Is Nissan retiring the Z after 2018

SOUTHZZ

Forget all the "retiring" crap.
I have been a life-long Z guy.

The current Z34&the great Z33 are fantastic vehicles to cost effectively mold into
what you want.
There are an abundance of parts available at affordable prices to make the car be
what you want.
I've been fortunate to own both a Z33&Z34.
My 34 is pretty much unmodified accept for some body CF.
On the contrary,the Z33 is very much removed from stock.
Besides max Nismo upgrades,carbon aero parts sets it apart.
An original/one owner 350z,with mods ,I am asked,if this is the NEW Z...

Don't worry,plenty of room to upgrade your Z at a cost effective scale.
Should you desire.

MaysEffect

Lastly on the topic of hypothetical powerplants, there is generally no return in investments for companies to produce powerplants with greater effieciency then what its currently at, thus we may not see these vast improvements unless there is a major shift in chemical design in the coming years with similar pricing and implementation.

For the longest time companies would never have considered electric motors given the trade off of increased weight for typical batteries and extreme cost if Lithium. Now that Lithium production has increased tenfold compared to a decade ago, the cost has come into a reasonable window for it to be used mainstream. I'm still curious too what exactly allowed this boom in production, but we can thank whatever it was for the growing use of electric technology.

kbc749

I would happily swap my Z's drivetrain for the drivetrain out of a Model S. Nissan just needs to figure out that electric cars need to be fun, then bring the Z car back that way. Problem is every company except Tesla makes s*** slow electric cars. Nismo Leaf at least attempts to not be ugly and boring, but 8 second 0-60 isn't enough to make me give up my Z. Now the original Tesla Roadster on the other hand. I'd take that over the Z. or at the same time, or idk, at least it makes it a tough choice.

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MaysEffect

Not really a logical comparison. The leaf is a $20k ecobox, Tesla makes $60k+ luxury sports cars. The motors are bigger the battery capacity is significantly larger and the power conversion is greater. The fastest top of the line tesla is over 120k$. Its like comparing a Versa to a Gt-r. Just because they share similar technology doesn't mean much. Ultimately large corporations can't/won't take the risk like Tesla is doing investing unnecessary amounts of money into a different business model.

This is a pretty daft argument for the average joe, but Tesla's are not the fastest cars overall. They are fastest where it counts (0-60mph). Outside of this, supercars of similar price have no problem running it down to 80-140+mph. Again, something that is relatively unimportant in the real world on regulated streets considering anything over 80mph should be jail time in America. Luckily it's just a expensive fine at the least.

Larso1

It's happening. CNBC this morning:

"Toyota to make over 10 battery EV models in early 2020s"

Published 10 Hours Ago
Reuters:

"Toyota Motor on Monday said it will market more than 10 all-electric vehicle models globally in the early 2020s.

"The investment to develop their batteries is likely to exceed $13 billion through 2030.
The world's second-biggest automaker by sales said it needed to accelerate the pace of battery development."

Apparently they plan on partnering with Panasonic for battery development and supply.

kbc749

What I am saying is that:
Electric cars are fast. The torque is instant, and that makes a fun driving experience.

Electric cars, outside of Teslas, and other stuff like the Rimac One and other mega expensive cars, are ugly. So no one is buying them for looks.

Electric cars, outside of Teslas etc, are slow. And they aren't slow because the tech is outrageously expensive and unattainable. They are slow because they are made to be econoboxes.

But we all know that the miata is not powerful. yet it is heralded as one of the best drivers cars of all time. The ND 2.0L Miata has 158bhp and 148lbs/ft. But the leaf, with the largest battery pack that Nissan sells is 110 hp and 210lbs/ft.

So the leaf is technically torquier than a miata. Currently the way that it is sold. Weight then, is the next major issue, because batteries weight more. So the battery system, according to wikipedia, is 480lbs. Whereas the Miata's engine weighs.. well I can't find an easy number, so the I4 that I found statistics for weighs 300lbs so lets say that, to be on the safe side?

So the Leaf's power pack and motor combination that is currently for sale is pretty close to inline with that of the current generation MX5.

And remember, torque in an electric motor is how much current you put through the motor, and horsepower is effectively how many volts the motor has. This has limitations as does anything else (comparable to forged internals except basically just windings of the motor and cooling). So the cost to make a faster Leaf, to Nissan, is simply to make a better battery pack. And that would benefit all of their cars that were are electric.

No one is going to jump out of their skin to buy and ugly and boring car, just to save the planet. People, as a whole, are not motivated by that. But I'm saying car manufacturers could make a fun electric car. They are choosing not to.

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MaysEffect

Not a fan of the use of the word "development", portrays the outlook that they are making some new technology. In reality all they're doing is implementing a current design in a form factor most suitable for their cars.

Rusty

Electric cars are coming faster then what we think. The problems I see for now with the electric car is range, charging time, battery replacement costs, and inter-structure for recharging. They will figure some of this out, but not all of it.

