Yours were better than a procharger any day!

In my opinion it's pretty quiet. It has that distinctive Vortech whistle to it but I can't hear any gear backlash or anything like that.

I don't know about that. Jay'z procharger wasn't rattle-y. Granted at 14psi it slung belts at me at 200+ mph. :tup:

What about at WOT? Its really hard to get a clear idea from the videos posted so far.

When I first heard about the SC, I was hoping it would sound like a cobra, but since its a different sc, wont sound anything like that. Would have loved the whine.

It was the gearlash that caused the other. So, without that, it should be good to go. Thanks for reporting back. Would still love to see a vid, though. So, whenever you can... :)

I haven't been able to spend much time in engineering for the past week or two. I have been buried in numerous other projects and haven't been able to break away to the dyno for awhile now.

Hopefully I can head back out and catch up with the guys next week. Nissan just asked us to build them a race car in less than 6 weeks so I've been trying to organize that build with all of the fabricator's, installer's, and painter's...yes...less than 6 weeks to build a competition ready race car!

Which car for the race car? a GTR?

RE: noise made by vortech V3 blower; On Youtube there are quite a few extended user videos of V3 blowers on G35's. In car, out of car, stock exhaust, aftermarket exhaust. It's a good starting point. I'm sure Stillen wants to get videos up on Youtube for promotional purposes just as badly as we want to see them.

RE: Parasitic drag of S/C and revving of engine; Revving of engine is based on (net torque) / (moment of inertia). For those that are not familiar with moment of interia, it is the rotational mass and how far from the rotational center the mass is placed. increasing the distance from center increases the torque needed to accelerate the object. In the case of a SC engine, the bulk of the rotational mass is the crank, pistons and rods. The moment of inertia, though is heavily influenced by the flyheel because of its large diameter. The moment of inertia of the supercharger is low because of it's small diameter, so the supercharger's biggest imapact is on net torque, which is (torque made by engine) - (parasitic loss). With all of this said, off idle the SC is not making boost so net torque is lower than stock and decrease the rate of revving. by 2,000 rpm or so the blower will make some boost and net torque will be higher than stock and boost will build to redline, so the increase in net torque over stock will increase to the redline as well. The end result: near stock revability from idle to about 2,500 rpm, then explosive increase in rate of rpms gained all the way to redline. The sensation of bog is not really "bog." That implies that when you open the throttle, net torque decreases. That does not happen. Torque will increase, but increases at low rpm will not be impressive. You think it's bogging because you're expecting 350 lb/ft of torque and 8psi of boost at 2,000 rpm like you get at 5,000 rpm.

Checking for YouTube videos now. Thanks for the idea. May hit up RedTube while i'm looking at tube sites. :)

The "bog" (maybe not the best usage of the word, but was trying to portray a mental image) is from when the throttle plate opens until the RPMs start to build. The difference in an N/A car vs the centrifugal SC car is noticable (at least it was on my Vortech'd G35) in this moment as the parasitic drag is at its pinnacle due to no boost.

Phi: Very informative reply and well explained! +1 for you sir. Its not so much that I was expecting 350lb/ft at 2kRPM. My question was more geared towards rev matching and rpm drop between gears. I wanted to know if the fact that there is an extra belt/sc added to the system would cause some parasitic drag, kinda like the A/C system does. I know its definitely not the same, but I guess with the boost being made either way it makes sense that it would shoot to redline explosively. I have lots to learn about superchargers and I'm loving this whole thing. Your answer covered it all and more. Also good call on the youtube, I will check those out. Thanks again.

:happydance:

yeah,
i was talking to my buddy who called...saying it is not as loud as the previous Vortech that were on g35/350z and wanted to go quieter this time around.

Wow at the results when searching that site for "blower." :nutswinger:

Found this on Motortrend:

515 Horsepower Stillen Supercharger Kit for 2010 Infiniti G37 and Nissan 370Z - Wide Open Throttle - Motor Trend Magazine

Iiiiiiinteereessting.

