Twin Turbo vs. Single Turbo V6: A Dissertation

blackonorange · 01-17-2012, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by car8oy281

someone had mentioned s and r and there 5xx whp at 9 psi. there type of Dyno reads pretty high. a stock ctsv SC on that type of Dyno makes right at 525 whp. on our Dyno the same vehicle only makes right at 415 to 418 whp

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Ye I agree Dynos can be skewed

Kingbaby · 01-17-2012, 06:16 PM

Interesting?

roplusbee · 01-17-2012, 08:20 PM

To Ron and O&G:

I want to be there to witness, lol. Drag strip or closed circuit? If it is the latter, I want in as well!

To all interested:

( Click to show/hide )

I think 98intrigue pushed the single turbo thing with his build and trial/tribulations. There are others out there that did well and props to them. As far as what works "best" on a platform? That one can be debated for quite some time. I think Mike and a few others hit it on the head earlier on in the discussion.

For me.....this is my first V configuration engine and to me, I would only run twins to reduce the interesting things that a single brings to that setup. Every other turbo'd car I have owned or worked on was an "I" configuration and was better suited for larger single turbo setups. Two of my colleagues had I6s and I had an I4.

One had RHD MKIII Supra (1.5JZ-GTE with Blitz TT upgrade kit) and installed a equal length tubular manifold and some random T4 Garrett. It sucked. We then sourced a cast iron single manifold and we were chasing him as a result. The second guy had a R33 GTS-T (with RB26DETT swap). Lets just say we spent most of the time working on his car. Eventually, we rebuilt his motor and went with a T04 Garrett as well. For some reason, he continually had problems with boost/vac. He got it straight right before he left, but I am not sure if he sold it or took it to his next assignment. Lastly, I had a S13 200SX Fastback (CA18DET that needed a ton of maintenance and TLC). I made the mistake of not managing my goals/expectations and built the motor twice. Once to stock goodness and again so that I could clear the 300HP limitation without blowing up. I wasted money on tubular manifolds (2 to be exact), rebuilt T25/T28 turbos (1 stock rebuild and 2 FP branded). I ended up with the good ole stock cast iron manifold, ported stock intake manifold, and a GT2871r with upgraded turbine/compressor wheel(s). I had heat shields out the yin/yang in my engine bay until I decided to go back to the stock manifolds. We wrapped all of my exhaust piping )down to the cat-delete the last go around and replaced the stock heat shields.

The end result? From a dig, the R33 would jump out and get walked down by the other 2. From a roll, the MKIII was a beast. The 2 I6s would jump ahead, but I would walk them down by 100mph (which was too late). Maybe if I started in a lower gear to keep my boost up, I would have done better.....Oh well!

NYBladeZ · 01-17-2012, 08:50 PM

Now that's how you settle it, #s are nice but applying it safely at the track is what really matters!

blackonorange · 01-17-2012, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYBladeZ

Now that's how you settle it, #s are nice but applying it safely at the track is what really matters!

True that

gbrettin · 01-18-2012, 11:59 AM

I'd be interested in more comparisons between STS and the twin setup.

The major thing I've noticed is that the STS setup looks easy to get running on the car (very appealing). The finished product of GTM looks a lot better imho.

Awesome write up Mike.

blackonorange · 01-18-2012, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbrettin

I'd be interested in more comparisons between STS and the twin setup.

The major thing I've noticed is that the STS setup looks easy to get running on the car (very appealing). The finished product of GTM looks a lot better imho.

Awesome write up Mike.

My STs setup will be here on Friday I will put together a good review for every one with lots of pics as well

erkthejerk73 · 01-18-2012, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackonorange

My STs setup will be here on Friday I will put together a good review for every one with lots of pics as well

you installing or a shop doing it?

gbrettin · 01-18-2012, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackonorange

My STs setup will be here on Friday I will put together a good review for every one with lots of pics as well

Nice! I'm very interested.

tower74 · 01-18-2012, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackonorange

My STs setup will be here on Friday I will put together a good review for every one with lots of pics as well

Sleepless nights ahead of you...trust me

. The first pull you do will make you want more

blackonorange · 01-18-2012, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tower74

Sleepless nights ahead of you...trust me

. The first pull you do will make you want more

I'm hoping to get 500 whp with the headers on 10 psi

blackonorange · 01-18-2012, 12:21 PM

Shop cause I'm doin headers as well , and I don't wanna do that lol

blackonorange · 01-18-2012, 06:31 PM

Shop quoted me at 2 g with install and tune me driving away the car they told me that installing headers takes almost as long as the STS kit

car8oy281 · 01-18-2012, 10:31 PM

twin 2860rs are only good up to 550 at most whp. anything over that the intake air temp gets pretty high and pushes them way out of there efficiency. comparing two 2860rs to a single 4094r is absolutely ridiculous. a single 4094 will.make more power efficiently and with a lower iats then 2860s any day. yea you will sacrifice a bit on torque side but the top end side of things is pretty retarded. on 16 psi of boost on a 4094r on a rev up de with cosworth cams and port work, we full spooled a 4094r with a 1.06 hotside at 4100rpm. and was on stock headers and stock intake manifold. cam timing was mild in the midrange. spool up timing was at 9 degrees and it was on pump gas.

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Seb@SZ · 01-19-2012, 12:24 PM

We've made easily over 630+whp on the 2860RS' (VG30DETT). The highest around 670 whp. This of course is done on race fuel. At a mere 12 psi on a VQ37 they can make 550+whp (with the right parts). On setups\turbos that are inefficient you'll see the boost go up but the power gains are minimal and start to drop off drastically, this is a good sign the turbo is pumping heat. Contributing factors are not only the turbo but the supporting modifications for example the piping diameter of the inlet, outlet, and exhaust piping as well as the VE of the engine.

