Is Nissan retiring the Z after 2018

Larso1 · 12-19-2017, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

Electric cars are coming faster then what we think. The problems I see for now with the electric car is range, charging time, battery replacement costs, and inter-structure for recharging. They will figure some of this out, but not all of it.

I drive cross country alot. Mostly from Pittsburgh to Denver and back. Takes about 14 hrs one way. How long will it take me with an electric car? Days? Close to a week?

I get about 400 miles out of a tank of gas. Electric is limited to what? 200 miles or so. Takes me about 10 minutes to fill up. How long does it take to recharge the battery? Hours? How many place are there for recharging on a interstate? I've only seen one place. And it was close to a city. You won't find any on I70 or I80. So much for taking a long road trip in the future.

Battery replacement for now is about 1/3 the cost of the car. Because of this. Low end families are going to be hurting. You'll end up with less people driving. And what are you going to do with the old batteries? If you're in an accident. Now you have to fear from getting executed. Survive the wreck, then get zapped getting out of the car.

Another problem. Being in power generation for years. Our grid right now can not handle a massive increase in electric cars today. Transmission lines will have to be up-graded and new lines put up. And guess what. You will have the N.I.M.B.Y group yelling about the new lines. So until you fix that problem. You may be looking at brown outs.

And lets not forget about the big one. TAXES. Instead of paying road taxes with each gallon of gas. You will be paying for each mile driven. Two ways of what the gov't is thinking. Pay at the time of each recharge. Or pay yearly for each mile. That will be a big bill!

As you say, they'll figure it out. Right now, with just a few EV models on the market, one is already getting over 300 miles per charge. Tesla must be confident because they are about to produce an over-the-road, all electric rig. (You've probably seen the concept photos).

Motor Week showed a battery pak replacement "station" where the vehicle drives over, and is positioned over, a lift that extends up to the battery pack, lowers it below surface, and raises a new fully charged battery pack into place under the car. It worked slick, and was fast. That's one possible solution besides "quick charge" stations that exist now for Tesla vehicles.

As far as our power grid not being able to carry the new load, that hasn't stopped our gov't from promoting and subsidizing more wind power generator fields that can't be utilized during peak wind conditions. All because the power grid can't handle it. (I hate looking at those things, they just clutter the view of the countryside IMO. Oh yah, and they kill endangered bird species

). But again, the power grid will get upgraded one way or the other.

I think all of the problems you list will be solved. They'll have to be. And Uber and Lyft may take care of the transportation requirements of those who can't afford all the costs of owning a vehicle. Plus, they'll be self driving.....another technology that's coming fast and furious. Its a brave new world.

Rusty · 12-19-2017, 06:42 PM

With the power grid. The N.I.M.B.Y group. (Not In My Back Yard) Has already shot down over 4 dozen transmission line up-grades, new lines, and sub-stations in the last 10 years that I know of.

Wind and solar depend on gov't subsidies. Without that. They would not be cost efficient. They would operate at a lost. Nuke is the cheapest to produce electric, followed by natural gas, coal. Wind and solar are the most expensive.

I seen the truck video. And the comments from the truckers I have talked to. They all wonder if it will go 500,000 miles before needing heavy maintenance. And are scared of what a battery replacement would cost. They seem to think that the truck would be better suited to inter-city delivery then long haul.

SouthArk370Z · 12-19-2017, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larso1

... But again, the power grid will get upgraded one way or the other. ...

Not impossible but, IMNSHO, it's highly unlikely that there will be any major upgrades to the electrical grid.
Running more long-distance lines is very expensive. In many urban areas, there's not enough room to run more lines. More generating capacity is expensive and takes a long time to build.
And then you have to deal with the NIMBYs.

My prediction is that much of the recharging power will come from solar panels or other "non-grid" sources.

YMMV

Rusty · 12-19-2017, 07:15 PM

A 600 to 700 MW natural gas combine cycle 2 on 1 (2 gas turbines and 1 steam turbine) power plant takes 18 months to build and costs about $500,000,000 depending on area. They have to be close to water for cooling, gas supply, and grid hook up. Farther away, the higher the cost. If it runs 24/7 at close to max load. It will pay for it's self in about 4 years. Getting permits is another thing. That may take years.

Wind turbines produce about 3 MW's each on a good day (the new ones, 300ft). Cost about $250,000 each. Takes 30 years to pay for it's self. Plus they have to be built where the wind conditions are just right. Low wind will not produce enough electric. Too high of wind will over-speed the turbines, and kill them. When wind speeds are over around 25 mph. They lock the blades in place so that they don't spin, and turn them to a neutral position. So now it's not producing anything. Most of the wind farms are in the mid-west. I'm waiting to see a tornado wipe a farm out. Then see what the experts say.

Felix 808 · 12-20-2017, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

Wind turbines produce about 3 MW's each on a good day (the new ones, 300ft). Cost about $250,000 each. Takes 30 years to pay for it's self. Plus they have to be built where the wind conditions are just right. Low wind will not produce enough electric. Too high of wind will over-speed the turbines, and kill them. When wind speeds are over around 25 mph. They lock the blades in place so that they don't spin, and turn them to a neutral position. So now it's not producing anything. Most of the wind farms are in the mid-west. I'm waiting to see a tornado wipe a farm out. Then see what the experts say.

Yep

, Wind power is usually nothing more than a big bird blender. While the turbines have brakes to control the rotor speeds, the systems are a maintenance headache. Let the rotors get out of balance & lose the breaks, look out. I've seen more than one rotor separate from the generator & tower. They are not a consistent source of energy and as mentioned the return on investment blows. You'll be lucky to see a return on investment over the true life of the equipment & taking away subsidies.

