Not a Priority?

SG4247 · 04-18-2017, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 280driver

Well, my point was that the Z should represent more to the brand than simple unit margins. Make good margins on all the high volume models so you can afford less margin on the Z. The Z represents the brands sportiness better than the GTR to many people because it's historically more recognizable and obtainable. If you want better sales, keep the car updated and competive. Spend some on marketing and incourage grass roots racing. I'm very happy with my 280Z but am hoping for a modern equivalent to add to the stable (I love the 370 too). Come on Nissan, don't loose your identity.

I agree, and thats exactly what they have been doing. The high volume units support the low volume niche products. Fortunately, they have kept the 370Z and not discontinued it as of late. Problem is the bean counters, they do not understand identity, brand image, heritage or legacy, and they dont care to. Its a constant battle between the marketing team and the banker types - to keep this type of car in production.

At one point in time, Ford was losing money on every car model they built, and was surviving only on the F-150 sales. Then gas went to $5/gal and F-150 sales tanked, and the Focus was their best margin product and they couldnt make enough of them lol..

Xhilr8n! · 04-18-2017, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidZ370

The sooner you realize nissan does not care the sooner you will let go. Just look what they did to the GTR.... my local dealer hasnt sold one in 4 months lol. I loved my Z but getting out of that thing was the greatest decision i ever made. Nissan makes wonderful sports cars and milks every last dime and penny until no longer, i get that they arent special cars but for a 100k car like the gtr to be worth less than 76k in 2 years and 20k miles is beyond ridiculous, theyre economy car line up is also awful, owning a sentra and recent year maxima idk why in hell anyone would buy that over a toyota or honda. that being said i still am looking to get into a Z lololol

A $100,000 dollar car is worth maybe $80,000 before it rolls a foot. When we sign the papers and transfer ownership it's a used car. If you can get $65,000 at four years (often the time to sell/trade) that's very good.

When I've bought a $100,000 car I want to write a check for $20,000 down to go ahead and handle the depreciation. Other wise you're immediately upside down.

MacCool · 04-18-2017, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SG4247

I worked for many years (over a decade) as a teir one supplier to Nissan, Subaru and Honda for engine and drivetrain assemblies.

As a result, I know each company, their engineers and management very well.

Bottom line: Nissan does not make money on the 370Z program. Not enough sales volume and margin to invest in new product design and development. I know that there are those at Nissan that have great loyalty to the long heritage of the Z product (like Corvette & Camaro, do at GM).

Problem is the the bean counters put pressure on leadership to make certain margins and payback on capital investments by program. Nissan has hopefully now gotten thier ROI on the product since production began in 2008, but I would be surprised if the bankers would be willing to invest millions in new design and tooling for a new 400Z.

I really love the 370Z product, and even liked my old 280ZX very much.

The 370Z is a great and well balanced performance sports car that is affordable.

Hang on to yours, because in 10 years when there arent any, you will be glad you kept it.

Yeah, that's the point. The Z is still here because it's a heritage product being kept alive because it costs them nothing. The only way they can move it forward is by turning it into something that can provide a return on investment, makes market sense. That means a $30,000 Z34 that's in it's 10th model year, or a $65,000 niche sports car with multi-corporate engineering and multi corporate sales and hybrid tech that will let it compete with the 2019 Supra. And then the problem becomes what company will want to partner with them that can or is willing to compete in that market space? Because Nissan will never go it alone...too big a project and too much at stake. Toyota/BMW's approach is really smart.

DavidZ370 · 04-19-2017, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SINISTER

Wait ....

You just confirmed that although everyone wants new, in the end the Z is the best looking, best priced, most reliable performance car you can buy.

Yes and no, I love the Z cars always have so i am bias. the Z is a great car but its far and behind in many categories these days, hell my 4d is faster.. has real trunk space and corners 10x better, and it was had for the mrsp of a sport Z. I would get in one but a used one IF that. I agree with looks and reliability but penny for penny it definitely is not, the GT, SS, are a few examples of cars that though are not "REAL" sports cars are far faster and handle better... something a sports car should dominate in. Though people say a car is not an investment doesn't mean the value should go to **** completely... just look at subaru [=

DavidZ370 · 04-19-2017, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssmoked

That's nothing. The new $100k ZO6 only has 53% residual value after a 3 yr lease. Any German north of 50k loses half value after 3 yrs also.

