GTM STG 2 SC, when will it be available?

G37sHKS · 01-12-2011, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyboy

So to comment on my other thread,

GTM SC Stg 2 + VVEL tuner = C6 Z06 Killer,,.,,,,.,,,., MAYBE!!

If so,

Where do I sign UP?

A stock C6 Z06 then yes.. but bolts on C6 Z06 im sorry but we dont have a chance

1slow370 · 01-13-2011, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@GTM

From a purely academic perspective, I would be inclined to agree with you. However, it has been our experience that Vortech is very generous with their power ratings as it is. Not to mention that their blowers aren't designed to spin at very high rpms. So while the compressor by itself may be able to flow high cfm, the rest of the rotating assembly simply can't handle the necessary rpms and would blow itself apart long before you reach the limits of what the compressor can do. It's a lot like some of the frankenstein turbos you see out there with huge compressors and small, restrictive, exhaust housings. Sure, the compressor may be able to flow 500hp worth of air, but the exhaust housing restricts things too much to ever achieve what the compressor could theoretically deliver.

In terms of needing a motor build, someone else here already mentioned the clinching factor, and that is torque. Given that horsepower is a function of torque and rpm and superchargers make their peak torque near redline, the overall torque they produce to achieve a given horsepower level is not necessarily high enough to require a built motor. Another thing to point out is the G37 TT we built making ~500whp daily with a stock motor and still running strong.

Well i have a few questions about that one as well if 500whp daily is the current safe build mark then i don't see superchargers going much further because you take the 430 available from a stage one kit and tack on the 50-70hp lost in driving said supercharger and the motor itself is actually seeing the load of a 480-500hp turbo motor less about 10-20% for the increased pumping losses and the heat wear on the exhaust side of the head. from what i've witnessed generally you can't push the internals to get the same whp from a supercharger that could from a turbo charger. And it isn't all about torque i would say it is all about cylinder pressures when you're talking about an 11:1 CP ratio. combustion heat and pressure, causing detonation are going to kill it long before the regular torque output of the setup will (not true with the de motors as they had bitch-rods). usually when judging between the two i like to go off system psi and air charge temp, so if the "safe" power level of TT setup is at 8 psi, and the air charge temps remain the same(intercooler and compressor efficiencies obviously), then i wouldn't try to push a supercharger setup much more than 10-20% over that so like 9-10 without more than one guy doing it first. now on the hr motors being able to run more psi safely with tuned valve timing to reduce the overlap, the same levels of power there should carry over between the engines do to the similarity of the build, less the increase in pressures for the half point of compression. Really there are quite a few unknowns on pushing a vhr supercharged as of yet. on another angle though the stage 2 could be worth the price if there is enough of a ceiling above the stage 1 blower and the kit price is close between the two. if an hr can run 14psi safely then it is a good bet that we should be able to get close to 12 with our compression maybe more because our heads have a smaller hotspot around the spark plug. then it is just a matter of making that 50-80 hp cost effective to the consumer in the upgrade price. on the same token the vvel controller would have to cost at least as much as the stage 2 upgrade or people will just buy the vvel controller and see the same gains for less jeopardizing stage 2 sales

It might be better to sell the -91 compressor as a stage 3 upgrade once the vvel controller is completed in that case, and sell the stage one plus vvel as the stage2.

Staples · 01-14-2011, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

Well i have a few questions about that one as well if 500whp daily is the current safe build mark then i don't see superchargers going much further because you take the 430 available from a stage one kit and tack on the 50-70hp lost in driving said supercharger and the motor itself is actually seeing the load of a 480-500hp turbo motor less about 10-20% for the increased pumping losses and the heat wear on the exhaust side of the head. from what i've witnessed generally you can't push the internals to get the same whp from a supercharger that could from a turbo charger. And it isn't all about torque i would say it is all about cylinder pressures when you're talking about an 11:1 CP ratio. combustion heat and pressure, causing detonation are going to kill it long before the regular torque output of the setup will (not true with the de motors as they had bitch-rods). usually when judging between the two i like to go off system psi and air charge temp, so if the "safe" power level of TT setup is at 8 psi, and the air charge temps remain the same(intercooler and compressor efficiencies obviously), then i wouldn't try to push a supercharger setup much more than 10-20% over that so like 9-10 without more than one guy doing it first. now on the hr motors being able to run more psi safely with tuned valve timing to reduce the overlap, the same levels of power there should carry over between the engines do to the similarity of the build, less the increase in pressures for the half point of compression. Really there are quite a few unknowns on pushing a vhr supercharged as of yet. on another angle though the stage 2 could be worth the price if there is enough of a ceiling above the stage 1 blower and the kit price is close between the two. if an hr can run 14psi safely then it is a good bet that we should be able to get close to 12 with our compression maybe more because our heads have a smaller hotspot around the spark plug. then it is just a matter of making that 50-80 hp cost effective to the consumer in the upgrade price. on the same token the vvel controller would have to cost at least as much as the stage 2 upgrade or people will just buy the vvel controller and see the same gains for less jeopardizing stage 2 sales

It might be better to sell the -91 compressor as a stage 3 upgrade once the vvel controller is completed in that case, and sell the stage one plus vvel as the stage2.