I drive cross country alot. Mostly from Pittsburgh to Denver and back. Takes about 14 hrs one way. How long will it take me with an electric car? Days? Close to a week? I get about 400 miles out of a tank of gas. Electric is limited to what? 200 miles or so. Takes me about 10 minutes to fill up. How long does it take to recharge the battery? Hours? How many place are there for recharging on a interstate? I've only seen one place. And it was close to a city. You won't find any on I70 or I80. So much for taking a long road trip in the future.

Battery replacement for now is about 1/3 the cost of the car. Because of this. Low end families are going to be hurting. You'll end up with less people driving. And what are you going to do with the old batteries? If you're in an accident. Now you have to fear from getting executed. Survive the wreck, then get zapped getting out of the car.

Another problem. Being in power generation for years. Our grid right now can not handle a massive increase in electric cars today. Transmission lines will have to be up-graded and new lines put up. And guess what. You will have the N.I.M.B.Y group yelling about the new lines. So until you fix that problem. You may be looking at brown outs.

And lets not forget about the big one. TAXES. Instead of paying road taxes with each gallon of gas. You will be paying for each mile driven. Two ways of what the gov't is thinking. Pay at the time of each recharge. Or pay yearly for each mile. That will be a big bill!

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Tony Ramos

Larso1

As you say, they'll figure it out. Right now, with just a few EV models on the market, one is already getting over 300 miles per charge. Tesla must be confident because they are about to produce an over-the-road, all electric rig. (You've probably seen the concept photos).

Motor Week showed a battery pak replacement "station" where the vehicle drives over, and is positioned over, a lift that extends up to the battery pack, lowers it below surface, and raises a new fully charged battery pack into place under the car. It worked slick, and was fast. That's one possible solution besides "quick charge" stations that exist now for Tesla vehicles.

As far as our power grid not being able to carry the new load, that hasn't stopped our gov't from promoting and subsidizing more wind power generator fields that can't be utilized during peak wind conditions. All because the power grid can't handle it. (I hate looking at those things, they just clutter the view of the countryside IMO. Oh yah, and they kill endangered bird species). But again, the power grid will get upgraded one way or the other.

I think all of the problems you list will be solved. They'll have to be. And Uber and Lyft may take care of the transportation requirements of those who can't afford all the costs of owning a vehicle. Plus, they'll be self driving.....another technology that's coming fast and furious. Its a brave new world.

Rusty

With the power grid. The N.I.M.B.Y group. (Not In My Back Yard) Has already shot down over 4 dozen transmission line up-grades, new lines, and sub-stations in the last 10 years that I know of.

Wind and solar depend on gov't subsidies. Without that. They would not be cost efficient. They would operate at a lost. Nuke is the cheapest to produce electric, followed by natural gas, coal. Wind and solar are the most expensive.

I seen the truck video. And the comments from the truckers I have talked to. They all wonder if it will go 500,000 miles before needing heavy maintenance. And are scared of what a battery replacement would cost. They seem to think that the truck would be better suited to inter-city delivery then long haul.

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SouthArk370Z

Not impossible but, IMNSHO, it's highly unlikely that there will be any major upgrades to the electrical grid.
Running more long-distance lines is very expensive. In many urban areas, there's not enough room to run more lines. More generating capacity is expensive and takes a long time to build.
And then you have to deal with the NIMBYs.

My prediction is that much of the recharging power will come from solar panels or other "non-grid" sources.

YMMV

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Rusty

A 600 to 700 MW natural gas combine cycle 2 on 1 (2 gas turbines and 1 steam turbine) power plant takes 18 months to build and costs about $500,000,000 depending on area. They have to be close to water for cooling, gas supply, and grid hook up. Farther away, the higher the cost. If it runs 24/7 at close to max load. It will pay for it's self in about 4 years. Getting permits is another thing. That may take years.

Wind turbines produce about 3 MW's each on a good day (the new ones, 300ft). Cost about $250,000 each. Takes 30 years to pay for it's self. Plus they have to be built where the wind conditions are just right. Low wind will not produce enough electric. Too high of wind will over-speed the turbines, and kill them. When wind speeds are over around 25 mph. They lock the blades in place so that they don't spin, and turn them to a neutral position. So now it's not producing anything. Most of the wind farms are in the mid-west. I'm waiting to see a tornado wipe a farm out. Then see what the experts say.

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Benibiker

Electric cars and all... This is why our government should be getting ahead of all this, new technologies to improve power generation and transmission, not going back to coal and drilling for more oil. The US is going to be left behind with China and others taking the lead. We just have to get used to idea of smelling hot electronics coming from a car instead of the smell of oil, gas, and exhaust. An electric Z with the acceleration of a Tesla and with the same range would be awesome!

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Rusty

If it has a range of 400 miles, recharge in about 15 minutes, run and handled like my Nismo. I'm all for it.

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