Either way, my goal is to have a Stillen supercharger (hopefully twin-screw) pushing 450whp/350tq.

Totally unfounded speculation follows:

I was wondering today if this S/C is proving more tricky than they thought. Stillen knows that many people would want to track the car with the S/C on it and will keep that in mind when designing it. With all the issues cooling the stock motor, it may be difficult to find a way to keep it trackworthy with boost...

There may also be the CARB issues. They know we want 400 rwhp. That may be difficult to achieve and keep it CA legal.

Anyway, as I say, pure speculation... sorry if anyone came here hoping for an update.

I think part of it is to keep stock hood too, so they have to work around that also. Im not sure how much a regular SC give HP wise but with bolt ons we are at 300+ rwhp, so a SC would need to produce 80 - 100 rwhp. Im fine with 70 rwhp but the price would have to reflect the lower hp. I also wouldnt mind a slight mod to the hood as long as it keeps the lines it has on it if that would make it so they could use the other types of SCs.

You know what would be sweet if they sold a 2 sided pulley with the kit that when installed one way is set to california carb regulations and when put on the other way is set to normal for everyone else. Make it real obvious and have it say C.A.R.B legal on one side and NOT C.A.R.B LEGAL on the other.

^^^ LOL at "ghey mode"

I want to know about the G3 intakes if they will be compatible or everyone pretty much has to sell them for the new supercharger?? I think that is a question that should be answered, and it will give out no information really hurting the production of it.

It might hurt the sales of the G3 intakes though :p

In fact, since they haven't said anything, they most likely *do* replace the intakes. If they didn't, they would probably let us know. Besides, forced induction almost always requires custom intakes...

In order to fit the blower under the hood, I'm assuming they are making a custom intake plenum for the system, meaning different throttle body locations, could be a bit lower so fitment with the G3's may be an issue. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that no, they wont be compatible.

The fronts might be. Keep in mind that it's not a single piece all the way from the throttle bodies to the filters. I could see them tossing the back sections but keeping the front sections that actually pass through to the front of the radiator. This is completely speculative, of course.

Just out of curiousity, if the engine RPM is controlled by VVEL, then why bother with having throttle bodies?

It's not like they're really doing anything...just staying wide open, and being in the way.

Luckily all these ghey california owned shops can pull their johnson's out of their partner's posteriors long enough to make you cow milkers some parts.

Wow, that was a little uncalled for. He characterized CARB regulations as ghey, not California-owned shops (or any shops, for that matter).

Interesting....

Always...;)

hey i get a good idea everynow and then and don't tell me you wouldn't mind being able to turn a pulley around when headed in for inspection to be carb legal instead of having to completly de modify the car. So where's the MMC racing supercharger kit then? Wait forget that lets not start a fight and kill a thread that isn't going anywhere because nobody wants to talk to us. Oh and FYI it's a long term goal of mine to start a performance shop and sell kits but i need capitol and legal aid to do that so it's long term this isn't the united states of california you aren't the only state with performance companies by any means, just more heavily focused on the newer import trend (oh and japan puts you to shame at that).

I wasn't going to start a cali fight here but could you look a person in the eye and honestly say that C.A.R.B regulations are good for the automotive aftermarket and that you in no way didn't wish that you didn't have to find someway around the LAW in order to customize your vehicle the way you want? When the law keeps you from doing something you want to do that doesn't directly endanger others(Co2 isn't going to jump out and knife a baby especially when the airlines and power plants produce an amount that makes the performance car market simple a political buffalo) I'm sorry but I and the rest of America call that ghey and an impingement of my FREEDOMS. :tiphat:

Edit:some grammar fixes

oh and kannibul the throttle bodies are required to generate the vacuum needed for the power brake system and evaporative emissions systems as well as a back up in case there should be a problem with the vvel being stuck open causing a catastrophic accident(it isn't pretty when you put a driver who isn't experienced behind a car that is stuck at full throttle also the reason for the throttlebody heaters for cooler climates). The timing and demand for vacuum isn't constant so the electronic control of the throttles becomes necessary and complicates the engine control systems.