Although a lot of what you're saying is true, nothing can be justified until the VVEL is cracked and the cost of the controller is listed. I have a feeling the controller is going to be a lot more expensive then what people think. I still say the extra $500 can still justify the cost of the stage 2 for a pure plug and play kit.

Of course my 2 cents

xsnapshot · 01-14-2011, 11:35 AM

Long time lurker here. I'm a few months away from my engineering degree and have been looking heavily into getting a lightly used 370z as a replacement for my modified WRX. (they are fun, but just not as sexy as a 370z IMO....)

I've been keeping tabs on this VVEL development for quite some time, and have done some research on the matter. Very interested in how this plays out, as I would love to have about 350 to the wheels NA in a Z. Not looking to go FI, at least for now.

I have an idea that has been floating around in my head for a while. Why not compare the VVEL settings for the NISMO and the normal Z? Since the NISMO has the better intake and exhaust, the engineers "SHOULD" have optimized the VVEL for the increased volumetric efficiency of the system. Perhaps this comparison would then tell us what needs to be changed in NA applications when even further increases in VE are realized.

Who knows if they actually did modify the VVEL system for the NISMO, but its worth a look IMO, now that GTM has access to it.

I'm also wondering if the VVEL system could modified to two different sections.
<3000 RPMish optimize the VVEL on NA applications for greatest fuel efficiency
>3000 RPM adjust for optimum power?

The opensource nature, and ease with which the Subaru community is able to modify the WRX/STI is incredible, and hopefully someday,some genius programmers/coders will accomplish for Nissan's what romraider has accomplished for subarus.

In for results, and discussion! (P.S. love the technical nature of this discussion!)

Staples · 01-14-2011, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xsnapshot

Long time lurker here. I'm a few months away from my engineering degree and have been looking heavily into getting a lightly used 370z as a replacement for my modified WRX. (they are fun, but just not as sexy as a 370z IMO....)

I've been keeping tabs on this VVEL development for quite some time, and have done some research on the matter. Very interested in how this plays out, as I would love to have about 350 to the wheels NA in a Z. Not looking to go FI, at least for now.

I have an idea that has been floating around in my head for a while. Why not compare the VVEL settings for the NISMO and the normal Z? Since the NISMO has the better intake and exhaust, the engineers "SHOULD" have optimized the VVEL for the increased volumetric efficiency of the system. Perhaps this comparison would then tell us what needs to be changed in NA applications when even further increases in VE are realized.

Who knows if they actually did modify the VVEL system for the NISMO, but its worth a look IMO, now that GTM has access to it.

I'm also wondering if the VVEL system could modified to two different sections.
<3000 RPMish optimize the VVEL on NA applications for greatest fuel efficiency
>3000 RPM adjust for optimum power?

The opensource nature, and ease with which the Subaru community is able to modify the WRX/STI is incredible, and hopefully someday,some genius programmers/coders will accomplish for Nissan's what romraider has accomplished for subarus.

In for results, and discussion! (P.S. love the technical nature of this discussion!)

The 370z Nismo doesn't have higher/lower intake or exhaust duration in the VVEL system. The only difference is the Nismo comes with an "aftermarket" exhaust that gives out the extra 20hp difference, as far as engine performance goes compared to the base 370z.

Now, if you're talking about the 350z Nismo that's a different story.

NewYorkJon34 · 01-14-2011, 11:00 PM

How was the 350z nismo different? ^ya the 370z nismo only has the Nismo exhaust + a slight ecu tweak for the extra 18hp.

Staples · 01-14-2011, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewYorkJon34

How was the 350z nismo different? ^ya the 370z nismo only has the Nismo exhaust + a slight ecu tweak for the extra 18hp.

It doesn't use the VVEL system.

1slow370 · 01-14-2011, 11:43 PM

holy now we off topic hard core different thread guys no the vvel is not changed for the nismo AFAIK, and I'm not gonna comment on the Gtm controller but i'm sure from them awesomeness is in store.

CrownR426 · 01-16-2011, 11:58 PM

Sweet when I win the win for life lottery I will definetly get the stage 2 on my Z.
[:

weiboy718 · 01-17-2011, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrownR426

Sweet when I win the win for life lottery I will definetly get the stage 2 on my Z.
[:

if you did win the lottery you will probably be driving something else.