The GTR actually holds value.

The Z holds value even better. I sold my 4.5 yr old 370z for 50% msrp

Agree for the most part minus the GTR holding value.

ssmoked · 04-19-2017, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidZ370

Agree for the most part minus the GTR holding value.

What's your evidence it doesn't? Have you searched used GTR inventory/price recently? Unless it has very miles, even 09' are asking well over 50k

MacCool · 04-19-2017, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssmoked

That's nothing. The new $100k ZO6 only has 53% residual value after a 3 yr lease. Any German north of 50k loses half value after 3 yrs also.

The GTR actually holds value.

The Z holds value even better. I sold my 4.5 yr old 370z for 50% msrp

Not anymore. The residual value today on a 2017 Z is $15,600.

ssmoked · 04-19-2017, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

Not anymore. The residual value today on a 2017 Z is $15,600.

Right. On a very base 29,900 car.

But hopefully you are able to negotiate at least 25% off during purchase (22,425 after 25% discount). Which nets to adjusted 69% residual after 3 years. Not bad at all considering either discontinue or complete TT engine overhaul next year or so

ssmoked · 04-19-2017, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssmoked

Right. On a very base 29,900 car.

But hopefully you are able to negotiate at least 25% off during purchase (22,425 after 25% discount). Which nets to adjusted 69% residual after 3 years. Not bad at all considering either discontinue or complete TT engine overhaul next year or so

Before anyone say you can't get that type of deal...

https://www.cars.com/for-sale/search...28880&zc=32765

SINISTER · 04-19-2017, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

Not anymore. The residual value today on a 2017 Z is $15,600.

Residual value should be the value expected to sell. No way residual value is 15,600 not even a 2016 is that low......find me a 2017 for that low a price anywhere.

I just did a nationwide search for 2016 model and 2017 model and the lowest price one in the nation is 20k and 2017 is 23k and they are base models... That's a long way off from 15600....

mattleegee · 04-19-2017, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssmoked

Before anyone say you can't get that type of deal...

https://www.cars.com/for-sale/search...28880&zc=32765

Must be a Florida thing?
Here in Washington State within 500 miles the lowest price is $27,995 for base 2017

mattleegee · 04-19-2017, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

Not anymore. The residual value today on a 2017 Z is $15,600.

Sign me up, i have cash in hand @ $15,600

ssmoked · 04-19-2017, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattleegee

Must be a Florida thing?
Here in Washington State within 500 miles the lowest price is $27,995 for base 2017

If you pull up that ad to nearby dealers and ask them to match, I am sure they will

DavidZ370 · 04-19-2017, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssmoked

What's your evidence it doesn't? Have you searched used GTR inventory/price recently? Unless it has very miles, even 09' are asking well over 50k

Thats atrocious....... idk why you think in anyway thats remotely good, theres a local 2014 going for 68k with 33k miles lol..... why? because nissan did what nissan does, milk the **** out of the GTR. Not saying its not a great car, just saying nissan as a whole has a way of destroying the market for them. The car holds less value than the most base subaru you can ever find lol.

wanker · 04-19-2017, 03:39 PM

FWIW, the potential death of the Z is isn't just a Nissan thing. The 2 seated sports car is dying. Even Porsche is struggling. It's a combination of the Great Recession, gas prices and Millennial indifference.

IMHO, the only reason Nissan doesn't just kill the Z, is in deference to the Z heritage. Nissan has always been about light trucks (in Asian) and Sentras. The last time the Z made any money for Nissan was in the 70s.

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04-19-2017, 03:39 PM	#45 (permalink)
wanker Enthusiast Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: San Diego Posts: 443 Drives: 2011 370Z S/T A7 Rep Power: 2901	FWIW, the potential death of the Z is isn't just a Nissan thing. The 2 seated sports car is dying. Even Porsche is struggling. It's a combination of the Great Recession, gas prices and Millennial indifference. IMHO, the only reason Nissan doesn't just kill the Z, is in deference to the Z heritage. Nissan has always been about light trucks (in Asian) and Sentras. The last time the Z made any money for Nissan was in the 70s.