GTM MHI Kit Group Buy Participants...

rxdo · 06-10-2014, 09:51 AM

I no longer own a Z and i still check this thread at least twice weekly, Ill admit I'm enthralled by the drama, however I really hope that people get either their refund or the product they purchased. I know there are two sides to every story, but come on guys, this is over a year past due, w/o updates there is no excuse for this. The fact that GTM is allowed to remain a vendor on this forum has me

Anyway, hope everyone gets what they want/deserve

1slow370 · 06-10-2014, 12:00 AM

many initial group buys and preorders are done on the same premises, THAT'S WHY THEY GIVE YOU ******* DISCOUNT, a group of people pays to develop a product in exchange they get a one time only price at a low margin for participating in it. IT's the same concept as offering your car for development in exchange for a reduced price on the final product.

Even if they fail unless you can prove in court that they had no intention of making good on the product you are not likely to win a case for fraud and the best you could hope for is getting your money back with no compensation for time or interest

Berk did the same thing with the initial exhaust group buy, they had one developed, started a group buy to cover manufacture and tooling costs, it ended up taking longer than expected, the units had problems which took even longer to resolve, went something like 6 months past the initial 3-4weeks, they had to refund several guys, in the end they shipped, everyone got their exhaust and was happy and now they can offer it for normal sale. Are you telling me I should go hit up Berk for my stock options and dividends?

If I sent my car as a test car to you so you could come up with a new product are you going to give me a percentage of all future sales? hell no but you might give me a discount.

Also like I said that is just one case of what could have happened, maybe the group buy was never intended to fund the r&d at all, and other complications came up that slowed it down and funding was never the issue. My point is there a lots of ways for this to have happened without involving deliberate fraud,

Edit:If you are saying you would do this "If I sent my car as a test car to you so you could come up with a new product are you going to give me a percentage of all future sales?" let me know if you ever need a test car partner

Dajerseyrat · 06-10-2014, 07:38 AM

Actually my post was an attempt at sarcasm...You quoting the Berk Group buy that went 6 months over the 3-4 week comparison pales in comparison to something that is over a year in the making and has many people worried with rumors of pending bankruptcy..

From past experiences, legitimate "GROUP BUYS" are done for shops to do their buy ins with companies, or companies are releasing their new product that they already have made and want to get it to the market. I have never heard of group buy participants actually funding the R&D and development of a product that was supposed to already have been done and bragged as "superior" to any of the competitors in typical GTM fashion..

Either you have something to sell, or your looking for investors..The people should have been informed that their deposits were going to fund continued R&D of something not yet perfected or produced. IMHO just omitting that little fact, constitutes deceptive business practices..

Dzel · 06-10-2014, 09:52 AM

I paid in full and received my money in full within 2 weeks. The fact that people now have to wait months for a refund alone shows that GTM is going through issues. This is why I stated and you proved my point when you said that "other" projects are moving along. But you just like everyone else have no idea whats going on with the MHI kit. If Sam was so excited to show you the projects, why did he not show you the progress on the MHI? Maybe because there is none???

All those projects cost money all of us know this, where is he getting that money from? For the last year his biggest source of income was us and the G37 forums. Last I would say 8 months have really been bad for GTM in the sense of PR.

Both GTM and FI came out with the group buy at the very same time. Guess how many kits FI have put out... How many updates have been given... so on and so forth.

Either way I'm over here getting ready to break into the 10's and most of you are still waiting for your money back. That alone shows there is something wrong.

DEpointfive0 · 06-10-2014, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzel

I paid in full and received my money in full within 2 weeks. The fact that people now have to wait months for a refund alone shows that GTM is going through issues. This is why I stated and you proved my point when you said that "other" projects are moving along. But you just like everyone else have no idea whats going on with the MHI kit. If Sam was so excited to show you the projects, why did he not show you the progress on the MHI? Maybe because there is none???

All those projects cost money all of us know this, where is he getting that money from? For the last year his biggest source of income was us and the G37 forums. Last I would say 8 months have really been bad for GTM in the sense of PR.

Both GTM and FI came out with the group buy at the very same time. Guess how many kits FI have put out... How many updates have been given... so on and so forth.

Either way I'm over here getting ready to break into the 10's and most of you are still waiting for your money back. That alone shows there is something wrong.

Just to address this... How many GTM kits have been put out? While you may think it's 0, it's more than FI has put out.

The other thing that I think is funny is that people think GTM is making money on this kit because of the presales. LOOOL. What presales? All 13? Which is now 3 or something. I agree that for sure they are using Peter to pay Paul, but not within this group buy.

MMC Racing · 06-10-2014, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEpointfive0

Just to address this... How many GTM kits have been put out? While you may think it's 0, it's more than FI has put out.

