vert - '83 280ZX - '83 280ZXT -'81 280ZXT stroker - '72 240Z - Stillen CBE, HFC, G3, Grounding Kit, Sways // Swift Spring // H&R 15mm // 5% Tint // Clear Bra //

03-27-2010, 06:50 PM	#105 (permalink)
IDZRVIT A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Halifax Posts: 1,659 Drives: '13 CTS-V, '76 Vette Rep Power: 26	Answer: "The engine would be technically worn out after just 144 hours of cold operation. Realistically though, those 144 hours represent an awful lot of cold starts." __________________ "America.... still builds rockets!" Vette: 355 cid, 400 rwhp '13 CTS-V Coupe: 6.2L LSA, 556HP

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