Anyone here into firearms?

ImportConvert · 01-24-2013, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edub370

well, i'm not really sure yet. this being my first AR, i dont think i plan on doing tons of hunting with it, but if i ever did, i figured i would be better off going with the .300. Hell, maybe i should just buy 2 uppers.

side note: just bought a VLTOR stock and buffer tube for my lower. now i get to look into the fun stuff... UPPERS!

i'm going to purchase a complete upper. so i know i want a free float, and flat top. but not sure about what other characteristics i should be looking for in an upper assembly. can anyone shed some light on some do's and dont's when buying an upper?

I recommend staying with the .223/5.56 for your first AR. What are you hunting, deer? I take it you are in KC Missouri? What is the biggest, baddest animal you will hunt?

I currently keep "Brown Tip" (which is a 70gr TSX bullet loaded to 5.56 pressure, you can get it from SSA or ASYM if you don't have access to the .mil load) and know people who hunt with it. It typically expands to about .45-.5" and will penetrate 24-28" in game animals. I'm talking animals like Nilgai antelope, etc. I know a guy who harvests hogs from a helicopter by the hundreds each year, and this round has given him better performance on-target than M80 147gr .308 with a sample size of about 75 animals for each, on the hunt he formed his opinion on.

The other information you got about the 300BLK was also accurate by my understanding, as well. Just the barrel. That's it.

MacCool · 01-24-2013, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

Kool beans. Much respect to the job and position.

BUT... Again, I have seen these buffer assemblies run well on DI guns at the range with a couple of friends that run them on AR builds. I dont know how much trust I'd have on this with the extra impact from piston rifles, but this will be fine on a DI gun.

While i'm sure you seen dozens of failures, if not hundreds? I also know that police and SWAT usually run, RRA, Bushmaster, Stag, BCM components. You wont find a malfunction on a police gun from a UTG buffer assembly. Thats the kind of product that gets tested in civilian ranges and sporting events brother.

that said, with a serious shortage of parts. Its just an option. Even though I seen these run flawless... I did say just to make your build operational.

decided to go on amazon to find a review. While one guy seemed to have an out of spec part. The rest seemed to be doing well.

Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: UTG Billet Mil Spec Buffer Tube Kit Heavy Duty!!

I'm sure I can find more credible reviews and discussions if necessary.

When it comes to AR's. One thing you should know with your extensive experience. There isn't a perfect AR out there off the shelf. You will always need to change something, even on the highest end of gun, Sights, trigger assemblies, sometimes even the whole lower due mag bevels are way too thin for anything more than basic plinking (depending on Builder) .
also different builds match different parts, and what works in one rifle may not work in another.

Govt contract AR's leave you limited to Only certain brands. I'm sure UTg isn't on the SWAT contract list.

There is a wide variety of ways these rifles get into service depending on the agency, all the way from contracted purchasing to allowing individual officers to use their own weapon, but you're right in that when contracted, the purchasing decisions are generally made by the bean counters and not the people actually using them.

My opinions on rifle or component quality are based on what I've seen over the years. Having seen a lot of failures of one kind or another, I've developed a set of biases relative to what brand of rifle or components I would ever own to put to hard use. When people start taking about rifles, there is always someone who chimes in and says "My Bushmaster has been completely reliable". You're right, any company can occasionally make a bad rifle, or in the case of Bushmaster, for example, occasionally make a good one. I tend to view it from the standpoint of "if I want the best odds of getting a reliable, high-quality rifle, what brand would I buy based on the performance of the many brands I've seen in hard use?"

m4a1mustang · 01-24-2013, 07:39 AM

Being the good investor I am, I'm again considering selling my BCM for a 100%+ profit. Decisions...

UNKNOWN_370 · 01-24-2013, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

I understand the availability problem, butt I could NEVER bring myself to recommend offshore imported Leapers-UTG rifle parts o ANYONE, even the most casual plinker, even for a rifle that would be nothing more than a range toy.

.

They are a distributor for many parts. Not all are imported. The AR part I'm recommending is american.

