Yeah the PM45 is like that too. It is not a pleasant gun to shoot. Shooting .45 from such a lightweight pistol, well let's just say that the recoil has to go somewhere. In my case, it all went to the knuckle of my thumb, and it actually took skin off after 50 rounds!

Re. .380 penetration, here's the concern I've always had. I wonder if .380 has sufficient energy. You say that it penetrates 12" in gelatin. That's fine and well, but what happens if the slug hits bone? Will it have sufficient energy to break through bone? Energy is what smashes through bone, not velocity. (Velocity is important for slug expansion, however, and it factors into the energy equation.) That's one shortcoming of ballistic gelatin testing, IMO. Why is this important? Well, our vital organs are protected by bone. Take a center of mass shot, and there's a good chance the slug will hit a rib. Take a head shot, and it has to penetrate through skull. Unless you're aiming for the gut, you're not shooting at the equivalent of a block of gelatin. I'm not saying that .380 won't get the job done, mind you. I'm just saying that I'm unsure, that I don't know, hence I'm a little iffy on being confident in the round.

To give you an idea, here are the comparative energy ratings of Corbon DPX .380 vs. 9mm rounds:

.380: 196 ft/lbs.
9mm: 399ft/lbs.

So, just by moving up to a 9mm, you get a little more than double the energy.

Having said that, I still might get a .380. You just can't beat the convenience of those little things when all you want to do is go take the dog for a walk or something, and have some protection with you in case a vicious dog breaks out from a neighbor's back yard and attacks you (which happened to me once -- the thing grabbed my dog by the neck and started shaking it. I only managed to stop the thing by kicking it square in its nose. The next time something like that happens, I'd rather just shoot it. Luckily, the dog dropped my dog and ran off. It could have easily turned on me instead).

I never said that a .380 was a single shot man stopper, but what it does offer is convenient concealment, any bullet is better than no bullet right? The P3 is a summer use only pistol for me because my summer attire is usually tshirt and shorts, when the colder weather comes around and I start wearing jackets and more clothing, I carry either my S&W J-frame .357 or my M&P .357 compact.

I agree. I just returned from the gun store an hour ago with a new .380, actually. ;)

which one did you go with?

The Sig P238. It's like a mini-1911 (single action, carried cocked and locked). 6+1 capacity, night sights included, $599.

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/t...0/P1010340.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/t...0/P1010341.jpg

Looks nice. I'm looking for a P239 SAS Gen 2 Nitron 40S&W. You didn't see one of those when you were at the store did you?

They usually have that at the gun store I frequent, actually. In fact, I used to own that exact gun. It was a great gun, but I ended up trading it in. I still have a Comp-Tac Pro Carry IWB holster and matching mag pouch for that gun. Let me know if you want it after you get your P239 SAS.

What store do you go to? They might have a web site?

Bull's Eye in Lawrenceville, GA. www.bullseyeindoorrange.com

Oh its cute! its a baby 1911! haha, now that thats out of the way, gawddamn thats expensive for a .380!

Yeah, it's not cheap. I think it's worth it though. I mean, it's a Sig, not a Kel-Tec. It's all metal, including the frame, not polymer. And a big plus (for me at least) is that it includes night sights. A lot of .380s don't even have sights, period.

I've got two AR-15's, a Bushmaster and a DPMS. Also a .308 DPMS and a .338 Federal DPMS. Good to see some other guys into guns!

ORLY? That's all? lol

I like your list.
That looks pretty nice. I've always wanted to shoot a Walther.
frivolous lawsuits ftmfl...

If one gets sued, opt for a jury trial. I think you'll find that most of the jury will side with you if you know how to manipulate them.
Nice! It's kinda cute.
How do you like the DPMS? I keep hearing bad things about them.

