Anyone here into firearms?

tvfreakazoid · 03-17-2011, 02:13 PM

WOW when i started this thread i never thought it would be this busy. I'm glad it is.

Anyways my next purchase i was thinking of getting is the Saiga shotgun and a XDm .45 cal. But since i live in cali i can't get it. Well i can but i don't have any family living outside of cali.
So about the saiga shotty. I was thinking about getting the non pistol grip version because it's way cheaper. I don't know if you still need a bullet button on a non pistol grip saiga, but i can get that info.
The reason why i was thinking about getting the non pistol grip is because of the price. It's practically doubled the price. But i'm still thinking between which one i should get.

What do you guys think?

Isamu · 03-17-2011, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dad

I would not buy one. I wouldn't want anyone to buy one! They may have corrected the error/failure. Maybe that's why it's the FS now, and no longer an F! The thought of a slide breaking off, and being catapulted into my face at over 1000 feet a second. Facial fractures and broken teeth, that's going to hurt!
Google

sir, please tell me your opinion on the HK P30L...
it's between that, and the P220 first....

m4a1mustang · 03-17-2011, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dad

I would not buy one. I wouldn't want anyone to buy one! They may have corrected the error/failure. Maybe that's why it's the FS now, and no longer an F! The thought of a slide breaking off, and being catapulted into my face at over 1000 feet a second. Facial fractures and broken teeth, that's going to hurt!
Google

IIRC the FS model did correct the rare slide failures on the previous models, but I guess that's definitely something that would always concern me.

One of the main reasons why I don't want to shoot our old Mauser 93... I've heard stories about them blowing up in the shooters face because of poor metallurgy.

dad · 03-17-2011, 02:49 PM

Mauser 93, I wonder how much that is worth? I don't know a whole lot on rifles, but that is one old rifle!

m4a1mustang · 03-17-2011, 10:50 PM

TBH I don't really think it's worth all that much. Maybe a few hundred bucks.

haggomyeggo · 03-18-2011, 08:55 AM

Does anybody know the status of Illinois conceal and carry law thats getting voted on??

Illinois is famous for the only state I believe to not have a C&C law?

Red__Zed · 03-18-2011, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haggomyeggo

Does anybody know the status of Illinois conceal and carry law thats getting voted on??

Illinois is famous for the only state I believe to not have a C&C law?

I think Wisconsin and dc share that with you. I'm not sure on the status of any bills, but would love to see you guys move from a no-carry state.

Isamu · 03-18-2011, 09:25 AM

this is what i found

Quote:

Originally Posted by haggomyeggo

Does anybody know the status of Illinois conceal and carry law thats getting voted on??

Illinois is famous for the only state I believe to not have a C&C law?

Quote:

There is now limited concealed carry in Illinois if you have a valid Firearm Owners ID Card (FOID)…

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What is Unlawful Use of Weapons?
Section 24-1 of the Criminal Code of 1961:

“(a) a person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:

*** (4) Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person except when on his land or in his abode or fixed place of business any pistol, revolver, stun gun, taser or other firearm.” 720 ILCS 5/24-1(a)(4)(West 1994).

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Are there any exceptions?
Yes! The Code also provides for certain situations in which section 24-1(a)(4) does not apply. Section 24-2(i) provides:

“nothing in this Article shall prohibit, apply to, or affect the transportation, carrying, or possession of any pistol, revolver, stun gun, taser, or other firearm which is unloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container, by the possessor of a valid Firearms Owners Identification Card.” 720 ILCS 5/24-2(i)(West 1994).
And this excerpt from Public Act 91-0690 (Safe Neighborhoods Act 2000)

(720 ILCS 5/24-1) (from Ch. 38, par. 24-1)
Sec. 24-1. Unlawful Use of Weapons.
(a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:
****
(4) Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode or fixed place of business any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a) (4) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions:
****
(iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner’s identification Card;

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How can I legally transport a firearm on my person or in my vehicle?
Three statutory codes regulate the possession, transfer, and transportation of firearms- the Criminal Code, the Wildlife Code, and the Firearm Owner’s Identification Act. Under Unlawful Use of Weapons (UUW) in the Criminal Code, persons who have been issued a valid FOID card may transport a firearm anywhere in their vehicle or on their person as long as the firearm is unloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container. Firearms that are not immediately accessible or are broken down in a non-functioning state may also be carried or transported under the Criminal Code. The Wildlife Code, however, is more restrictive. It requires that all firearms transported in or on any vehicle be unloaded and in a case. Because of this, it is recommended that, in order to be in compliance with all statutes, all firearms be transported:

1. Unloaded and,
2. Enclosed in a case, and
3. By persons who have a valid FOID card.

Source: Illinois State Police titled “Transport Your Gun Legally” – Commonly asked questions on transporting firearms. George H. Ryan, Governor; Illinois State Police, Sam W. Nolen, Director; Dept. of Natural Resources, Brent Manning, Director.

(Printed by the Authority of the State of Illinois, ISP Central Printing Section, ISP 1-154 [8-00] 70M).

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How do I take advantage of this law to increase my personal safety?
Purchase a concealed carry fanny pack and carry an unloaded gun with magazines at the ready in the compartment. You will be just “Six Seconds From Safety” as you can open the case and quickly lock and load your handgun should a use of lethal force situation arise. Not as good as a concealed carry law, but a lot better than it used to be!

For a purse, carry an unloaded gun with magazines in a container, case, or carrying box. Then place that inside your purse. Yep, you’re probably going to have to carry a large-sized purse to fit the container in it. Then again, some guns out there are small enough that the carrying case is the size of your hand, so you many not need a large purse after all.

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Okay, what are the particulars?
1. Obtain a valid Firearm Owners Identification Card (FOID) and carry it.

2. Obtain a fanny pack designed for concealed carry of a weapon. If you opt to carry a purse, obtain a purse large enough to hold your carrying case within it.

3. Put your UNLOADED gun in the fanny pack or purse along with loaded magazines

4. A letter explaining the law should be carried in the fanny pack/purse. This letter puts law enforcement on notice that you do not consent to search, tells them what your FOID number is, cites the law and has a space for your attorney’s name and phone number.

Download the letter in MS Word by clicking here

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Why should I carry the letter with me in the fanny pack/purse?
Should the police stop you they may not know the law. By having a copy of the laws with you the police are then knowledgeable of the law. If they continue to arrest you they may be sued personally for false arrest as they may no longer claim they were acting in “good faith.” Of course, the purpose of the letter is to prevent an arrest in the first place. Until the law is widely known in Illinois, some of the police will be acting on old information.

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I thought the ammunition had to be stored separately from the handgun?
This is a common myth as is the myth that the handgun has to be in a locked container or in your trunk. The law merely specifies “cased” with no mention as to ammo (see above). Further, the Illinois courts have ruled on this point definitively. Ammunition may be in the magazine as long as the magazine is not in the hand gun. See Illinois v. McDade.

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So far, all well and good, but is there some case law that back you up?
Check out the case of Illinois v. Brunner which categorically affirms the right to carry an unloaded, encased weapon. The relevant portion of the case is highlighted in bold text. Not only case carry the law in Illinois, but it is backed up by the courts. See Illinois v. Brunner

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Just to be sure, I’d like to read the act for myself.
Okay, click here:

http://www.legis.state.il.us/publica...s/91-0690.html

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Quote:

To possess or purchase firearms or ammunition, Illinois residents must have a Firearm Owner's Identification (FOID) card, which is issued by the state police. Generally a FOID card will be granted unless the applicant has been convicted of a felony or an act of domestic violence, is the subject of an order of protection, has been convicted of assault or battery or been a patient in a mental institution within the last five years, has been adjudicated as a mental defective, or is an illegal alien. There are additional requirements for applicants under the age of 21.

There is no state preemption of firearm laws. Some municipalities, most notably Chicago, require that all firearms be registered with the local police department. Until June 2010 Chicago did not allow the registration of handguns, which had the effect of outlawing their possession, unless they were grandfathered in by being registered before April 16, 1982. (see below) The Chicago suburb of Oak Park had also banned handguns (see below) and the town of Highland Park bars handgun possession unless the resident has obtained a permit from the police. The status of these various handgun ordinances has been uncertain since June 26, 2008, when the U.S. Supreme Court struck down Washington, D.C.'s handgun ban in the case of District of Columbia v. Heller. In the months following the Heller decision, handgun bans were repealed in the suburbs of Wilmette, Morton Grove, Evanston, and Winnetka, but Chicago and Oak Park have fought in court to keep their current laws. On June 28, 2010 after reviewing Chicago's handgun ban in the case of McDonald v. Chicago, the Supreme Court has deemed that both the handgun bans of Chicago and Oak Park to be unconstitutional. On July 12, 2010 a new Chicago city ordinance took effect that allows limited handgun possession after obtaining a permit from the police and passing a firearms training course and requiring handgun registration. This new ordinance is currently being challenged in court On July 19, 2010 Oak Park amended its town ordinance to allow handgun possession in one's home and business therefore leaving no remaining town in Illinois to completely ban handguns .
Cook County has banned assault weapons and magazines that can hold more than ten rounds of ammunition. Other municipalities have also enacted various firearm restrictions. Lack of preemption makes it difficult to travel throughout Illinois with a firearm while being sure that no laws are being broken.

Illinois is one of two remaining states that have no provision for the concealed carry of firearms by citizens, the other state being Wisconsin. (In compliance with the federal Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act, retired police officers who qualify annually under state guidelines are allowed to carry concealed.) Open carry is also illegal, except when in unincorporated areas where carrying is not prohibited by county law, a fixed place of business with owner's permission, or in one's abode. When a firearm is being transported, it must be unloaded and enclosed in a case.
When purchasing a handgun in Illinois there is a 72-hour waiting period after the sale before the buyer can take possession; the waiting period for a long gun is 24 hours.

Isamu · 03-18-2011, 09:34 AM

I found this EXTREMELY interesting...

Quote:

On April 16, 2010, governor Jan Brewer signed into law a bill that legalizes the carrying of concealed firearms and other weapons in most places without a permit for adults over 21 years of age. Arizona will still issue concealed carry permits for purposes of reciprocity for carrying concealed weapons in other states and permits will still be required for carrying in certain sensitive areas within Arizona such as in bars or on school grounds. Open carry without a permit will still be legal in most places for 18-20 year-olds, and for emancipated juveniles. This law took effect July 29, 2010. Arizona is only the third state in modern U.S. history (after Vermont and Alaska) to allow the carrying of concealed weapons without a permit, and it is the first state with a large urban population to do so

m4a1mustang · 03-18-2011, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

I think Wisconsin and dc share that with you. I'm not sure on the status of any bills, but would love to see you guys move from a no-carry state.

I really wish DC and Maryland had legal CC and OC. I'd feel a lot more comfortable going there.

haggomyeggo · 03-18-2011, 09:57 AM

The unloaded thing in IL is kinda bunk. They make these little fanny pac looking things that hold a clip and a gun that you can load the clip easily to get around the law but i think those are just kinda dumb.

I support a right to carry but if the argument is deterrence then why conceal the gun. Why not carry it in a western style holster or tactical leg holster to let the criminals know you have a gun. If you conceal it they dont know who has one or not but If they know for sure I have a gun and they are unsure about someone else then wouldnt the criminal go after the person who they didnt know for sure if they had a gun or not.

I know carrying like its the wild west has several bad drawbacks so im only half serious the other half I am attempting to be funny but really I would like to see a C&C law in IL or at least where i can keep a loaded weapon in the car

m4a1mustang · 03-18-2011, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haggomyeggo

The unloaded thing in IL is kinda bunk. They make these little fanny pac looking things that hold a clip and a gun that you can load the clip easily to get around the law but i think those are just kinda dumb.

I support a right to carry but if the argument is deterrence then why conceal the gun. Why not carry it in a western style holster or tactical leg holster to let the criminals know you have a gun. If you conceal it they dont know who has one or not but If they know for sure I have a gun and they are unsure about someone else then wouldnt the criminal go after the person who they didnt know for sure if they had a gun or not.