This is especially important for screw superchargers because in a typical installation the throttle body is mounted as a restriction in the intake path of the supercharger so that vacuum can be formed. due to the nature of positive displacement pumps(piston engines also fall here) you get vacuum on one side and pressure on the other and since a supercharger is timed to the engine to produce boost(additional intake capacity beyond what the engine normally sees)if you were to not have throttlebodies causing a restriction on a supercharged vehicle there wouldn't be enough vacuum to run said accessories not to mention that if the vehicle didn't have variable valving it would want to run at full throttle all the time.

So basically no throttlebodies = no power brakes

no TB's + supercharger = constant boost condition (still throttle-able with VVEL but you encounter boost problems)

The problem comes when you want to use the stock ETB's in front of a positive displacement supercharger because the ecu in the 370 will leave the trottlebodies open unless it senses a low vacuum condition in the power accessories which is essentially like not having them at all.

Possible ways around this:
1. if applicable trick the system by removing all vacuum reservoirs to force the throttlebodys to stay closed but you don't know if the ecu prioritizes safety and will then never open the throttles. Either way you effectively ignore the VVEL.

2. Hope everything goes well and the ecu throttles the engine with the valves and closes the throttlebodies to create the necessary vacuum and install a centrifugal instead of a twinscrew or roots to allow the manifold pressure at low demand to backflow through the supercharger and while suffering efficency loss your manifold won't blow open from continuously building pressure. This is the second easiest but most half azzed way. also this probably what stillen will do to the dismay of us twinscrew guys.

2a. What happens if you don't use a supercharger that allows back flow once its peak pressure(say 30) is reached is that you start the car and throttlebodies are closed everything is happy because all the twinscrew is pumping is vacuum created by the throttlebodies to less vacuum behind it. Then the vacuum reservoir is filled and the engine decides it doesn't need anymore vacuum so it opens the throttlebodies. the supercharger now has 14.7 psi of atmospheric pressure in front of it and begins compressing that air into the manifold against the restriction created by the valves. In the industrial world we use twin screws as 100psi+ air compressors and if you give it air it'll squeeze it to the other side until something blows up. A bypass valve could solve this but unfortunately they are controlled by the vacuum created behind the throttle bodies.(if the manifold doesn't blow up the supercharger will hit it's maximum psi and not wan't to spin anymore because it won't be able to shove the air anywhere and you will have belt problems to say the least)

3. slap a twinscrew on, leave the ecu alone, install a LARGE bypass valve to cure 2a, only since the throttlebodies are useless you would need to reference the cylinder vacuum behind the valves. Meaning finding a way to get air into the combustion chamber to read the level of vacuum present, with a check valve to prevent the actual combustion gasses from from flowing through, metered against the pressure immediately in front of the valves. You would most likely need to to install a needle valve on both sides of the bypass valve actuator to adjust the pressure differential required for valve activation and a plenum on the combustion chamber side to smooth the vacuum pulses created by the closing of the check valve during compression, power, and exhaust strokes. This is probably the hardest yet most mechanical way

4. Install the supercharger like normal and get someone to make a program that lets you crontrol the settings on the ETB's like super Uprev or something to allow you to limit the amount of air available to the supercharger, and make everything work flawlessly. Assuming availability of said program this would be the easiest and best way to install a twin screw.

5. TOP SECRET this is my way of installing a twin screw while not touching the throttlebodies and i'm keeping it on my bar napkin for now;).

There are other ways and i'll admit that this is mostly half-bakery as no one has tried this before but i'm sick of typing. I'm not very good at explaining things usually but if you have a question about something i will explain or reword it. I know a lot of you don't car either so if you don't read it thats fine too.

Edit: Thought i would add that if you use a centrifugal pump like the GTM you don't have to care as they don't produce boost at low rpms and if they did the blow off valve would mitigate it, same thing for turbo's, the roots supercharger is the only non centrifugal one i see as even having a chance of an easy install so the Eaton TVS guys can rest easier. Really the twinscrew is going to be the hardest.

