Anyone here into firearms?

Joepro · 03-11-2013, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

Windham = Bushmaster. Suitable as a range plinker, not a serious-use firearm. The M&P is more highly regarded.

The features on a particular rifle are not what you pay for. You're paying for the quality and reliability of the firearm and the quality control which goes into the total package, which is at least in part determined by the quality and reliability of the parts that go into it. Taking a bargain basement rifle and slapping a bunch of bargain basement doo-dads on it does not make a quality rifle.

You can get a Colt 6920 for not very much more money (in a normal market). If you're looking for durability and reliability, that would be the way to go.

It will be a plinknig rifle only, the market sucks, but I want to grab one before I cannot have one period. I bee researching and most say the new bushmaster is not the same quality of those made in the past and the windham rifles are better. I could buy online I guess to get more options, but those 3 brands are consistently coming into the LGS, thus why I think I will be limited to those brands unless I go used. I looked up the core15, they have a liftime warranty on the gun, does not matter who owns it, or at least that is what they adverstise.

Red__Zed · 03-11-2013, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joepro

It will be a plinknig rifle only, the market sucks, but I want to grab one before I cannot have one period. I bee researching and most say the new bushmaster is not the same quality of those made in the past and the windham rifles are better. I could buy online I guess to get more options, but those 3 brands are consistently coming into the LGS, thus why I think I will be limited to those brands unless I go used. I looked up the core15, they have a liftime warranty on the gun, does not matter who owns it, or at least that is what they adverstise.

Warranty means nothing if the gun doesn't work when you need it. Beyond that, warranty work is a pain.

Colts are hard to find now, but a great option if you can find at reasonable prices. DD is accepting orders now at msrp as well.

ImportConvert · 03-11-2013, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Warranty means nothing if the gun doesn't work when you need it. Beyond that, warranty work is a pain.

Colts are hard to find now, but a great option if you can find at reasonable prices. DD is accepting orders now at msrp as well.

Correct, my 300 BLK SBR build is scheduled for the first week in April. I have researched DD, and asked guys like Wes of MSTN, etc. about them, and DD actually DOES do 99% of their stuff (random figure, but you get the idea) in-house, and they do a damn good job. I would honestly take DD over any other "mass produced" M4 out there right now. Of course, Noveske, MSTN, etc. will give you more customization and spend more time on the rifle as a while, but for a line-item, I think DD is the choice I am most happy with.

ImportConvert · 03-11-2013, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

Windham = Bushmaster. Suitable as a range plinker, not a serious-use firearm. The M&P is more highly regarded.

The features on a particular rifle are not what you pay for. You're paying for the quality and reliability of the firearm and the quality control which goes into the total package, which is at least in part determined by the quality and reliability of the parts that go into it. Taking a bargain basement rifle and slapping a bunch of bargain basement doo-dads on it does not make a quality rifle.

You can get a Colt 6920 for not very much more money (in a normal market). If you're looking for durability and reliability, that would be the way to go.

+1, although, I am seriously liking DD vs. Colt for the same dollar. Colt makes a great rifle, so does DD, but it's my impression that DD rifles have all the goods, plus a bit more fluff and buff than Colt. Also, DD is quicker to market than Colt, as Colt chased military for as long as possible and DD has been a .mil supplier as well as catering to the civilian world. DD is just so much faster to market their concepts.

MacCool · 03-12-2013, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

+1, although, I am seriously liking DD vs. Colt for the same dollar. Colt makes a great rifle, so does DD, but it's my impression that DD rifles have all the goods, plus a bit more fluff and buff than Colt. Also, DD is quicker to market than Colt, as Colt chased military for as long as possible and DD has been a .mil supplier as well as catering to the civilian world. DD is just so much faster to market their concepts.

I think Daniel Defense is excellent and I would have absolutely no concerns with owning a DD rifle. I put them at least on par with Colt.

ImportConvert · 03-11-2013, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joepro

Anyone here have thoughts on Windham(old bushy) vs new bushy vs SW Mp15's ? These are the brands the lgs are getting in. Shot a bushy today, its a new bushy, seems fine, but Im a Ar-15 noob.