The other thing that I think is funny is that people think GTM is making money on this kit because of the presales. LOOOL. What presales? All 13? Which is now 3 or something. I agree that for sure they are using Peter to pay Paul, but not within this group buy.

What you know could fill a GTM empty promise..

Dzel · 06-10-2014, 01:33 PM

No I meant the kits in each respectable group buy

Dzel · 06-10-2014, 06:19 PM

Sent with tapahoe

1slow370 · 06-10-2014, 06:29 PM

Took you a day and you come up with that? Dude get over it, you got your money, you don't even own a z anymore. He probably wasn't out to get you, things just didn't work out the way he over optimistically had hoped. To the 3 or 4 people who are still in it if you want a refund do what you have to do.

My whole point is you guys are screaming fraud, but this isn't fraud it's just bad business.

MMC Racing · 06-10-2014, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

Took you a day and you come up with that? Dude get over it, you got your money, you don't even own a z anymore. He probably wasn't out to get you, things just didn't work out the way he over optimistically had hoped. To the 3 or 4 people who are still in it if you want a refund do what you have to do.

My whole point is you guys are screaming fraud, but this isn't fraud it's just bad business.

What do you call Sam telling people to dispute the charges with their banks?

1slow370 · 06-10-2014, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMC Racing

What do you call Sam telling people to dispute the charges with their banks?

I call that hes probably out of liquid cash and instead of saying "i'll send it when I have the extra cash and time" it was "If you need it right now file the claim with your bank, I'll deal with having to work out payments to them, and you will get it back in a matter of days" I would be willing to bet that if some ones bank refuses to refund the money they could call and he would still send it when he can.

Edit: of course that reading into it so who knows what is really happening, maybe his dog ate the sheet with the original payment information and his checkbook.

Also like I said maybe funding isn't the issue and something is really just taking for ever this all just speculation anyway.

Remember he still has employees to pay, bills to pay, supplies to buy, running a company takes a lot of money and if he had to spend the leftovers on the r&d and now start covering 20+ refunds it may take a bit to do it all

Its just like the stock market folding up people start pulling their money out, there isn't enough there at the time all of a sudden everything starts to get affected and everyone screams foul play because it's real easy to point a finger at someone.

MMC Racing · 06-11-2014, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

I call that hes probably out of liquid cash and instead of saying "i'll send it when I have the extra cash and time" it was "If you need it right now file the claim with your bank, I'll deal with having to work out payments to them, and you will get it back in a matter of days" I would be willing to bet that if some ones bank refuses to refund the money they could call and he would still send it when he can.

Edit: of course that reading into it so who knows what is really happening, maybe his dog ate the sheet with the original payment information and his checkbook.

Also like I said maybe funding isn't the issue and something is really just taking for ever this all just speculation anyway.

Remember he still has employees to pay, bills to pay, supplies to buy, running a company takes a lot of money and if he had to spend the leftovers on the r&d and now start covering 20+ refunds it may take a bit to do it all

Its just like the stock market folding up people start pulling their money out, there isn't enough there at the time all of a sudden everything starts to get affected and everyone screams foul play because it's real easy to point a finger at someone.

Dzel · 06-10-2014, 06:34 PM

Lol!!!!

Sent with tapahoe

Dzel · 06-10-2014, 06:36 PM

Should of put "owns" would of been funnier....

Sent with tapahoe

1slow370 · 06-10-2014, 06:42 PM

while your at it at least downsize the fuckin things they take a whole page

06-10-2014, 12:00 AM	#2 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	many initial group buys and preorders are done on the same premises, THAT'S WHY THEY GIVE YOU ***** DISCOUNT, a group of people pays to develop a product in exchange they get a one time only price at a low margin for participating in it. IT's the same concept as offering your car for development in exchange for a reduced price on the final product. Even if they fail unless you can prove in court that they had no intention of making good on the product you are not likely to win a case for fraud and the best you could hope for is getting your money back with no compensation for time or interest Berk did the same thing with the initial exhaust group buy, they had one developed, started a group buy to cover manufacture and tooling costs, it ended up taking longer than expected, the units had problems which took even longer to resolve, went something like 6 months past the initial 3-4weeks, they had to refund several guys, in the end they shipped, everyone got their exhaust and was happy and now they can offer it for normal sale. Are you telling me I should go hit up Berk for my stock options and dividends? If I sent my car as a test car to you so you could come up with a new product are you going to give me a percentage of all future sales? hell no but you might give me a discount. Also like I said that is just one case of what could have happened, maybe the group buy was never intended to fund the r&d at all, and other complications came up that slowed it down and funding was never the issue. My point is there a lots of ways for this to have happened without involving deliberate fraud, Edit:If you are saying you would do this "If I sent my car as a test car to you so you could come up with a new product are you going to give me a percentage of all future sales?" let me know if you ever need a test car partner __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST** Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50 Last edited by 1slow370; 06-10-2014 at 12:46 AM.