CrownR426 · 01-17-2011, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weiboy718

if you did win the lottery you will probably be driving something else.

Na I think I'll still keep my 370Z.
First real sports car. ftw

Z eliminator · 01-17-2011, 07:22 AM

Sam , How is " our car coming along ".
The temp is -27 here today, with lots of snow. Im sure that it would make lots of RWHP on the dyno today.

Z

zzdudaka · 01-17-2011, 02:31 PM

Did I miss something? Is the GTM Stage 2 SC kit available?

NewYorkJon34 · 01-17-2011, 03:10 PM

Not for another 2-3 months, we are all waiting for reviews/results/dynos

zzdudaka · 01-20-2011, 08:43 PM

hmm on GTMs website there is an option to buy the stage 2 kit.
GTM Motorsports*::*FORCED INDUCTION*::*Supercharger Kits*::*GTM 370Z SUPERCHARGER KIT (TURN KEY)
GTM has it listed, maybe pre orders?

01-14-2011, 11:43 PM	#98 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7250	holy now we off topic hard core different thread guys no the vvel is not changed for the nismo AFAIK, and I'm not gonna comment on the Gtm controller but i'm sure from them awesomeness is in store. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

01-16-2011, 11:58 PM	#99 (permalink)
CrownR426 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: South Korea Posts: 4,676 Drives: Manual Rep Power: 847	Sweet when I win the win for life lottery I will definetly get the stage 2 on my Z. [: __________________ Love + Hardwork + Passion RIP SVTRacer

01-17-2011, 07:22 AM	#102 (permalink)
Z eliminator A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 1,659 Drives: 370 Z 7AT Sports Rep Power: 18	Sam , How is " our car coming along ". The temp is -27 here today, with lots of snow. Im sure that it would make lots of RWHP on the dyno today. Z __________________ 12.343 @114.14 . 4.5 stroker motor is now being built. Dec 1 2015.

01-14-2011, 11:35 AM	#94 (permalink)
xsnapshot Base Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Nebraska Posts: 21 Drives: 2004 WRX Rep Power: 14	Long time lurker here. I'm a few months away from my engineering degree and have been looking heavily into getting a lightly used 370z as a replacement for my modified WRX. (they are fun, but just not as sexy as a 370z IMO....) I've been keeping tabs on this VVEL development for quite some time, and have done some research on the matter. Very interested in how this plays out, as I would love to have about 350 to the wheels NA in a Z. Not looking to go FI, at least for now. I have an idea that has been floating around in my head for a while. Why not compare the VVEL settings for the NISMO and the normal Z? Since the NISMO has the better intake and exhaust, the engineers "SHOULD" have optimized the VVEL for the increased volumetric efficiency of the system. Perhaps this comparison would then tell us what needs to be changed in NA applications when even further increases in VE are realized. Who knows if they actually did modify the VVEL system for the NISMO, but its worth a look IMO, now that GTM has access to it. I'm also wondering if the VVEL system could modified to two different sections. <3000 RPMish optimize the VVEL on NA applications for greatest fuel efficiency >3000 RPM adjust for optimum power? The opensource nature, and ease with which the Subaru community is able to modify the WRX/STI is incredible, and hopefully someday,some genius programmers/coders will accomplish for Nissan's what romraider has accomplished for subarus. In for results, and discussion! (P.S. love the technical nature of this discussion!)

01-14-2011, 11:00 PM	#96 (permalink)
NewYorkJon34 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 3,041 Drives: 09 Fairlady Z Rep Power: 1064	How was the 350z nismo different? ^ya the 370z nismo only has the Nismo exhaust + a slight ecu tweak for the extra 18hp.

01-17-2011, 02:31 PM	#103 (permalink)
zzdudaka Base Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: South Carolina Age: 48 Posts: 130 Drives: 40th AnniverZary 370 Rep Power: 14	Did I miss something? Is the GTM Stage 2 SC kit available?

01-17-2011, 03:10 PM	#104 (permalink)
NewYorkJon34 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 3,041 Drives: 09 Fairlady Z Rep Power: 1064	Not for another 2-3 months, we are all waiting for reviews/results/dynos

01-20-2011, 08:43 PM	#105 (permalink)
zzdudaka Base Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: South Carolina Age: 48 Posts: 130 Drives: 40th AnniverZary 370 Rep Power: 14	hmm on GTMs website there is an option to buy the stage 2 kit. GTM Motorsports::FORCED INDUCTION::Supercharger Kits::GTM 370Z SUPERCHARGER KIT (TURN KEY) GTM has it listed, maybe pre orders?