Don't worry about your LGS. The internet is your oyster. Buy Colt, DD, Noveske, KAC, etc.

Of those you listed, the M&P is the better.

Joepro · 03-11-2013, 03:09 PM

the build a rifle tool is oh so fun the DD website!

Rooster89 · 03-11-2013, 05:24 PM

sold my crimson trace lasergrips finally.

Red__Zed · 03-11-2013, 06:31 PM

goodbye Colorado liberty

MacCool · 03-12-2013, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

goodbye Colorado liberty

Here's a quote from the CO senate president to mull over:

"People who own guns are essentially a "sickness on our souls" that must be "cleansed. ... Cleansing a sickness from our souls doesn't come easy. It's gruesome..." - John Morse, Colorado Democratic Legislator

Here's a quote from Duane Liptak, Product Development at Magpul:

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPQR476

We've been going all weekend. Thought we had it late last week...Bloomberg flew in another money guy with deeper pockets to make the rounds, and now we are where we are.

Just to recap for you...this is Bloomberg's bill, brought to the Gov by Bloomberg's lobbyists, Sponsored by a state senator promised Bloomberg support (and at the behest of the governor) passing with votes bought by Bloomberg. All this despite the constituents overwhelmingly opposing it except in some very liberal districts, proponents of the bill admitting it will do nothing for public safety, and thousands showing up at the Capitol and at town hall meetings to oppose it.

Democracy in action, folks.

UNKNOWN_370 · 03-12-2013, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

Here's a quote from the CO senate president to mull over:

"People who own guns are essentially a "sickness on our souls" that must be "cleansed. ... Cleansing a sickness from our souls doesn't come easy. It's gruesome..." - John Morse, Colorado Democratic Legislator

Here's a quote from Duane Liptak, Product Development at Magpul:

Sounds like one of those cult like sayings or Hitler quotes.

ImportConvert · 03-12-2013, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacCool

Here's a quote from the CO senate president to mull over:

"People who own guns are essentially a "sickness on our souls" that must be "cleansed. ... Cleansing a sickness from our souls doesn't come easy. It's gruesome..." - John Morse, Colorado Democratic Legislator

Here's a quote from Duane Liptak, Product Development at Magpul:

Anyone who tries to "cleans" me is going to find out just how "gruesome" it can be.

m4a1mustang · 03-12-2013, 07:54 AM

I like DD as well.

UNKNOWN_370 · 03-12-2013, 10:22 AM

CORE15 mini-torture test, 250 rnds ASAP - YouTube

CORE-15 RIFLE SYSTEMS CARBINE - YouTube

core-15 NiB BCG review - AR15.COM

Core 15 M-4 - The Firing Line Forums

Get advice from guys that have actually shot a weapon and can judge them appropriately. Go through forums and you tube. See what are the pro's and cons. We can tell you brand X and Y is this and that. But often, Ar advice will be biased. Keep it moving on the reading. Dont just look at Core- look at the tried and true brands, supposed crappy brands. find both positive and negative reviews. Weigh the reasons out and make sure the negative or positive sound valid enough to take the recommendation. "Things like it just looks so cool is not a good review." Endurance test vids are a good indicator of performance...
At first, the more you read, the more you will get confused cuz rule of law and brand loyalty shouldn't go together, but it does. Over time, the truth is revealed and you find out what really works and what doesn't. I'm not saying you're not going to get generally good advice, but a lot of advice comes from limited research. One may know something the other doesn't.

Lastly, get out to ranges. Test em out for yourself. Shoot your friends AR's. That will add to the reviews. You can usually get a feel for popular brands at ranges. (Colt, bushmaster, Stag, RRA, etc)
AR's are a big world with too much info. but once you have as much knowledge as possible? It makes life easier. Lastly, off the rack, there's no such thing as the perfect AR. That's why they have such a huge aftermarket.

GL and happy shooting.

ImportConvert · 03-12-2013, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

CORE15 mini-torture test, 250 rnds ASAP - YouTube

CORE-15 RIFLE SYSTEMS CARBINE - YouTube

core-15 NiB BCG review - AR15.COM

Core 15 M-4 - The Firing Line Forums

Get advice from guys that have actually shot a weapon and can judge them appropriately. Go through forums and you tube. See what are the pro's and cons. We can tell you brand X and Y is this and that. But often, Ar advice will be biased. Keep it moving on the reading. Dont just look at Core- look at the tried and true brands, supposed crappy brands. find both positive and negative reviews. Weigh the reasons out and make sure the negative or positive sound valid enough to take the recommendation. "Things like it just looks so cool is not a good review." Endurance test vids are a good indicator of performance...
At first, the more you read, the more you will get confused cuz rule of law and brand loyalty shouldn't go together, but it does. Over time, the truth is revealed and you find out what really works and what doesn't. I'm not saying you're not going to get generally good advice, but a lot of advice comes from limited research. One may know something the other doesn't.

Lastly, get out to ranges. Test em out for yourself. Shoot your friends AR's. That will add to the reviews. You can usually get a feel for popular brands at ranges. (Colt, bushmaster, Stag, RRA, etc)
AR's are a big world with too much info. but once you have as much knowledge as possible? It makes life easier. Lastly, off the rack, there's no such thing as the perfect AR. That's why they have such a huge aftermarket.

GL and happy shooting.

Better yet, see if you can attend a high round-count carbine course---EVEN IF YOU JUST WATCH! I am sure that if you know someone, they would hook you up. You be the go-for that gets the guys sammiches, I bet you could watch free of charge, and soak up a TON! of info, see what breaks/what doesn't, etc. without spending a dime.

You may choose to be more involved, and that's great, I just don't want to sound like I'm telling you to burn a few $K in ammo, etc. and rent a weapon just to figure out what to buy, but if you want to, it's experience that is well worth it!

03-11-2013, 03:09 PM	#7 (permalink)
Joepro A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Athens ohio Posts: 1,213 Drives: Company car Rep Power: 35	the build a rifle tool is oh so fun the DD website! __________________ Swift\|Koni\|SPC\| FI CBE\|Z1\|Stillen\|Sbend\|Zspeed\|R/T Tuned\|523 whp\|458 tq\|10.5 psi\|SOLD Joepro's Journal\|Joepro's Boosted Performance Build \|Pittsburgh-Western-Pa-Ohio-Wv-Group

03-12-2013, 07:54 AM	#13 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6963	I like DD as well. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

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03-11-2013, 06:31 PM	#9 (permalink)
Red__Zed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: window seat Posts: 28,940 Drives: Mostly on two wheels Rep Power: 121	goodbye Colorado liberty

03-12-2013, 10:22 AM	#14 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14859	CORE15 mini-torture test, 250 rnds ASAP - YouTube CORE-15 RIFLE SYSTEMS CARBINE - YouTube core-15 NiB BCG review - AR15.COM Core 15 M-4 - The Firing Line Forums Get advice from guys that have actually shot a weapon and can judge them appropriately. Go through forums and you tube. See what are the pro's and cons. We can tell you brand X and Y is this and that. But often, Ar advice will be biased. Keep it moving on the reading. Dont just look at Core- look at the tried and true brands, supposed crappy brands. find both positive and negative reviews. Weigh the reasons out and make sure the negative or positive sound valid enough to take the recommendation. "Things like it just looks so cool is not a good review." Endurance test vids are a good indicator of performance... At first, the more you read, the more you will get confused cuz rule of law and brand loyalty shouldn't go together, but it does. Over time, the truth is revealed and you find out what really works and what doesn't. I'm not saying you're not going to get generally good advice, but a lot of advice comes from limited research. One may know something the other doesn't. Lastly, get out to ranges. Test em out for yourself. Shoot your friends AR's. That will add to the reviews. You can usually get a feel for popular brands at ranges. (Colt, bushmaster, Stag, RRA, etc) AR's are a big world with too much info. but once you have as much knowledge as possible? It makes life easier. Lastly, off the rack, there's no such thing as the perfect AR. That's why they have such a huge aftermarket. GL and happy shooting.