STILLEN Exhaust & Gen 3 Intake Dynos - 18hp Each!

Denny McLain · 02-17-2009, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by in.the.dark

I think the A/F is key as well. Therefore, I would greatly apprecieate the A/F readings for all pulls.

Thanks. I'm looking forward to the results.

Getting the Air/Fuel correct is the most important aspect of tuning. Typically you do not see a tremendous amount of gain over a production tune. As a rule of thumb 5 up to 15hp with 15hp being on the high side, however I've seen gains over 30 on occasions. Usually very little is gained in timing adjustment, but we'll see as every car and every brand is different.

The SAE text books tell you 12.7 for max power. In my experience this is not correct and depends upon the particular type of car and even will vary slightly among individual cars. Most tuners today tune for around 13.0 to 1. Pro Stock cars run optimally in the mid 14 to 1 range.

Dynos don't lie and neither do wideband 02 sensors if functioning correctly. We'll see later what these cars like as again.......it's a clean sheet of paper.

Will post later today what a 100% stock 370Z makes with 150 miles on it along with stock Air/Fuel ratio's.

Denny McLain · 02-17-2009, 11:41 AM

Fresh from dyno.

Three baseline runs were done to find the sweat spot for testing temp and a 4th run done removing the air filters to see the effects. All runs are SAE corrected utilizing a dynojet dyno.

The first run was with an oil temp of 180 (usually do water temp, but being none are available) which yielded 277/231 torque. After five minutes a second pull was done with an oil temp just under 200 degrees which yielded the best run of the three of 275/240. (fyi 282/246 std) Even though peak is slightly less, the overall power was significantly more. A third run was done with an oil temp of 220 with power going down to 273/236 indicating the car likes oil temps just under 200 degrees. Really wish I could do better water temp readings as this is usually what I go by in establishing a baseline for consistency.

The car was allowed to cool down to 195 oil temps (best run temp), the air filters removed and redynoed. The results were 274/239 which tells me I may have pissed away 90 bucks buying the Corsworth high flow filters making me even more skeptical of an 18 hp gain in just intake.

Air/fuel ratio are pretty rich for a N/A setup mostly in the mid to high 11 to 1 range which tells me one of two things: These care either like it rich, or the factory is sandbagging. Tuning software should answer that question.

Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

Also for poops n grins we pulled dyno sheet up of a 350Z. No offense to the 350 people, woe....glad I bought a 370.

Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

If anyone is slicker (probably a ton) than me at embedding images into posts...I send the scanned file and you can add.

Scribe · 02-17-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny McLain

Fresh from dyno.

Three baseline runs were done to find the sweat spot for testing temp and a 4th run done removing the air filters to see the effects. All runs are SAE corrected utilizing a dynojet dyno.

The first run was with an oil temp of 180 (usually do water temp, but being none are available) which yielded 277/231 torque. After five minutes a second pull was done with an oil temp just under 200 degrees which yielded the best run of the three of 275/240. (fyi 282/246 std) Even though peak is slightly less, the overall power was significantly more. A third run was done with an oil temp of 220 with power going down to 273/236 indicating the car likes oil temps just under 200 degrees. Really wish I could do better water temp readings as this is usually what I go by in establishing a baseline for consistency.

The car was allowed to cool down to 195 oil temps (best run temp), the air filters removed and redynoed. The results were 274/239 which tells me I may have pissed away 90 bucks buying the Corsworth high flow filters making me even more skeptical of an 18 hp gain in just intake.

Air/fuel ratio are pretty rich for a N/A setup mostly in the mid to high 11 to 1 range which tells me one of two things: These care either like it rich, or the factory is sandbagging. Tuning software should answer that question.

Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

Also for poops n grins we pulled dyno sheet up of a 350Z. No offense to the 350 people, woe....glad I bought a 370.

Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

If anyone is slicker (probably a ton) than me at embedding images into posts...I send the scanned file and you can add.

Thanks for sharing. Send me a link to the pictures and I'll embed them. While viewing the image in your photobucket gallery, right-click the image and copy the address from where it says Address (URL).

This does lend itself to the theory that the gains from the aftermarket intakes may be solely due to the change in tune. If that's the case, as simple 93 specific reflash may be all we need on the intake side (for those of us fortunate enough to live in a 93 octane state).

Denny McLain · 02-17-2009, 12:13 PM

Sorry guy, all I have is the scanned dyno sheets and putting them in photobucket. Can send the scanned files.

The only weak link is the gas is from the dealership original new car fill and I have no clue as to the octane. Thought about that on the way into the dyno maybe at least putting some 93 in the tank but not sure how the computer recognizes or would even recognize?? Got a lot to learn on how to tweak these cars. That's OK......... I'll learn.