Leapers, Inc. - Hunting/Shooting, Sporting Goods and Security Gear

The part so, far gets acceptably good reviews.

http://www.amazon.com/Billet-Spec-Bu...owViewpoints=1

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

There is a wide variety of ways these rifles get into service depending on the agency, all the way from contracted purchasing to allowing individual officers to use their own weapon, but you're right in that when contracted, the purchasing decisions are generally made by the bean counters and not the people actually using them.

My opinions on rifle or component quality are based on what I've seen over the years. Having seen a lot of failures of one kind or another, I've developed a set of biases relative to what brand of rifle or components I would ever own to put to hard use. When people start taking about rifles, there is always someone who chimes in and says "My Bushmaster has been completely reliable". You're right, any company can occasionally make a bad rifle, or in the case of Bushmaster, for example, occasionally make a good one. I tend to view it from the standpoint of "if I want the best odds of getting a reliable, high-quality rifle, what brand would I buy based on the performance of the many brands I've seen in hard use?"

I agree on preferring different COMPLETE rifles based on the "criteria you stated". Not a fan of Bushmaster for ownership myself, in spite of... I'm sure you know a lot about a slew of parts. But I'm talking about the one you say is a non-recommendable part.
1.Two Friends running it. Rock solid thus far.
2. Reviews... Very good thus far.

While i'm sure you have lots of good experience to share and can probably "teach me" a few things... Your analysis of this "particular UTG part" is unfounded. I will probably end up ordering one myself? Don't need it now but if i come across another cheap stripped lower. I'm buying it fror 3 lowers.

Lowers will be the most important part...

I have a UTG scope mount for an AK, its rock solid and holds zero on my Burris xts-135, I shoot 100-200yrd groups on AK that breaks AK stereotypes. My friends have the UTG buffer on their rifle builds and you have a UTG rifle case. 3 good UTG parts.

UNKNOWN_370 · 01-24-2013, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Being the good investor I am, I'm again considering selling my BCM for a 100%+ profit. Decisions...

how many AR's do you own?

m4a1mustang · 01-24-2013, 09:10 AM

Just the one.

MacCool · 01-24-2013, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

They are a distributor for many parts. Not all are imported. The AR part I'm recommending is american.

Leapers, Inc. - Hunting/Shooting, Sporting Goods and Security Gear

The part so, far gets acceptably good reviews.

Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: UTG Billet Mil Spec Buffer Tube Kit Heavy Duty!!

I agree on preferring different COMPLETE rifles based on the "criteria you stated". Not a fan of Bushmaster for ownership myself, in spite of... I'm sure you know a lot about a slew of parts. But I'm talking about the one you say is a non-recommendable part.
1.Two Friends running it. Rock solid thus far.
2. Reviews... Very good thus far.

While i'm sure you have lots of good experience to share and can probably "teach me" a few things... Your analysis of this "particular UTG part" is unfounded. I will probably end up ordering one myself? Don't need it now but if i come across another cheap stripped lower. I'm buying it fror 3 lowers.

Lowers will be the most important part...

I have a UTG scope mount for an AK, its rock solid and holds zero on my Burris xts-135, I shoot 100-200yrd groups on AK that breaks AK stereotypes. My friends have the UTG buffer on their rifle builds and you have a UTG rifle case. 3 good UTG parts.

Good luck with that. I hope it works out well for you.

UNKNOWN_370 · 01-24-2013, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Just the one.

Nah bro... Keep it. It's not worth losing. BCM is a good rifle and it will be hard to replace for a while.

Also, the BS that we're going through may drive up prices permanently. Maybe not to where they are now? But I think a base AR is going to start at $1000 instead of the $750 it was starting at 10 weeks ago before our president was re-elected. Your BCM is going up in value. But you may have features that may be outlawed? And you may have a grandfathered AR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

Good luck with that. I hope it works out well for you.

m4a1mustang · 01-24-2013, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

Nah bro... Keep it. It's not worth losing. BCM is a good rifle and it will be hard to replace for a while.