^^^^ Lol...not really, I might even build one one day

finally the m4 is going to be updated
 

I just read in a guns and ammo mag that the army is going to update the m4 by 2013. The "round counter" is a very cool idea. I wonder if gun manufacturer would implement that to civilian ar15's? Here's a clipping of the article:

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...d/m4update.jpg

AR
 

How do you like the DPMS? I keep hearing bad things about them.[/QUOTE]

I like it, it all three of them shoot great, my only beef with the AR and .308 is that they are incredibly heavy. But the .338 is light as a feather.:tup:

Here's my setup

lol... the other day one of my supervisors showed me his new toy. It was a S&W .460 revolver with a scope and sling. That thing was heavy! He's thinking of using it for hunting since it's good for up to 250 yards.

Yummy. I <3 both my P22 and P99. most comfortable guns I've ever held.

My AR with the stuff I bought minus the rail covers in the top and bottom of the handguard and I'll be running a little longer handguard:
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...myweapon-1.jpg

You can trace/credit the 1911-ness of the Sig P238 to the Colt Mustang .380 as the Sig is basically a revamped copy of the Colt. If it is anything like most other Sigs the quality should be good.

Second Amendment March


California | Second Amendment March

Oh yea!

SIG SAUER: NEW: P210 Legend

http://www.6thmarines.com/USMC%20Rif...ata%20Book.pdf


Print your own targets

Something the rest of you guys who have AR-15s might be interested in. Military 5.56 ammo. "This the original US Military Lake City Arsenal M855 SS109 Penetrator ammo. 62 grain with steel tipped penatrating core for combat use, firing at 3,025 f.p.s. very scarce and limited supplies, 1000 Round Bulk Pack. This is identical to the ammo being used right now in Iraq by US troops."

I just ordered a box myself. Get it while you still can, fellas!

Do not use this ammo if your AR is rated for .223 only!

AMM-223C - Ammo 5.56x45mm Military, Lake City, 62 Grain, 1000 Rounds Round Loose Bulk Pack, Penetrator, M855 SS109

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_i...AMM-223C_A.jpg

Thanks for the heads up, just checked my stag and yes its labled for 5.56 NATO. My friend is planning on getting me some as a b-day gift.

On a side note:
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...1987/001-7.jpg

what do you guys think? I'm finalizing the design before I put it on my AR, will include "come and get them" under the emblem in greek. I'm the kind of guy that likes to add a personal touch to his guns, and I know its not for everyone.

Heh, i get that stuff free, gotta love company armorers :)

You military, Red?

Trained killer since 2002 buddy :)

Well then technically you're not really getting your ammo for free. You're getting it on the taxpayers' nickel. There's a difference. There ain't no such thing as free, buddy. ;) (Thanks for your service, btw.)

well first of all, lemme say thanks to upstanding citizens like yourself for providing me with the means to lay evil doers to rest, and thanks again for the support, I enjoy doing my job and will happily lay my life down so that others may go on living the American dream, btw, we get Sierra Match King ammo in short spurts, hollow points even :)

Although they only get issued to the squad designated marksmen with the SASS rifles.

Sadly, one of the biggest threats to the American Dream may come from within. But that's another topic for another time and place.

Thanks again, Red. :usa:

Unfortunately I have to agree, especially all this talk of new gun control legislation... :shakes head:from my cold dead hands buddy, from my cold dead hands

:stirthepot: The Socialist in power have to do something, because the American people are getting tired of having things shoved down their throat.

I believe these ammo are no good in cali! Why you ask, cause we're the best state of all time:icon18:

Picked it up today :tup:
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...1987/022-1.jpg
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...241987/031.jpg
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...241987/029.jpg

very nice, clean rifle Vash...:tiphat:

Is it a AR for left handed shooters?

^^ yep its a stag model 3L, only manufacture that I know of that makes their upper in LH configuration. Troy is coming out with a ambi-mag release priced at $65, so I'm just going to wait till it comes out. I think this it it for now, might add a eotech later.

Congrats on the new hardware, Vash!