Josh....... I'll do for you what I've have done for other aftermarket vendors on numerous occasions. Send me an intake, I'll follow your dyno directions to the T with witnesses, and if it does what you say....... The check/credit card is in the mail. However, if it doesn't......the intake is in the mail. Up for a challenge??

Welcome to the "pucker zone." Amazing how many decline....wonder why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by in.the.dark

Thanks for sharing. Send me a link to the pictures and I'll embed them. While viewing the image in your photobucket gallery, right-click the image and copy the address from where it says Address (URL).

This does lend itself to the theory that the gains from the aftermarket intakes may be solely due to the change in tune. If that's the case, as simple 93 specific reflash may be all we need on the intake side (for those of us fortunate enough to live in a 93 octane state).

370ZDreamer · 02-17-2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny McLain

Guys

New to the 370 list as I just purchased a new 370Z the end of last week. However, pretty darn salty at hot rodding cars being a former dyno shop sponced racer currently owning the highest hp N/A street driven C4 on the Vetter forum. This particular car has had over 1000 dyno pulls and there is literally nothing stock in the engine. 12.5 to 1 398ci trying 3 different of heads and a dozen different cams to get the combo worked out. Time for a new challenge.

With that said.........In a new learning curve and I'm looking for effective mods and objective independent dyno restults to back up their effectiveness. And.......no, I don't trust any of the shops and yes.....I know the dyno tricks.

I have some issues with this Stillen post. First, they are an old reputible shop and posting individual results from an intake and exhaust is nice; but why isn't the results of both posted?? Something doesn't appear exactly right to me.

Already tried to purchase (if the frickin shop will call or e-mail me back) a set of high flow cat as that makes sense. Will have the car dynoed bone stock for a rwhp and fuel/air baseline. Will install the cats and will post the results.

In looking at the exhaust, I see quite a bit of room for improvement but the stock intake doesn't appear all that bad. So exactly where is the restriction that causes the 18 hp loss??

The stock intake is cold air with twin filters which appear to be more than sufficantly large enough to support 300rwhp plus. After trying three different intake systems on my Vette I went back to a modified stock setup with a K+N filter. The car currently makes over 470 rwhp and has made as high as 480+ with the same modified stock intake.

So where is the objective independent results?? I'm a buyer!! But, ya got to prove it to me.

I agree, I need more proof too, and to the guy who said air/fuels will remain the same. Take a look at the dyno's done so far of exhaust components. The air/fuels did not remain the same, and coming from a tuning background in Ford's myself, that is what I would have expected.

Scribe · 02-17-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny McLain

Sorry guy, all I have is the scanned dyno sheets and putting them in photobucket. Can send the scanned files.

The only weak link is the gas is from the dealership original new car fill and I have no clue as to the octane. Thought about that on the way into the dyno maybe at least putting some 93 in the tank but not sure how the computer recognizes or would even recognize?? Got a lot to learn on how to tweak these cars. That's OK......... I'll learn.

Josh....... I'll do for you what I've have done for other aftermarket vendors on numerous occasions. Send me an intake, I'll follow your dyno directions to the T with witnesses, and if it does what you say....... The check/credit card is in the mail. However, if it doesn't......the intake is in the mail. Up for a challenge??

Welcome to the "pucker zone." Amazing how many decline....wonder why?

Just upload them and I'll take care of the rest. Like this:

RCZ · 02-17-2009, 06:47 PM

I like the challenge, I'm definitely watching this thread now. Things just got interesting...

If it equals the claimed power gains I'll buy one immediately.

par4bmw · 02-17-2009, 09:05 PM

If it comes within 20% of its claims I am in

Scribe · 02-17-2009, 09:56 PM

Denny's run?

RCZ · 02-17-2009, 10:31 PM

did a child draw that? its cute.

Crash · 02-17-2009, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by in.the.dark

Just upload them and I'll take care of the rest. Like this:

I see an LT4 plenum, am I right?... Kind of surprised to see the stock intake. Those corrugated intakes were terrible. (Removed the one on my C4 almost right away)

Denny McLain · 02-18-2009, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crash

I see an LT4 plenum, am I right?... Kind of surprised to see the stock intake. Those corrugated intakes were terrible. (Removed the one on my C4 almost right away)

After trying a couple different cold air intakes and literally throwing a Breathless Industries cold air intake (piece of crap) in the trash, went back to the stock intake. The car lost about 12 hp instead dynoing 472 SAE (481 std) it went flat on top around 460 rwhp telling me it was incapable of flowing enough air.

Instead of digging the Breathless out of the trash; examined the stock setup very close, it appeared there was no room directly underneath the K&N filter. I took a stock filter, cut the guts out and used as a spacer. The car dynoed in the 470's again. Removed it completely and the car dynoed the same w/ w/o, so the intake is not an issue if additional space is provided under the filter.