I know carrying like its the wild west has several bad drawbacks so im only half serious the other half I am attempting to be funny but really I would like to see a C&C law in IL or at least where i can keep a loaded weapon in the car

There's a BIG debate about OC vs. CC.

I think the general thought to CC is the criminals never know who has a gun. Some pro-CC people say OC makes you more of a target.

You could also argue that in liberal areas OC could get you into trouble (man with a gun 911 calls, etc). With CC at least you know that you have something if the SHTF and no one else needs to know so all the sheep can stay nice and happy.

I would OC everyday if more people did it and I knew it wouldn't cause a stir.

haggomyeggo · 03-18-2011, 10:20 AM

These are all reasons I am looking for Federal agency jobs. You can OC anyway, anywhere. Except the White House......

Too bad these jobs are very hard to find......

Red__Zed · 03-18-2011, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

I really wish DC and Maryland had legal CC and OC. I'd feel a lot more comfortable going there.

I'm always worried I'm going to accidentally drive into Maryland while carrying.

haggomyeggo · 03-18-2011, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

I'm always worried I'm going to accidentally drive into Maryland while carrying.

same problem in IL/MO
in missouri you can have the loaded gun anywhere in the car. cross the river into IL
clip must come out and it must be in a case out of reach of the driver.

03-17-2011, 02:13 PM	#871 (permalink)
tvfreakazoid A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: kommie kali Posts: 1,238 Drives: 2015 Audi S5; 6spd. Rep Power: 10324	WOW when i started this thread i never thought it would be this busy. I'm glad it is. Anyways my next purchase i was thinking of getting is the Saiga shotgun and a XDm .45 cal. But since i live in cali i can't get it. Well i can but i don't have any family living outside of cali. So about the saiga shotty. I was thinking about getting the non pistol grip version because it's way cheaper. I don't know if you still need a bullet button on a non pistol grip saiga, but i can get that info. The reason why i was thinking about getting the non pistol grip is because of the price. It's practically doubled the price. But i'm still thinking between which one i should get. What do you guys think? __________________ Mudders milk

03-17-2011, 02:49 PM	#874 (permalink)
dad Grand Prix of Endurance Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 3,476 Drives: Mulsanne Straight Rep Power: 25	Mauser 93, I wonder how much that is worth? I don't know a whole lot on rifles, but that is one old rifle! __________________ We can do without any article of luxury we have never had; but once obtained, it is not in human nature to surrender it voluntary.

03-17-2011, 10:50 PM	#875 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	TBH I don't really think it's worth all that much. Maybe a few hundred bucks. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

03-18-2011, 08:55 AM	#876 (permalink)
haggomyeggo A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: IL Posts: 1,723 Drives: Steves old cars Rep Power: 17	Does anybody know the status of Illinois conceal and carry law thats getting voted on?? Illinois is famous for the only state I believe to not have a C&C law?

03-18-2011, 09:57 AM	#881 (permalink)
haggomyeggo A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: IL Posts: 1,723 Drives: Steves old cars Rep Power: 17	The unloaded thing in IL is kinda bunk. They make these little fanny pac looking things that hold a clip and a gun that you can load the clip easily to get around the law but i think those are just kinda dumb. I support a right to carry but if the argument is deterrence then why conceal the gun. Why not carry it in a western style holster or tactical leg holster to let the criminals know you have a gun. If you conceal it they dont know who has one or not but If they know for sure I have a gun and they are unsure about someone else then wouldnt the criminal go after the person who they didnt know for sure if they had a gun or not. I know carrying like its the wild west has several bad drawbacks so im only half serious the other half I am attempting to be funny but really I would like to see a C&C law in IL or at least where i can keep a loaded weapon in the car

03-18-2011, 10:20 AM	#883 (permalink)
haggomyeggo A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: IL Posts: 1,723 Drives: Steves old cars Rep Power: 17	These are all reasons I am looking for Federal agency jobs. You can OC anyway, anywhere. Except the White House...... Too bad these jobs are very hard to find......