Nothing new there, but cool to see it on motortrend.

I don't mean to sound like I'm trying to poo on this thread, but the manifold, while an interesting approach - thorws me a bit since I'm more of a stock appearance kind of guy. The GTM kit appeals more in that respect...

Also, in terms of either the Stillen or GTM SC kits, with both of them using centrifigal superchargers, how would that compare vs the GTM TT kit, in terms of gains over the whole band and normal or "spirited" driving conditions - not just drag racing (as a dyno emulates)?

With twin turbos, you're going to get full boost and a huge rush of torque early on (which is fun), as opposed to the powerband of a centrifugal charger, where the power and boost comes on in a more linear fashion.

Hey Kyle, I'm alil confused with tuning the S/C. Is the supercharger going to come with a basic drivability tune, or do I need to have it tuned right away after installing it? I just don't wanna install it then have something go wrong because I don't have it dyno tuned right away.

oh come on ... i heard you guys have time to be out racing Camaros and Mustangs.... you can't be that busy :p

I would like to see all those parts laid down on a white background to see what's included with the kit, maybe they you can swap the air to water intercooler with a larger setrab core cooler and add electric fan to it and freeze the water inside it to get maximum cooling, just an idea though.

Edit: do you have thermal gasket between the stllien intake manifold and the lower runners, just to help in preventing heat transfer even if it was for a little bit.

Say what?



RCZ
This message is hidden because RCZ is on your ignore list.

sub ******* scribed!!!!! i was wondering why the other thread was already not showing on my user CP lol

The tune that the car comes with will be 99.9% dialed in however some people will want to get an extra one or two horsepower and maybe adjust their a/f a bit. However, the tune itself will be good from day one and won't need to be re-tuned later on.

We did take a picture of all the parts on a bit white sheet all laid out nicely just like we've done with our other supercharger systems in the past. Unfortunately, the picture really sucked. There was way too much white and everything looked blown out and we only had the parts for about 20 or 30 minutes before giving everything back to engineering so they could keep on working. We plan on retrying this photo as soon as we have all of the production pieces though.

There is a gasket on the bottom of the manifold.

It's a 370.

Awesome news. That means new parts and lots more R&D on this car. I was hoping it was a 370z! I'm really looking forward to the results of that, more than likely some of the stuff you have to come up for the race car will trickle down to us common folk.

Hey Kyle or Josh,

I saw you're likely going to have a 3yr/36,000mi engine warrany with the kit. Will the warranty be honored by any Stillen authorized installer? I'd be much more likely to do this if I can have my local Z shop install and perform warranty work.

I don't know if this first car will have much, if any, R&D benefit. I can't say too much right now but I will elaborate on this once the project is complete. I don't want to give any information before Nissan is able to. I do have plans for at least one more car though. The next car will have TREMENDOUS R&D value and will be pushed hard and far. I don't have confirmation that Nissan wants to do it yet as it won't be cheap, but it will be pretty insane!

We are trying very hard to carry over the same warranty that we had in the past. That warranty was pretty easy. As long as the supercharger kit was installed by an ASE certified mechanic, you're covered. Doesn't matter if it's your local high performance shop, dealership, or your uncle. As long as an ASE certified technician does the work, you're covered.

I hope it doesn't take away too much from the supercharger development....hopefully there aren't too many "delays" on the release of the other SC kits because Nissan needs the car so soon...

There wont be any delays because of this project. I stayed late last Wednesday and stripped the interior after hours so the shop didn't have to get distracted with it. Our head tech. is doing some of the simpler stuff today like exhaust, sway bars, oil coolers, and what not. Then next week it goes out to our fabrication shop for roll cage and racing seats. Then the following week it's off to paint for two weeks. We don't have enough time to complete this project for it to slow us down LOL!

To Stillen: I searched the thread but couldn't find it, are you using the V-3 SCi-Trim or the V-3 Si-Trim?

