A2A Supercharged Intake Options

TopgunZ · 01-10-2020, 07:21 AM

You all know I am a huge advocate of outside the box ingenuity. This thing will probably breath very well. It definitely will only be palatable to a certain group of enthusiast who dont care what they need to do to get the job done because the amount of material and support structure that was removed is pretty intense. I hope the hood latch support has enough material to not give way at high speeds and the hood doesnt end up over the windshield. Also, it is going to be tough to get someone to buy your car unless all of that is replaced before selling.

cgr406 · 01-10-2020, 11:19 AM

As for hyrdo-locking, maybe i'm off base, but i'm not sure that it is so easily achieved. I believe one would need to pretty much submerge the entire filter for it to happen. Otherwise, if the filter is just partially submerged, that means a section of it is still exposed to the atmosphere. And considering that water is so much heavier than air, the air will be sucked in much more easily than the water. Plus, if you are driving through a puddle, you would (should) be going slow and at a low engine RPM which means low blower speed which means not a ton of flow through the filter. The less flow, the less likely the heavy water will be picked up. With that said, I would be more comfortable w/ a filter that is a bit higher off the road. Just my 2c.

DrBacon · 01-10-2020, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgr406

As for hyrdo-locking, maybe i'm off base, but i'm not sure that it is so easily achieved. I believe one would need to pretty much submerge the entire filter for it to happen. Otherwise, if the filter is just partially submerged, that means a section of it is still exposed to the atmosphere. And considering that water is so much heavier than air, the air will be sucked in much more easily than the water. Plus, if you are driving through a puddle, you would (should) be going slow and at a low engine RPM which means low blower speed which means not a ton of flow through the filter. The less flow, the less likely the heavy water will be picked up. With that said, I would be more comfortable w/ a filter that is a bit higher off the road. Just my 2c.

I have definitely seen a few posts about people hydrolocking with injen intakes which is placed very similarly. However, we obviously don't know the actual circumstances behind it.

Senna-F1 · 01-10-2020, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

You all know I am a huge advocate of outside the box ingenuity. This thing will probably breath very well. It definitely will only be palatable to a certain group of enthusiast who dont care what they need to do to get the job done because the amount of material and support structure that was removed is pretty intense. I hope the hood latch support has enough material to not give way at high speeds and the hood doesnt end up over the windshield. Also, it is going to be tough to get someone to buy your car unless all of that is replaced before selling.

This car has been all kinds of hacked up. No one should ever need to do this now, but Ben was the 1st do go at it, so good for him. If you watch the other videos he's made, the bumper uses clips and snaps, none of which are stock. All the OE points are gone. The hood also does not use the stock latch. You can see hood pins in red in the video. That should at least prevent any hood snaps.

turtle64b · 01-12-2020, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

You all know I am a huge advocate of outside the box ingenuity. This thing will probably breath very well. It definitely will only be palatable to a certain group of enthusiast who dont care what they need to do to get the job done because the amount of material and support structure that was removed is pretty intense. I hope the hood latch support has enough material to not give way at high speeds and the hood doesnt end up over the windshield. Also, it is going to be tough to get someone to buy your car unless all of that is replaced before selling.

I agree with this piece, which is why we're trying to do something similar to what you are putting together for your kits, albeit a little more crude. The goal was to hack away as little as possible while freeing up as much breathing surface area as possible.

TopgunZ · 01-12-2020, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtle64b

I agree with this piece, which is why we're trying to do something similar to what you are putting together for your kits, albeit a little more crude. The goal was to hack away as little as possible while freeing up as much breathing surface area as possible.

I hear ya bud. There's only so much that is possible in an envelope of dimensions.

Senna-F1 · 01-11-2020, 06:15 AM

Another video from Ben showing the design, talking about scanning the car, and printer working.

https://youtu.be/DY5cE-lR9yw

Senna-F1 · 01-13-2020, 11:19 PM

Disclaimer: I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Just to add to the discussion, I made a video of the intake. I'm printing it now and may need to make some changes.

My philosophy with this design was to create a 4" diameter intake if possible and to keep the airspeed constant. By keeping the square area, and hence the volume of the intake consistent, I hoped to accomplish that. I dont think Ben's 3D printed intake took the same approach. His looked more like it was designed free-form, by hand.

This is a video of version 2. Version 1 was all done with solid modeling, whereas this new version uses surface modeling, and then thickens the part to create a solid model. Precise sketches are created for the actual shape and maintain the square area. Lofting is then used to smoothly transition from one shape to the next. In the end, I specifically transition to a 3.5" diameter round shape to match the SC inlet.