Also, the BS that we're going through may drive up prices permanently. Maybe not to where they are now? But I think a base AR is going to start at $1000 instead of the $750 it was starting at 10 weeks ago before our president was re-elected. Your BCM is going up in value. But you may have features that may be outlawed? And you may have a grandfathered AR.

My view is that since the AWB was introduced today it might fuel further hysteria and drive prices up temporarily... good time to sell. If I sold I wouldn't really ever plan on buying one back, anyway.

Just so tempting to sell and profit.

BlackZeda · 01-24-2013, 07:13 PM

I see a gun (handgun or assault rifle) the same way as I see a fire extinguisher; hopefully and probably I will never need to use it, but when I need it I will be surely glad that I at least have it.

It would be extremely gratifying to see the AWB go down in flames realizing that the government caused the gun industry to gain massive profits because of their knee-jerk stupidity.

ImportConvert · 01-24-2013, 11:52 PM

Well, my two cases of SOCOM 5.56 "Optomized" 70gr "Brown Tip" came in today. Tested it against a cinderblock and against water/paper/water.

Cinderblock showed penetration through both sides, with VERY little energy remaining upon exit (it bounced off of a soft-cover 1" thick text-book after tearing/denting it heavily). Here is what the round looks like:

The round on the left punched the cinderblock. IN/out both sides, hit the book, dented/tore and bounced off.

The round in the middle is a pulled, unfired projectile.

The round on the right first hit a 3-1/4" thick 1/2gallon cardboard milk-carton full of water, immediately after, a 1" thick soft-cover dry text-book, and immediately after that, it penetrated fully through 2 gallons of water in the form of plastic 1-gallon conventional milk-jugs, and then was found in the bottom of the milk-jug behind them. It expanded to 0.32" by 0.49" at the minimum (measured the narrowest distance "between" the "petals") and maximum (measured across the farthest spanning "petals"). The hole in the cover of the book leads me to believe that it was fully expanded by the time it left the 3-1/4" thick milk-carton, as did the resounding SLAP! of it hitting said book (I was shooting suppressed and using electronic ear-pro. The "SLAP!" was insanely loud.) and it obliterating the cardboard milk carton.

All-in-all, it's a sick round and a great addition to my stash. It will run great out of my 10.5" SBR, and should expand effectively out past the 200 yard mark. Should run about 2475fps from that barrel and the effective expansion threshold is around 1800fps.

*Testing conducted from a 14.5" barrel at roughly 15 yards. As a size-reference, the pulled projectile mic's 1.038" in length.

OMGiGOTaZ · 01-25-2013, 09:22 AM

Not sure if this Falls under Political, but I don't think it does, so i'm sharing

Washington city councilman walks out on council meeting because of citizen with CCW - YouTube

UNKNOWN_370 · 01-25-2013, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

My view is that since the AWB was introduced today it might fuel further hysteria and drive prices up temporarily... good time to sell. If I sold I wouldn't really ever plan on buying one back, anyway.

Just so tempting to sell and profit.

What will you change your name to? .45acpmustang?

UNKNOWN_370 · 01-25-2013, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Well, my two cases of SOCOM 5.56 "Optomized" 70gr "Brown Tip" came in today. Tested it against a cinderblock and against water/paper/water.

Cinderblock showed penetration through both sides, with VERY little energy remaining upon exit (it bounced off of a soft-cover 1" thick text-book after tearing/denting it heavily). Here is what the round looks like:

The round on the left punched the cinderblock. IN/out both sides, hit the book, dented/tore and bounced off.

The round in the middle is a pulled, unfired projectile.

The round on the right first hit a 3-1/4" thick 1/2gallon cardboard milk-carton full of water, immediately after, a 1" thick soft-cover dry text-book, and immediately after that, it penetrated fully through 2 gallons of water in the form of plastic 1-gallon conventional milk-jugs, and then was found in the bottom of the milk-jug behind them. It expanded to 0.32" by 0.49" at the minimum (measured the narrowest distance "between" the "petals") and maximum (measured across the farthest spanning "petals"). The hole in the cover of the book leads me to believe that it was fully expanded by the time it left the 3-1/4" thick milk-carton, as did the resounding SLAP! of it hitting said book (I was shooting suppressed and using electronic ear-pro. The "SLAP!" was insanely loud.) and it obliterating the cardboard milk carton.

