Can’t argue that fact. You can buy a k series for $800 at your local junkyard. But you ain’t build no nitro all motor 4 cylinder for under 20k. Finding a good hatch shell will cost you 2-5k. 4 piston racing those motor builds cost just as much as building a VQ. Will these VQ or the Z platform be anything close to where civics probably not. Now you have soho getting closer to the 8’s and NA guys knocking on the door to 10’s it may bring some much needed attention to the platform.

Honda are great if that is your thing. I love rear wheel drive cars. Driven all breeds at the the track and in EV's. The reason Honda's are popular are because people have pushed the limits on the K series motor. To be fair a proper Honda track car ain't cheap either. Ben from Gears and Gasoline broke down the cost to build his track car. $25k ain't going to get you there.

Tracking is expensive. I bought a track prepped Miata track and street car. It still was expensive. The heads had to be done twice, rotors, brakes, tires and a proper 4 point roll bar. Things add up quickly!

The bottom line is we all need each other. The car community suffers because many want to hate on a platform or between platforms and show vs track. Then there is grip vs drift vs drag and so on. My rant is over.

Spooler, carry on my brother!!!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

I am doing my best. Will have to wait and see what next year brings.

Most GTR's do no use a stand alone ECU majority use Ecutek and cobb its been this way for years. GTR's are where they are because of demand has nothing to do with people wanting to spend money on a custom harness. The knew supra is running 8's

Vinny ten's tube chassis drag car ran mid 6's at over 200mph. There was another Z of his that ran into the 8's that trapped in the 170's.This is where the good news with Vinny stops. Over the years his name has gotten him attention he is not some great pioneer nor has he really done anything great for they platform. I personally know people that have worked with Vinny and customers that he has screwed besides myself.

I totally agree with this

Let's just say I have always had a goal in mind. I am not close to it yet. It will take several more years to get there if I don't burn out first. I keep my goals close that way I don't have to constantly hear folks say I can't do it. That will fire me up and I will try to go to fast. I need to be wise about it and inch my way up to it.

Have to learn to walk before you can fly. You're there.

Demand is people willing to spend the money. For example if soho came
Out with a stand alone package and it showed monumental advances in tuning but quoted 6-10k for a drag package. You think the VQ crowd would be jumping through loops to get it done or so say “it to expensive I can’t justify it” gtr crowd has money and money is what it going to take to go to the next level and stay relative. Looks at Cjm and his intake manifold, his oil pump gears and now the Dct. The demand was/or is there, but nobody willing to fork money to help the movement. Just sitting around waiting for shops like
Soho to spend the crazy money on the R&D.

Ecu tek is a very capable piggy back with custom mapping. But a lot of tuners aren’t using it for what it’s worth either.

Your concept of demand is totally off most people just aren't going to spend the money on a stand alone. Now I get it you have a passion for them using SOHO as and example would not create the demand you think it will. First off demand is dictated by the customer not shops like your example above. Shops invest money in cars because there is a demand in the aftermarket to modify a certain car/platform not the other way around. As someone pointed out to you before this is not the 90's where a stand alone is needed to go fast. GTR's Mustangs corvettes the new supra are cars that can run 8's on the factory computers. What do all these cars have in common? Customers that pay for parts to go fast this creates demand for multiple shops and manufacturers to make parts.

Now if SOHO came out with what you stated yes there would be people that would jump all over it. That however would not create the kind of buzz like some of the other platforms.

My concept of demand is for people who actually race to win, not weekend and holiday warriors. Shops demonstrate what can be done, if it’s successful, that brings in customers wanting the same thing. The demand is there and soho is taking full advantage of that. You can make 2000hp on a stock Ecu nowadays, just like you can make 1200hp on uprev why do Ecu tek. You’re not getting what I’m throwing down, it’s not about making power to switch to a stand-alone. Stock simply can’t do what a stand-alone can do when it comes to racing and keeping these motor running at peak efficiency. Again not talking about street cars wanting to do roll racing, and still want to drive it on hot summer days with ac and all the creature comforts. All the new cars you mentioned can probably run 7’s on a factory Ecu, it not like are running multiple piggybacks to truck the computer, Emilia proved when she went 9’s. Watch and consistent and fast these cars will be on stand alones. What all these cars have is you’re right customers willing to spend money, not squabbling over what intake and exhaust combo will net me 350whp for the cheapest price or who got the hook up. Those people are adults with money not kids spending life savings on a 10,000 turbo kit wanting to make 800whp on 750 injectors and no return system.