If you look at the lower right-hand corner of the video, you'll see the diameter and square area for each of the sketches that make up the intake.

https://youtu.be/8ElWbGIkLNc

redondoaveb · 01-13-2020, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senna-F1

Disclaimer: I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Just to add to the discussion, I made a video of the intake. I'm printing it now and may need to make some changes.

My philosophy with this design was to create a 4" diameter intake if possible and to keep the airspeed constant. By keeping the square area, and hence the volume of the intake consistent, I hoped to accomplish that. I dont think Ben's 3D printed intake took the same approach. His looked more like it was designed free-form, by hand.

This is a video of version 2. Version 1 was all done with solid modeling, whereas this new version uses surface modeling, and then thickens the part to create a solid model. Precise sketches are created for the actual shape and maintain the square area. Lofting is then used to smoothly transition from one shape to the next. In the end, I specifically transition to a 3.5" diameter round shape to match the SC inlet.

If you look at the lower right-hand corner of the video, you'll see the diameter and square area for each of the sketches that make up the intake.

https://youtu.be/8ElWbGIkLNc

That looks promising. Look forward to seeing the finished product.

Senna-F1 · 01-28-2020, 07:33 AM

I was just reporting the readings, and making a point that I wasn’t even selecting the highest one, since there was a lot of disbelief over my numbers. Having said that, Eugene says boost recorded by dynos are typically lower because they use a longer vacuum tube to reach their sensor. Vacuum loss over longer runs. I still hit high 14’s on the dyno I believe. I don’t understand why an unknown dyno with unknown sensors and vacuum tube length is somehow more believable or comparable than the equipment virtually everyone here owns. Probably a 4 bar OMNI-Power sensor, a couple feet of tube, and ECUTEK software. These are all constants, so why not rely on them instead of insisting on boost numbers from a dyno?

TopgunZ · 01-28-2020, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senna-F1

I was just reporting the readings, and making a point that I wasn’t even selecting the highest one, since there was a lot of disbelief over my numbers. Having said that, Eugene says boost recorded by dynos are typically lower because they use a longer vacuum tube to reach their sensor. Vacuum loss over longer runs. I still hit high 14’s on the dyno I believe. I don’t understand why an unknown dyno with unknown sensors and vacuum tube length is somehow more believable or comparable than the equipment virtually everyone here owns. Probably a 4 bar OMNI-Power sensor, a couple feet of tube, and ECUTEK software. These are all constants, so why not rely on them instead of insisting on boost numbers from a dyno?

I know reading boost numbers is nice. But where it all matters is how much its laying down on the dyno. Do you have those results?

Senna-F1 · 01-28-2020, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

I know reading boost numbers is nice. But where it all matters is how much its laying down on the dyno. Do you have those results?

½ of them. Right now I just have the E53 dyno. When I asked why just 53% Ethanol, they said to keep it safe for a long life. I don’t know... but I’m very happy with what I got.

With my intake and filter, 9 psi pulley, and On E53, I made 618 WHP and 452 WTQ @ 14.7 psi. I’m guessing that’s a boost record for a filtered 9 psi pulley setup. I don’t even see turbo guards making that kind of boost.

turtle64b · 01-28-2020, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senna-F1

½ of them. Right now I just have the E53 dyno. When I asked why just 53% Ethenol, they said to keep it safe for a long life. I don’t know... but I’m very happy with what I got.

With my intake and filter, 9 psi pulley, and On E53, I made 618 WHP and 452 WTQ @ 14.7 psi. I’m guessing that’s a boost record for a filtered 9 psi pulley setup. I don’t even see turbo guards making that kind of boost.

I hope to be in that area of power and pressure once I'm done with tuning. Likely mid-March after gallery gaskets get done, will I be able to hit the dyno.

Looks great!

cgr406 · 01-28-2020, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senna-F1

½ of them. Right now I just have the E53 dyno. When I asked why just 53% Ethenol, they said to keep it safe for a long life. I don’t know... but I’m very happy with what I got.

With my intake and filter, 9 psi pulley, and On E53, I made 618 WHP and 452 WTQ @ 14.7 psi. I’m guessing that’s a boost record for a filtered 9 psi pulley setup. I don’t even see turbo guards making that kind of boost.

Yes, that's awesome! Any thought as to what the pump gas numbers would be? Is it 93 octane in your area?