01-17-2012, 08:20 PM	#3 (permalink)
roplusbee A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Killeen, TX Posts: 2,360 Drives: 2007 350Z NISMO Rep Power: 23	To Ron and O&G: I want to be there to witness, lol. Drag strip or closed circuit? If it is the latter, I want in as well! To all interested: ( Click to show/hide ) I think 98intrigue pushed the single turbo thing with his build and trial/tribulations. There are others out there that did well and props to them. As far as what works "best" on a platform? That one can be debated for quite some time. I think Mike and a few others hit it on the head earlier on in the discussion. For me.....this is my first V configuration engine and to me, I would only run twins to reduce the interesting things that a single brings to that setup. Every other turbo'd car I have owned or worked on was an "I" configuration and was better suited for larger single turbo setups. Two of my colleagues had I6s and I had an I4. One had RHD MKIII Supra (1.5JZ-GTE with Blitz TT upgrade kit) and installed a equal length tubular manifold and some random T4 Garrett. It sucked. We then sourced a cast iron single manifold and we were chasing him as a result. The second guy had a R33 GTS-T (with RB26DETT swap). Lets just say we spent most of the time working on his car. Eventually, we rebuilt his motor and went with a T04 Garrett as well. For some reason, he continually had problems with boost/vac. He got it straight right before he left, but I am not sure if he sold it or took it to his next assignment. Lastly, I had a S13 200SX Fastback (CA18DET that needed a ton of maintenance and TLC). I made the mistake of not managing my goals/expectations and built the motor twice. Once to stock goodness and again so that I could clear the 300HP limitation without blowing up. I wasted money on tubular manifolds (2 to be exact), rebuilt T25/T28 turbos (1 stock rebuild and 2 FP branded). I ended up with the good ole stock cast iron manifold, ported stock intake manifold, and a GT2871r with upgraded turbine/compressor wheel(s). I had heat shields out the yin/yang in my engine bay until I decided to go back to the stock manifolds. We wrapped all of my exhaust piping )down to the cat-delete the last go around and replaced the stock heat shields. The end result? From a dig, the R33 would jump out and get walked down by the other 2. From a roll, the MKIII was a beast. The 2 I6s would jump ahead, but I would walk them down by 100mph (which was too late). Maybe if I started in a lower gear to keep my boost up, I would have done better.....Oh well! __________________ 2007 350Z NISMO #0618: Zerolift \| UPREV \| F.I. \| Greddy \| Competition Clutch \| Injector Dynamics \| Aeromotive \| Pioneer \| JL

01-17-2012, 08:50 PM	#4 (permalink)
NYBladeZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New York Posts: 2,158 Drives: Lotus Exige S Rep Power: 21	Now that's how you settle it, #s are nice but applying it safely at the track is what really matters! __________________ 2009 Carbon Fiber/Red 370z aka Trish: Sports Package, Meisterschaft full catback, Fast Intentions Longtube Headers, Injen Long Tube Intakes, UpRev Tune: Sold 2008 Lotus Exige S Club Racer aka Bella, always leaves me smiling

01-19-2012, 12:24 PM	#15 (permalink)
Seb@SZ Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Chatsworth Posts: 277 Drives: Zs Rep Power: 25	We've made easily over 630+whp on the 2860RS' (VG30DETT). The highest around 670 whp. This of course is done on race fuel. At a mere 12 psi on a VQ37 they can make 550+whp (with the right parts). On setups\turbos that are inefficient you'll see the boost go up but the power gains are minimal and start to drop off drastically, this is a good sign the turbo is pumping heat. Contributing factors are not only the turbo but the supporting modifications for example the piping diameter of the inlet, outlet, and exhaust piping as well as the VE of the engine. __________________ Z Car Specialists www.specialtyz.com Blog http://specialtyz.com/blog/

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01-18-2012, 11:59 AM	#6 (permalink)
gbrettin A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Portage, MI Posts: 2,301 Drives: Tricycle Rep Power: 589151	I'd be interested in more comparisons between STS and the twin setup. The major thing I've noticed is that the STS setup looks easy to get running on the car (very appealing). The finished product of GTM looks a lot better imho. Awesome write up Mike.

01-18-2012, 12:21 PM	#12 (permalink)
blackonorange A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 1,078 Drives: 09 370z Rep Power: 17	Shop cause I'm doin headers as well , and I don't wanna do that lol

01-18-2012, 06:31 PM	#13 (permalink)
blackonorange A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 1,078 Drives: 09 370z Rep Power: 17	Shop quoted me at 2 g with install and tune me driving away the car they told me that installing headers takes almost as long as the STS kit

01-18-2012, 10:31 PM	#14 (permalink)
car8oy281 Base Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 37 Drives: 2005 nissan 350Z Rep Power: 15	twin 2860rs are only good up to 550 at most whp. anything over that the intake air temp gets pretty high and pushes them way out of there efficiency. comparing two 2860rs to a single 4094r is absolutely ridiculous. a single 4094 will.make more power efficiently and with a lower iats then 2860s any day. yea you will sacrifice a bit on torque side but the top end side of things is pretty retarded. on 16 psi of boost on a 4094r on a rev up de with cosworth cams and port work, we full spooled a 4094r with a 1.06 hotside at 4100rpm. and was on stock headers and stock intake manifold. cam timing was mild in the midrange. spool up timing was at 9 degrees and it was on pump gas. Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk