Has VDC made you a worse Z driver?

shadoquad · 08-16-2010, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow2k

You must be in a pee wee league if you're only getting 10pts a kid...

nice

CBRich · 08-15-2010, 10:43 AM

KP Technologies for all your turn it off, I wanna drive like an idiot and it doesn't let me SUPER DORIFTO needs.

nismolife · 08-15-2010, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBRich

KP Technologies for all your turn it off, I wanna drive like an idiot and it doesn't let me SUPER DORIFTO needs.

I think

Mike · 08-16-2010, 08:53 AM

I always have it on on the street and always have it off on the track. way too intrusive for track use for me.

Nitex · 08-16-2010, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

I always have it on on the street and always have it off on the track. way too intrusive for track use for me.

Looking past what you should or should not do on public roads. The question was does VDC make you a worse driver. Does it make you worse at obeying the law, possibly. Does VDC make you a worse driver on the track, most likely. Intrusive = Slower for most drivers. Lap times, quarter miles etc will be slower with VDC. If you are not yet confident in your driving abilities in the Z, then the opposite could be true.

Zsteve · 08-16-2010, 06:50 PM

tires spinning or skidding make you slower so something that can keep you from doing that can be of help too. Its all pretty subjective.

LunaZ · 08-16-2010, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsteve

tires spinning or skidding make you slower so something that can keep you from doing that can be of help too. Its all pretty subjective.

What he said.
I haven't tracked my Z, but I can tell you that on a spirited run in the mountains, the VDC is just enough to actually help you go a little faster if you're a smooth driver to begin with.
If you treat the throttle like an on/off switch, then yes, the VDC will feel abrupt and intrusive as it quickly reduces power and does whatever else it's doing.

Mike · 08-16-2010, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LunaZ

What he said.
I haven't tracked my Z, but I can tell you that on a spirited run in the mountains, the VDC is just enough to actually help you go a little faster if you're a smooth driver to begin with.
If you treat the throttle like an on/off switch, then yes, the VDC will feel abrupt and intrusive as it quickly reduces power and does whatever else it's doing.

sorry, but I can't see any way it can make you faster, only keep you from having an off road excursion. It cuts power, which might keep you on the road but won't increase your speed.

I'm not saying its a bad thing or anything, I just don't think it can make you go faster, no matter how smooth you are. If you are smooth, it shouldn't ever come on.

Zsteve · 08-16-2010, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

sorry, but I can't see any way it can make you faster, only keep you from having an off road excursion. It cuts power, which might keep you on the road but won't increase your speed.

I'm not saying its a bad thing or anything, I just don't think it can make you go faster, no matter how smooth you are. If you are smooth, it shouldn't ever come on.

so the question is...which causes more loss of time, VDCkicking in for a sec or having your wheels spin?

Mike · 08-16-2010, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsteve

so the question is...which causes more loss of time, VDCkicking in for a sec or having your wheels spin?

I think VDC kicking in. While I said I leave it on for street driving, I actually do turn it off when trying to turn across traffic at busy intersections, as there is nothing worse than the car just bogging down when someone is coming right at you. I turn it back on afterwards though. While I don't ever plan to be in a situation where it is needed and don't drive that way on public roads, its always a nice safety net.

LunaZ · 08-16-2010, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

sorry, but I can't see any way it can make you faster, only keep you from having an off road excursion. It cuts power, which might keep you on the road but won't increase your speed.

I'm not saying its a bad thing or anything, I just don't think it can make you go faster, no matter how smooth you are. If you are smooth, it shouldn't ever come on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsteve

so the question is...which causes more loss of time, VDCkicking in for a sec or having your wheels spin?

Causing the rear wheels to spin by applying a "little bit" more power than there's grip for does not mean an off road or track excursion is imminent. However, that little bit of slip can slow you down and I believe it's more than the subtle adjustments I've felt the VDC making in these circumstances.
I realize that our cars are nowhere near as sophisticated as a Formula 1 car, but did traction control make those cars slower? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the answer is no.

I can definitely see where the VDC would, by its design/programming intended for a street driven car, be too intrusive on the track.

But to answer the original question...
No, it does not make you a worse driver if you don't allow yourself to go numb and tune out what the car is telling you

Zaggeron · 08-16-2010, 07:07 PM

Perhaps some of the problem with an intrusive driver aid is that it amplifies minor mistakes. If you accelerate a little early or take a corner a bit too fast what might have occurred without VDC would have been a bit of a slow down as your wheels slipped, but when the VDC kicked in, that minor slowdown was amplified into a major slow down as it cuts power drastically. I guess with a safety focused driver aid this is the trade-off -- it protects you from major mistakes at the cost of severely impacting performance with minor mistakes.

butdamnbrian · 08-16-2010, 08:02 PM

so this thread was burning in my mind yesterday, and prompted me to do a bit of experimentation. (no, i didn't get wet, dog..)

i've had my car for about 3 weeks, and until yesterday hadn't turned off vdc at all. so yesterday, i stopped by a large empty parking lot, turned off vdc and... well, you guys know where this is going.

i got sideways a decent amount, and i learned a lot about the car. i can say it was a humbling experience to find out just how easy it is to initiate a slide with throttle input. typing it makes it sound rational, but actually doing it... pretty intense and visceral, man. i wouldn't want that to happen accidentally on city streets or freeway entrances.

i don't think i'd say vdc makes for a worse driver, but my experience leads me to believe that vdc makes for an ill-informed driver. having vdc on until now has hidden/masked many characteristics of the car (and probably also saved my *** without my even knowing it). i will need to spend time with it off in order to learn how to best drive the new z, but i think i'm going to save the trial and error for safe conditions. i just don't have enough rwd experience yet (my old volvo wagon doesn't count, i think).