Edit: Reading through the thread I was kind of surprised with some people wanting "speed density" air measurement.
This is less accurate as your not measuring the actual air mass, but using a big lookup table and some sensor inputs to come up with an air mass estimate.

Additionally for the person asking about the MAF before the supercharger and the temperature difference. This doesn't affect the air mass, as the same air mass still flows passed the MAF, just at a lower temperature/higher density. If the MAF can deal with the higher flow, the measurement of the mass of the air is still correct. Where it does affect is that hot air can lead to knocking, however you can tune for this by not using too much ignition advancement. And the use of their air-to-water intercooler also reduces this as much as possible by cooling the air back down before it enters the cylinders.

**Crickets**

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCZ http://www.the370z.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
Which car for the race car? a GTR?


Well now that will come in handy as R&D for the rest of us!

Disagree about the R&D benefit! Just having it running is R&D in my book.

Your warranty is amazing. Great Job, Stillen, +1 rep :tiphat:

The point that you are missing is that even though you may be able to tune for the miscalculated intake air temps to quell knock, these are canned tunes at sea level and in different ambient temps. The ECU, in situations like this, need to be able to adjust for variables. Without knowing the exact temperature of the air from the MAF (measuring colder are due to 'draw through' that does not equate the hotter, compressed air going into the intake) the ECU cannot make the adjustments. This is why a "blow through' setup on a canned tune is a better option (though not close to perfect) than a canned tune on 'draw through'.

It's all well and good to have a custom tune on an OEM N/A car using 'draw through', but when it's a singular map shipped all over the world and in drastically different environments, not so much. This setup should come with a warning of recalibration is recommended. We've had this debate over on NAGTROC quite a bit when discussing "e-tunes." Even on an OEM F/I car that is calibrated for 'draw through', a one-size-fits-all approach to tuning is a bad idea.

Oh I definitely agree that it is much better to have engine custom tuned, I missed that that was the issue, I thought you were just worried about the MAF location.

But that aside what they probably do on a canned tune is run the engine hot and then make sure they tune for the save side (compensate for the real air temp, compared to the measured), you'll loose some power, but avoid ruining your engine. Additionally you've got a feedback loop from for instance the knock sensors which the ecu will use for self-learning and will use to compensate. Finally I don't know the algorithms that the Nissan ECU will use, but on top of the standard measures the car has VVEL, so it has some pretty powerful potential to compensate. Too bad this hasn't been cracked so they can make this custom as well, but I'm sure even the standard algorithms will assist here.

As Stillen is the one who actually does the canned tune, maybe they can comment on their approach. Maybe my above description is totally off, this would just be how I would do it.

I'd be interested to hear about their approach, too. Also wonder what kind of Stillen warranty implications there are if you do go out and have your car custom tuned.

My guess is that if you're going to spend around $8k on the supercharger kit, clutch/flywheel, and installation, you're not going to mind paying to have the car dyno tuned.

Nope...You're pretty much right on...

Don't get me wrong, just like a factory prepared car, if you can get a custom tune for your car then yes, you will be getting the most power possible. However, the tune that comes with our supercharger is no different than the tune that comes from Nissan. It is a pre set tune that will work perfectly fine for 99.9% of the owner's of these cars. If someone is building themselves a track car, then yes, they will want to pay a little extra to have a custom tune done specifically for their car. Each car/engine is a little different and every person adds their own exhaust, or exhaust and high flow cats, or long tube headers...the of possible variables goes on.

In order to achieve CARB legality we have to supply a locked tune. This is just like any O.E. car or aftermarket parts manufacturer. The tune must be pre-programmed and locked down. That tune is 100% safe and reliable for the car and will give great power and reliability. If someone wants to gain more power or custom tune for their other aftermarket parts combinations, they can do a custom tune on their own.

If the car is custom tuned then the warranty is 100% VOID. If someone wants to do a custom tuned supercharger setup then we highly recommend going with the tuner kit.

Seems like a pretty solid approach to me. :tup:

Could you also let me know which version you guys are using? (V-3 SCi-Trim or the V-3 Si-Trim)