All-in-all, it's a sick round and a great addition to my stash. It will run great out of my 10.5" SBR, and should expand effectively out past the 200 yard mark. Should run about 2475fps from that barrel and the effective expansion threshold is around 1800fps.

*Testing conducted from a 14.5" barrel at roughly 15 yards. As a size-reference, the pulled projectile mic's 1.038" in length.

Thats the first time I ever heard of a 5.56 round going completely through a cinderblock. Do you have video or at least photo of the block? This is an interesting round.
Who makes the Brown-tip? Penetration is unlike most 5.56 ammo and on a borderline, decent bullet weight

UNKNOWN_370 · 01-25-2013, 10:02 AM

LOL... Let's End Racism.

01-24-2013, 07:39 AM	#2823 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	Being the good investor I am, I'm again considering selling my BCM for a 100%+ profit. Decisions... __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

01-24-2013, 09:10 AM	#2826 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	Just the one. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

01-24-2013, 07:13 PM	#2830 (permalink)
BlackZeda A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: Englewood, CO Posts: 1,109 Drives: 19 Audi TT RS Rep Power: 21	I see a gun (handgun or assault rifle) the same way as I see a fire extinguisher; hopefully and probably I will never need to use it, but when I need it I will be surely glad that I at least have it. It would be extremely gratifying to see the AWB go down in flames realizing that the government caused the gun industry to gain massive profits because of their knee-jerk stupidity. UNKNOWN_370, Rooster89 and OMGiGOTaZ like this.

01-24-2013, 11:52 PM	#2831 (permalink)
ImportConvert A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: SWMO Posts: 4,454 Drives: 2019 CX5 GT Reserve Rep Power: 7626	Well, my two cases of SOCOM 5.56 "Optomized" 70gr "Brown Tip" came in today. Tested it against a cinderblock and against water/paper/water. Cinderblock showed penetration through both sides, with VERY little energy remaining upon exit (it bounced off of a soft-cover 1" thick text-book after tearing/denting it heavily). Here is what the round looks like: The round on the left punched the cinderblock. IN/out both sides, hit the book, dented/tore and bounced off. The round in the middle is a pulled, unfired projectile. The round on the right first hit a 3-1/4" thick 1/2gallon cardboard milk-carton full of water, immediately after, a 1" thick soft-cover dry text-book, and immediately after that, it penetrated fully through 2 gallons of water in the form of plastic 1-gallon conventional milk-jugs, and then was found in the bottom of the milk-jug behind them. It expanded to 0.32" by 0.49" at the minimum (measured the narrowest distance "between" the "petals") and maximum (measured across the farthest spanning "petals"). The hole in the cover of the book leads me to believe that it was fully expanded by the time it left the 3-1/4" thick milk-carton, as did the resounding SLAP! of it hitting said book (I was shooting suppressed and using electronic ear-pro. The "SLAP!" was insanely loud.) and it obliterating the cardboard milk carton. All-in-all, it's a sick round and a great addition to my stash. It will run great out of my 10.5" SBR, and should expand effectively out past the 200 yard mark. Should run about 2475fps from that barrel and the effective expansion threshold is around 1800fps. Testing conducted from a 14.5" barrel at roughly 15 yards. As a size-reference, the pulled projectile mic's 1.038" in length. Last edited by ImportConvert; 01-24-2013 at 11:58 PM.*

01-25-2013, 09:22 AM	#2832 (permalink)
OMGiGOTaZ Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 316 Drives: 12 370Z Auto Sport Rep Power: 12	Not sure if this Falls under Political, but I don't think it does, so i'm sharing Washington city councilman walks out on council meeting because of citizen with CCW - YouTube UNKNOWN_370 likes this. __________________ all you gotta do is...

01-25-2013, 10:02 AM	#2835 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14857	LOL... Let's End Racism. m4a1mustang and BlackZeda like this.