Oh where to start...

The idea of turning a pulley around - say what? Pulley's are almost always interchangable - some harder than others if they are pressed on. So the solution is already there - you swap pulleys. Your idea would never pass a CARB approval process.

CARB and the EPA don't exist to make aftermarket companies thrive. Now if you think really hard about it, the aftermarket capitalizes on CARB and EPA regulations. Without CARB and EPA, we'd all be running stock 600hp leaded gas fuel cars. These regulations create a big market of approved and unapproved performance parts.

Lastly, still don't see how any of your freedoms are being denied? You can fab up your own kit, buy a knock off kit from China, buy a California produced non-CARB kit, or troll in a thread where the company is going to create a CARB legal kit. Your choices are still endless despite the peoples republic of Kalifornia..

Maybe a fun duck ride at the Dells would cheer you up - unless the water is frozen already..

He has a long history of anti-California posts. You would think he doesn't live in a Liberal state (he does) with all his whining..

1. My political preferance is none of your buisness although you probably have it wrong.

2. I'm gonna take the high road here, I censored my post you wanna continue this pm me we can start a thread in the lounge. Don't go telling people i have a long history anti-california posts it's pretty much the 10 or so in that one other thread that i can't even remember the name of that was pretty much a joke to me that i kept up pretty much just to p*ss you off and boy did it work.

I'll sum up my stillen supercharger related comments about california in one objective statement: Boy it sure does suck that those of us who don't live in California have to wait a couple extra months, and pay few extra hundred dollars a kit in order to cover the time and expense of stillen having to get carb approval for the kit.

:wtf2:

[QUOTE=1slow370;295074]
I wasn't going to start a cali fight here but could you look a person in the eye and honestly say that C.A.R.B regulations are good for the automotive aftermarket and that you in no way didn't wish that you didn't have to find someway around the LAW in order to customize your vehicle the way you want? When the law keeps you from doing something you want to do that doesn't directly endanger others(Co2 isn't going to jump out and knife a baby especially when the airlines and power plants produce an amount that makes the performance car market simple a political buffalo) I'm sorry but I and the rest of America call that ghey and an impingement of my FREEDOMS. :tiphat:
/QUOTE]

People said the same thing when smog stuff came on the market. However, go to a big city in the US and compare the air to a big city in China. Yeah, you're right - this looks like a pretty sweet way to live:

http://employees.oneonta.edu/allenth...TracyAllen.JPG

I, for one, am glad we can actually see the sun here. We work around the smog stuff and lose a few horsepower, but cars are still faster today than they ever have been.

And you people on the freedom high horse have obviously never heard of the Tragedy of the Commons (Tragedy of the commons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), which shows how everyone will exploit personal benefit to the detriment of all (including, in the end, themselves). The *only* solution to the tragedy of the commons is some form of group regulation. Personally, I don't like governments, but they have their place (like, say, fire departments). And one of those places is governance of the commons. Since your decision to dump crap into the air, rivers, and oceans affects me, I want us all to agree on a standard we want our air, rivers, and oceans to live up to, and implement appropriate regulations. In a highly populated state, those regulations will need to be more restrictive than a place with lower population density.

I know my opinion is unpopular with childish blowhards like Beck and Limbaugh, who want you to think that all regulations are scary and that evil taxes are bad (unless they want to steal our money to fight pointless wars) - but regulations and taxes are how we have air that is breathable, clean water to drink, and yes, roads to drive on (damned commie interstate highway system, stealing money from people who don't even drive!).

That same regurgitated Ayn Randian BS will tell you that everyone else is out to get you, forgetting all the good you get from public commons. Your ability to make a good living: that comes from regulation. The fact that if your house catches on fire, someone will come to put it out: regulation. The fact that you are defended and allowed to spout absurdity on a message board: that comes from regulation too. Laws can be freedom-creating as well as freedom-impinging, and we need to stand up as Americans and say that a better world is good for all of us, and that it doesn't mean communism.