with that said, i'm lookin' fwd to getting sideways again! oO

Zsteve · 08-16-2010, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by butdamnbrian

so this thread was burning in my mind yesterday, and prompted me to do a bit of experimentation. (no, i didn't get wet, dog..)

i've had my car for about 3 weeks, and until yesterday hadn't turned off vdc at all. so yesterday, i stopped by a large empty parking lot, turned off vdc and... well, you guys know where this is going.

i got sideways a decent amount, and i learned a lot about the car. i can say it was a humbling experience to find out just how easy it is to initiate a slide with throttle input. typing it makes it sound rational, but actually doing it... pretty intense and visceral, man. i wouldn't want that to happen accidentally on city streets or freeway entrances.

i don't think i'd say vdc makes for a worse driver, but my experience leads me to believe that vdc makes for an ill-informed driver. having vdc on until now has hidden/masked many characteristics of the car. i will need to spend time with it off in order to learn how to best drive my new z, but i think i'm going to save the trial and error for safe conditions. i just don't have enough rwd experience yet (my old volvo wagon doesn't count, i think).

with that said, i'm look fwd to getting sideways again! oO

that goes for any car youve never driven before. IMO its not difference than having a better suspension, or similar techo advances

Mike · 08-16-2010, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by butdamnbrian

so this thread was burning in my mind yesterday, and prompted me to do a bit of experimentation. (no, i didn't get wet, dog..)

i've had my car for about 3 weeks, and until yesterday hadn't turned off vdc at all. so yesterday, i stopped by a large empty parking lot, turned off vdc and... well, you guys know where this is going.

i got sideways a decent amount, and i learned a lot about the car. i can say it was a humbling experience to find out just how easy it is to initiate a slide with throttle input. typing it makes it sound rational, but actually doing it... pretty intense and visceral, man. i wouldn't want that to happen accidentally on city streets or freeway entrances.

i don't think i'd say vdc makes for a worse driver, but my experience leads me to believe that vdc makes for an ill-informed driver. having vdc on until now has hidden/masked many characteristics of the car (and probably also saved my *** without my even knowing it). i will need to spend time with it off in order to learn how to best drive the new z, but i think i'm going to save the trial and error for safe conditions. i just don't have enough rwd experience yet (my old volvo wagon doesn't count, i think).

with that said, i'm lookin' fwd to getting sideways again! oO

thats why you should take every new car to at least one autocross, really feel what its like at the limit, in a low risk environment.

08-16-2010, 08:53 AM	#4 (permalink)
Mike The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Loganville, GA Posts: 5,944 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 2188	I always have it on on the street and always have it off on the track. way too intrusive for track use for me. __________________ NISSAN: 75 280Z / 86 300ZX GLL /87 Sentra SE / 03 350Z / 23 Z Porsche: 93 968 / 23 Macan GTS / 93 968

08-16-2010, 06:50 PM	#6 (permalink)
Zsteve A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: TX Posts: 3,298 Drives: the 2 balled club Rep Power: 23	tires spinning or skidding make you slower so something that can keep you from doing that can be of help too. Its all pretty subjective. __________________ 2010 LS3 C6 Silver coupe corvette

08-16-2010, 07:07 PM	#12 (permalink)
Zaggeron A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,951 Drives: '10 370ZR '13 BRZ Rep Power: 20	Perhaps some of the problem with an intrusive driver aid is that it amplifies minor mistakes. If you accelerate a little early or take a corner a bit too fast what might have occurred without VDC would have been a bit of a slow down as your wheels slipped, but when the VDC kicked in, that minor slowdown was amplified into a major slow down as it cuts power drastically. I guess with a safety focused driver aid this is the trade-off -- it protects you from major mistakes at the cost of severely impacting performance with minor mistakes. __________________ 2010 Platinum Graphite 370z Roadster:Touring/Sport 2013 Subaru BRZ Limited

08-16-2010, 08:02 PM	#13 (permalink)
butdamnbrian Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: bay area, ca Posts: 254 Drives: the ladies wild Rep Power: 17	so this thread was burning in my mind yesterday, and prompted me to do a bit of experimentation. (no, i didn't get wet, dog..) i've had my car for about 3 weeks, and until yesterday hadn't turned off vdc at all. so yesterday, i stopped by a large empty parking lot, turned off vdc and... well, you guys know where this is going. i got sideways a decent amount, and i learned a lot about the car. i can say it was a humbling experience to find out just how easy it is to initiate a slide with throttle input. typing it makes it sound rational, but actually doing it... pretty intense and visceral, man. i wouldn't want that to happen accidentally on city streets or freeway entrances. i don't think i'd say vdc makes for a worse driver, but my experience leads me to believe that vdc makes for an ill-informed driver. having vdc on until now has hidden/masked many characteristics of the car (and probably also saved my *** without my even knowing it). i will need to spend time with it off in order to learn how to best drive the new z, but i think i'm going to save the trial and error for safe conditions. i just don't have enough rwd experience yet (my old volvo wagon doesn't count, i think). with that said, i'm lookin' fwd to getting sideways again! oO Last edited by butdamnbrian; 08-16-2010 at 08:06 PM.

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08-15-2010, 10:43 AM	#2 (permalink)
CBRich A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: SC Posts: 2,464 Drives: 370Z Rep Power: 546	KP Technologies for all your turn it off, I wanna drive like an idiot and it doesn't let me SUPER DORIFTO needs.