Proof is in the pudding, dyno sheet also on that website...........highest N/A street driven LTx C4 on the Corvette Forums. Just a matter of figuring out how to make things work and the smooth billows are not necessary.

Speaking of......... "How to make things work". The general conscience at the dyno shop yesterday is to do twin turbos. I agree, but I'm going to play a bit more tweaking a N/A setup as my observation and conjecture is there is power to be had in a tune and exhaust. The exhaust systems looks weak and that will be my next project but already having second thoughts about buying a Y pipe. Like the true dual notion better but I've been wrong before.

We'll see what the dyno says.

Denny McLain · 02-18-2009, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

did a child draw that? its cute.

That was comparing my best SAE run yesterday with a 350Z run that was on file. The reason you see it breakup is due to the ignition feed and not getting a good spark signal for rpm. The other sheet posted comparing removing the filters is much better and doesn't breakup.

RCZ · 02-18-2009, 11:57 AM

Im just giving you crap

keeping the thread going until Josh answers..

Denny McLain · 02-18-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

Im just giving you crap

keeping the thread going until Josh answers..

In that case..... I'll help.

The honest to god truth is I hope the intake is everything they say and more. Certainly in my best interest. But man, that's a ton to gain on a small motor whose intake doesn't look all that bad to begin with. Hope I'm proven wrong.

Problem I've ran into virtually my entire hotrodding career is rarely does something produce what it's hyped to be and in many cases needs modification to just fit or work. The term is: "racers net" Which means if you want it to work, you got to make it work.

Unfortunately not necessarily entirely completely in the hands of the people making and promoting the products. First, if someone is honest and they say it only makes 10hp extra........ no one buys it. They buy it from the guy who says theirs makes 25hp. Rarely also are items dyno certified for gains. They brag and talk a bunch of smack to their buds about how much power their car makes w/o even knowing what it really makes. How urban legends start and shaky companies stay in business.

Same for the big name shops who provide dyno sheets for their big buck buildups. Who really bothers to have another shop dyno the car for verification?? Hell, ya got a dyno sheet with it didn't ya? Could not even begin to tell you the times I've seen cars with dyno sheets fall way short of what they thought they paid for when put on an independent dyno.

JC Whitney marketing at it best.

02-17-2009, 06:47 PM	#52 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1118	I like the challenge, I'm definitely watching this thread now. Things just got interesting... If it equals the claimed power gains I'll buy one immediately. Last edited by RCZ; 02-17-2009 at 07:33 PM.

02-17-2009, 09:05 PM	#53 (permalink)
par4bmw Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 267 Drives: 09 370 M6 Touring/Sp Rep Power: 445	If it comes within 20% of its claims I am in __________________ I tellya what, its got this s-mode thing down here...it moveees so incredibly... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7JsL...e=channel_page

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02-17-2009, 11:41 AM	#47 (permalink)
Denny McLain Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Double Oak Tx Posts: 255 Drives: 370Z, 96CE hotrod Rep Power: 16	Fresh from dyno. Three baseline runs were done to find the sweat spot for testing temp and a 4th run done removing the air filters to see the effects. All runs are SAE corrected utilizing a dynojet dyno. The first run was with an oil temp of 180 (usually do water temp, but being none are available) which yielded 277/231 torque. After five minutes a second pull was done with an oil temp just under 200 degrees which yielded the best run of the three of 275/240. (fyi 282/246 std) Even though peak is slightly less, the overall power was significantly more. A third run was done with an oil temp of 220 with power going down to 273/236 indicating the car likes oil temps just under 200 degrees. Really wish I could do better water temp readings as this is usually what I go by in establishing a baseline for consistency. The car was allowed to cool down to 195 oil temps (best run temp), the air filters removed and redynoed. The results were 274/239 which tells me I may have pissed away 90 bucks buying the Corsworth high flow filters making me even more skeptical of an 18 hp gain in just intake. Air/fuel ratio are pretty rich for a N/A setup mostly in the mid to high 11 to 1 range which tells me one of two things: These care either like it rich, or the factory is sandbagging. Tuning software should answer that question. Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket Also for poops n grins we pulled dyno sheet up of a 350Z. No offense to the 350 people, woe....glad I bought a 370. Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket If anyone is slicker (probably a ton) than me at embedding images into posts...I send the scanned file and you can add.

02-17-2009, 09:56 PM	#54 (permalink)
Scribe Base Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Houston, TX. Posts: 182 Drives: Touring-Sport-Manual Rep Power: 220	Denny's run?

02-17-2009, 10:31 PM	#55 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1118	did a child draw that? its cute.

02-18-2009, 11:57 AM	#59 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1118	Im just giving you crap keeping the thread going until Josh answers..