06-10-2014, 09:52 AM	#4 (permalink)
Dzel A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: Midland, TX Posts: 3,884 Drives: 11 370Z PW M6 Rep Power: 24	I paid in full and received my money in full within 2 weeks. The fact that people now have to wait months for a refund alone shows that GTM is going through issues. This is why I stated and you proved my point when you said that "other" projects are moving along. But you just like everyone else have no idea whats going on with the MHI kit. If Sam was so excited to show you the projects, why did he not show you the progress on the MHI? Maybe because there is none??? All those projects cost money all of us know this, where is he getting that money from? For the last year his biggest source of income was us and the G37 forums. Last I would say 8 months have really been bad for GTM in the sense of PR. Both GTM and FI came out with the group buy at the very same time. Guess how many kits FI have put out... How many updates have been given... so on and so forth. Either way I'm over here getting ready to break into the 10's and most of you are still waiting for your money back. That alone shows there is something wrong. __________________ 10secWS6 IF YOU CAN'T SWING IT THEN DON'T BRING IT! Check out Domestic Performance C.C.

06-10-2014, 01:33 PM	#7 (permalink)
Dzel A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: Midland, TX Posts: 3,884 Drives: 11 370Z PW M6 Rep Power: 24	No I meant the kits in each respectable group buy __________________ 10secWS6 IF YOU CAN'T SWING IT THEN DON'T BRING IT! Check out Domestic Performance C.C.

06-10-2014, 06:19 PM	#8 (permalink)
Dzel A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: Midland, TX Posts: 3,884 Drives: 11 370Z PW M6 Rep Power: 24	Sent with tapahoe __________________ 10secWS6 IF YOU CAN'T SWING IT THEN DON'T BRING IT! Check out Domestic Performance C.C.

06-10-2014, 06:29 PM	#9 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	Took you a day and you come up with that? Dude get over it, you got your money, you don't even own a z anymore. He probably wasn't out to get you, things just didn't work out the way he over optimistically had hoped. To the 3 or 4 people who are still in it if you want a refund do what you have to do. My whole point is you guys are screaming fraud, but this isn't fraud it's just bad business. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50 Last edited by 1slow370; 06-10-2014 at 06:38 PM.

06-10-2014, 09:51 AM	#1 (permalink)
rxdo Base Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: south east Posts: 74 Drives: 370z-->C7 Rep Power: 14	I no longer own a Z and i still check this thread at least twice weekly, Ill admit I'm enthralled by the drama, however I really hope that people get either their refund or the product they purchased. I know there are two sides to every story, but come on guys, this is over a year past due, w/o updates there is no excuse for this. The fact that GTM is allowed to remain a vendor on this forum has me Anyway, hope everyone gets what they want/deserve

06-10-2014, 07:38 AM	#3 (permalink)
Dajerseyrat Base Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: NJ Posts: 33 Drives: 67 Camaro Rep Power: 12	Actually my post was an attempt at sarcasm...You quoting the Berk Group buy that went 6 months over the 3-4 week comparison pales in comparison to something that is over a year in the making and has many people worried with rumors of pending bankruptcy.. From past experiences, legitimate "GROUP BUYS" are done for shops to do their buy ins with companies, or companies are releasing their new product that they already have made and want to get it to the market. I have never heard of group buy participants actually funding the R&D and development of a product that was supposed to already have been done and bragged as "superior" to any of the competitors in typical GTM fashion.. Either you have something to sell, or your looking for investors..The people should have been informed that their deposits were going to fund continued R&D of something not yet perfected or produced. IMHO just omitting that little fact, constitutes deceptive business practices..

06-10-2014, 06:34 PM	#13 (permalink)
Dzel A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: Midland, TX Posts: 3,884 Drives: 11 370Z PW M6 Rep Power: 24	Lol!!!! Sent with tapahoe __________________ 10secWS6 IF YOU CAN'T SWING IT THEN DON'T BRING IT! Check out Domestic Performance C.C.

06-10-2014, 06:36 PM	#14 (permalink)
Dzel A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: Midland, TX Posts: 3,884 Drives: 11 370Z PW M6 Rep Power: 24	Should of put "owns" would of been funnier.... Sent with tapahoe __________________ 10secWS6 IF YOU CAN'T SWING IT THEN DON'T BRING IT! Check out Domestic Performance C.C.

06-10-2014, 06:42 PM	#15 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	while your at it at least downsize the fuckin things they take a whole page __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

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