Oh & back on topic, I kind of wish they would pull the plug on the Z if they have no plans to update anything.

Zoren 370 · 12-20-2017, 10:56 AM

having a new model Z would only make it worst the on going depreciation of the 370Z to a level even a 18 year old could afford it.

Very sad. But it is what it is.

Do we need to close this thread? I think Im still hving fun with an electric Vibrator...massager on my back!

Rusty · 12-20-2017, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felix 808

Yep

, Wind power is usually nothing more than a big bird blender. While the turbines have brakes to control the rotor speeds, the systems are a maintenance headache. Let the rotors get out of balance & lose the breaks, look out. I've seen more than one rotor separate from the generator & tower. They are not a consistent source of energy and as mentioned the return on investment blows. You'll be lucky to see a return on investment over the true life of the equipment & taking away subsidies.

Oh & back on topic, I kind of wish they would pull the plug on the Z if they have no plans to update anything.

Wind turbines are a maintenance headache. They are constantly re-torquing the bolting. I've had a couple of job offers to work at wind farms. Tuned them all down.

Felix 808 · 12-20-2017, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

Wind turbines are a maintenance headache. They are constantly re-torquing the bolting. I've had a couple of job offers to work at wind farms. Tuned them all down.

Yep, I actually oversee the maintenance schedules on a small wind farm.
We have (7) 100 KW towers. The funny/ Sad thing is, we don't even have enough load to dump the energy we create & no way to store it. Money well wasted. We got ripped off for sure & suckered into the "Sustainability" B.S.

Rusty · 12-20-2017, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felix 808

Yep, I actually oversee the maintenance schedules on a small wind farm.
We have (7) 100 KW towers. The funny/ Sad thing is, we don't even have enough load to dump the energy we create & no way to store it. Money well wasted. We got ripped off for sure & suckered into the "Sustainability" B.S.

I worked for Duke Energy and Dynegy. As senior CRO at a 2 on 1 combine cycle. Also was the head of maintenance. The plant is in the PJM grid. PJM regulates load by price per MW. So the load is always changing. High price, you go up in load. Low price, you come down in load. I've seen the prices as high as $2,000 per MW. And low as minus $200 MW.

You might as well pull the plug at those prices. Most grid operators give each plant a pre-set load for each hour. You have 10 minutes before and 10 minutes after the hour to match your load schedule. If you are not matching after the 10 minutes. You pay a penalty.

If your plant trips off line. You have to buy MW's from another generator at market prices. Hopefully it's not at the 2 peak period times during the day. If it is. You can lose all of your week's profit in a few hours. If it's off peak. You can make money by not running.

ZeeingAround · 01-24-2018, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felix 808

Yep, I actually oversee the maintenance schedules on a small wind farm.
We have (7) 100 KW towers. The funny/ Sad thing is, we don't even have enough load to dump the energy we create & no way to store it. Money well wasted. We got ripped off for sure & suckered into the "Sustainability" B.S.

There are several ideas to dump the "waste" energy as you call it.
Why is there not a synchronous inverter to sell it back to the utility?
Why is there not a battery bank for storage?
You could also dump it into a large insulated water storage tank to offset water heating costs?
Or my favorite,
Run the excess energy into the largest Tesla coil you can find.

12-19-2017, 06:42 PM	#2 (permalink)
Rusty A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 70 Posts: 35,581 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684440	With the power grid. The N.I.M.B.Y group. (Not In My Back Yard) Has already shot down over 4 dozen transmission line up-grades, new lines, and sub-stations in the last 10 years that I know of. Wind and solar depend on gov't subsidies. Without that. They would not be cost efficient. They would operate at a lost. Nuke is the cheapest to produce electric, followed by natural gas, coal. Wind and solar are the most expensive. I seen the truck video. And the comments from the truckers I have talked to. They all wonder if it will go 500,000 miles before needing heavy maintenance. And are scared of what a battery replacement would cost. They seem to think that the truck would be better suited to inter-city delivery then long haul. Felix 808 likes this. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html Last edited by Rusty; 12-19-2017 at 06:47 PM.

12-19-2017, 07:15 PM	#4 (permalink)
Rusty A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky Age: 70 Posts: 35,581 Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M Rep Power: 2684440	A 600 to 700 MW natural gas combine cycle 2 on 1 (2 gas turbines and 1 steam turbine) power plant takes 18 months to build and costs about $500,000,000 depending on area. They have to be close to water for cooling, gas supply, and grid hook up. Farther away, the higher the cost. If it runs 24/7 at close to max load. It will pay for it's self in about 4 years. Getting permits is another thing. That may take years. Wind turbines produce about 3 MW's each on a good day (the new ones, 300ft). Cost about $250,000 each. Takes 30 years to pay for it's self. Plus they have to be built where the wind conditions are just right. Low wind will not produce enough electric. Too high of wind will over-speed the turbines, and kill them. When wind speeds are over around 25 mph. They lock the blades in place so that they don't spin, and turn them to a neutral position. So now it's not producing anything. Most of the wind farms are in the mid-west. I'm waiting to see a tornado wipe a farm out. Then see what the experts say. Felix 808 and Kzonts like this. __________________ 浪人 - 殺し屋 "The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only" http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html

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12-20-2017, 10:56 AM	#6 (permalink)
Zoren 370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: FL Posts: 11,018 Drives: 11 Nissan 370 M6 Rep Power: 1913655	having a new model Z would only make it worst the on going depreciation of the 370Z to a level even a 18 year old could afford it. Very sad. But it is what it is. Do we need to close this thread? I think Im still hving fun with an electric Vibrator...massager on my back!