Senna-F1 · 01-28-2020, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgr406

Yes, that's awesome! Any thought as to what the pump gas numbers would be? Is it 93 octane in your area?

Thank you sir!

It is 93, and it should be in the 550+ WHP. Not sure on TQ. I’ll post it once I receive the plot.

01-10-2020, 07:21 AM	#1 (permalink)
TopgunZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 2,651 Drives: 06 350Z , 09 370Z MT Rep Power: 6835	You all know I am a huge advocate of outside the box ingenuity. This thing will probably breath very well. It definitely will only be palatable to a certain group of enthusiast who dont care what they need to do to get the job done because the amount of material and support structure that was removed is pretty intense. I hope the hood latch support has enough material to not give way at high speeds and the hood doesnt end up over the windshield. Also, it is going to be tough to get someone to buy your car unless all of that is replaced before selling. sx moneypit, redondoaveb and "Z"en like this. __________________ ROTREX SUPERCHARGER TUNER KITS - $6799/ CUSTOM STILLEN AIR TO AIR KITS -$2100/ 700+ WHP!! WWW.TOPGUNSPEEDWORKS.COM

01-10-2020, 11:19 AM	#2 (permalink)
cgr406 Base Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: pittsburgh Posts: 106 Drives: '14 Z Sport Tour 6M Rep Power: 3368	As for hyrdo-locking, maybe i'm off base, but i'm not sure that it is so easily achieved. I believe one would need to pretty much submerge the entire filter for it to happen. Otherwise, if the filter is just partially submerged, that means a section of it is still exposed to the atmosphere. And considering that water is so much heavier than air, the air will be sucked in much more easily than the water. Plus, if you are driving through a puddle, you would (should) be going slow and at a low engine RPM which means low blower speed which means not a ton of flow through the filter. The less flow, the less likely the heavy water will be picked up. With that said, I would be more comfortable w/ a filter that is a bit higher off the road. Just my 2c. __________________ TopGunZ Rotrex SC / CJM RFS / 1300 / Ecutek / Dynosty / F.I. TP & CBE / Z1 / Swift / SPL / Whiteline / Hotchkis / Michelin SP4

01-13-2020, 11:19 PM	#8 (permalink)
Senna-F1 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Cary, NC Age: 55 Posts: 425 Drives: 370SC,EliseSC,MR2T Rep Power: 51	Disclaimer: I have no idea what I'm talking about. Just to add to the discussion, I made a video of the intake. I'm printing it now and may need to make some changes. My philosophy with this design was to create a 4" diameter intake if possible and to keep the airspeed constant. By keeping the square area, and hence the volume of the intake consistent, I hoped to accomplish that. I dont think Ben's 3D printed intake took the same approach. His looked more like it was designed free-form, by hand. This is a video of version 2. Version 1 was all done with solid modeling, whereas this new version uses surface modeling, and then thickens the part to create a solid model. Precise sketches are created for the actual shape and maintain the square area. Lofting is then used to smoothly transition from one shape to the next. In the end, I specifically transition to a 3.5" diameter round shape to match the SC inlet. If you look at the lower right-hand corner of the video, you'll see the diameter and square area for each of the sketches that make up the intake. https://youtu.be/8ElWbGIkLNc cgr406, RAMOS, turtle64b and 3 others like this.

01-28-2020, 07:33 AM	#10 (permalink)
Senna-F1 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Cary, NC Age: 55 Posts: 425 Drives: 370SC,EliseSC,MR2T Rep Power: 51	I was just reporting the readings, and making a point that I wasn’t even selecting the highest one, since there was a lot of disbelief over my numbers. Having said that, Eugene says boost recorded by dynos are typically lower because they use a longer vacuum tube to reach their sensor. Vacuum loss over longer runs. I still hit high 14’s on the dyno I believe. I don’t understand why an unknown dyno with unknown sensors and vacuum tube length is somehow more believable or comparable than the equipment virtually everyone here owns. Probably a 4 bar OMNI-Power sensor, a couple feet of tube, and ECUTEK software. These are all constants, so why not rely on them instead of insisting on boost numbers from a dyno? Last edited by Senna-F1; 01-28-2020 at 07:37 AM.

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01-11-2020, 06:15 AM	#7 (permalink)
Senna-F1 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Cary, NC Age: 55 Posts: 425 Drives: 370SC,EliseSC,MR2T Rep Power: 51	Another video from Ben showing the design, talking about scanning the car, and printer working. https://youtu.be/DY5cE-lR9yw