So I'm sorry that California laws have hampered your ability to get pretty toys - I don't see them hampering that ability by much. And since you're using Ghey as a derogative, I'll let you in on a little secret: if you want to support freedom, then why not support other people's right to marry whomever the h-ll they want without draconian Christian mythology about Sodom and Gomorrah determining who can bugger who and in what orifice.

I guess I'm a hippie commie because I don't want to live in a wasteland where people screw each other over at every turn to get some two-bit trinket.

Fortunately, you're FREE to start a performance company in your own state to avoid that situation. You are also FREE not to buy a California supercharger kit.

If you don't want to take advantage of those freedoms, then don't whine about the money or time we're costing you.

to steer away from all the b*tching and moaning, how long did it take Stillen to develop a SC for the 350Z once it was released?

Please get back on topic, and stop hijacking my thread, thanks

I thought it was. I was just wondering since I figured stillen probably has had this project in dev since the Z was released. I just wondered the time frame diff between the 350 and 370.

Don't think he was speaking at you Tardcore. To stay on topic Stillen posted on their blog here that the open house was postponed until May partly due to the 370Z supercharger not being ready. It will instead happen in May and they hope to unveil the system then.

Ya, I was not talking about you tardcore, sry if you thought I was. I had a feeling this this wasn't being unveiled intill around April :( oh well, I hope stillen leaks some info from time to time leading up to May.

Wow, so I finally catch up with all of the posts that I want to read, get to this point on the post and I'm hearing April and May :(... I kept thinking I would get to the end of November on the posts and tah-dah... how disappointing.

Hey Guys,

Couple quick things. Really the only thing that drastically changes between the CARB and non-CARB legality is that we have to run a few extra tests during our tuning time. Also, the maximum amount of boost that we can take the kit to and still get through CARB testing is below the safety limit for the stock motor. So even if we did want to put on a smaller pulley and crank out more power, we're starting to get into unsafe levels of boost anyways. If you wanted to build yourself an engine and go from there, having a custom cut pulley really should be no extra expense. Also, we are hoping to include a very nice surprise that will make those of you East coasters who don't need to worry about CARB happy.

Like I said, we wanted to have this kit out a month or two ago but unfortunately due to some other projects including SEMA show, the Targa Newfoundland Rally in the GT R and the introduction of the carbon ceramic brakes for the GT R, we had some delays.

Please keep in mind that this engine is unlike anything else on the market. Working with the dual throttle bodies and limited space (less space on the Z's and G's than on the 350's and G35's, the engineering is having to get pretty tricky. It's all coming along very well and we're optimistic that we'll have a release party soon! LOL.

Thank you very much for your patience and support! I promise you, you will not be disappointed when we release this. Would you rather us hurry up and rush out a crap product or make sure that everything is perfect before release?

Seems to be the thing I hear the most.

Good to hear the progress!



DAN

My question will continue to be, will the installation of this kit be exclusive to 6MT owners?

I don't want my 7AT to blow itself up...at least, not before someone comes out with upgrades for it... ;)

Until someone actually blows up a 7AT it may be hard to know what it can or can not handle.

This is pretty much the true statement...

Will the kit bolt up to the 7AT? Yes, we will design the kit to work with both automatic and manual vehicle's. However, as far as reliability we won't know until we try it.

I don't have any concerns at this time though. The transmissions on the 350's and G's held up well to the power of the supercharger's. It wasn't until you started getting over the 400+ RWHP number that we started seeing issues with the auto trans.

Great to hear, Kyle. Thanks for the update!

I take that to mean you won't be at 400 RWHP. *sigh*

Thanks for the updates though!

LOL.. I knew someone would read into it that way..

No power estimates have been released from R&D, even to us marketing folks.. so no relevant information is being posted here to make any considerations..

:)

:icon17: You know we'll read into every word you post :tup:

400 at the wheels is around 472 at the crank (assuming 18% drivetrain loss). Compared to 332 stock, that's a 42% gain.

That's phenom-om-nom-nominal!

I could live with that....

^pfft they know if it doesnt hit 400 its not gonna sell ;)