I am definitely not the guy who is going to spend $2k on Belak's but I am sure as **** glad there's that level of investment in our platform.

It’s not smart by any means. But some people’s passion for it is far greater then you and I. Just like we can laugh at people pouring 100k into a civic to run 7’s. Or 20-50k for an all motor 4 banger to make 800hp. Why spend that when you can buy and eBay turbo kit and a junkyard block with minimal effort to make the same power?

I see you really think the demand is there because of SOHO. There the only shop that has been willing to spend the money and R&D it takes to make this platform go fast that's awesome and there the best. Now I think started out around 2012ish , do you really think it takes 8 years go create demand for customers. I would be willing to bet they do what they do because they have a passion for these z cars. You don't see anyone else like AMS ETS Cicio performance T1 racing Boost logic etc doing anything with the Z34. There's a reason for that and that's because there enough customers that create the type of demand for these companies to invest in.

Now I'm not trying to argue with you that a stock ECU is better than a stand alone. I agree that a stock computer cant do what a true stand alone can do my only point was most people don't want to spend the cash on a stand alone ecu and that there are plenty of cars not using them. I even want to switch to one my self eventually hell I even held a Haltech ECU in my hand back at the P.R.I show in Orlando Florida in 2012 that was suppose to come out. The thing these days roll racing is more popular than drag racing that's just a fact people rather have there creature comforts than a all out race car.

Demand isn’t there because of soho, demand is there because you still see people taking th cars to the drag, roll
Racing, road racing, soho is Perpetuating the platform into new heights. , because those big shops with customer left the z34 when the gtr came around. Because the platform ia filled with kids. I’d leave to if I had the talent to draw customers in willing to drop 100k in a blink of an eye. Demand isn’t there because information is filled with clutter, you don’t need it. Most don’t even known that we even have a plug n play. 2012 haltech didn’t have a stand-alone that controlled the vvel. Or both Tb’s. Roll racing no near as popular as drag racing. People like doing because it doesn’t require as much skills or time to be good at it, doesn’t break parts as easy.

Here

Plus the VQ block sucks at holding big power extended abuse. Time will tell
If soho or the new mazworx design will hold. If the ej22 crowd figured it out I’m sure companies will do the same for the VQ.

All I would want a Standalone for is a Motorsports grade traction control. That is the greatest benefit and something that Ecutek can't do. No more ramping the boost in with tuning. I figured that out real quick at Pocono. There was a ton of traction there and I left a good bit of MPH on the table.

The other thing I want to bring up is a proper traction control is a safety benefit on high hp cars. 700-800whp car it is not necessary. 900whp and up it is a great benefit. 10k is cheap for a MOTEC M150 compared to totaling the car. Especially for a street/roll race car.

That's not true. MS3Pro is about 1,000. I'm also talking to Frank Motorvate about making a plug and play cable from the BCM to MS3. If there were a few more people voicing interest I'm sure he would have more of a fire under his a$$.

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Edit - I sent him this thread to show him monkeys flinging poo.

Soho is not the reason why demand isn't there. Now to say people are out drag racing and roll racing z there are only a handful that show up and race these cars at any track. Saying that the GTR killed the Z is not true that car came out in 2008 and the Z in 2009. The VQ killed the Z they have been lifting heads since 2003. This drove customers away from the VQ platform as well as companies. Did you own any VQ back in 2009 when this car came out
or any VQ. I can tell you this forum alone was way more active back then there were a lot more Knowledgeable people around back then and way more customers.

Now as far as Haltech goes when I saw it at PRI show it was suppose to be a full stand alone that's what I was told at the time and they game out with what you just showed above.

They Ecutek we have is different from what the GTR's have the traction control works way better on there cars. We only have Ecutek because of them and get handed the left over race rom crumbs lol.


I knew you would hook with what you have at Pocono next time I'm sure you will be ready

I had one shortly after. It’s a weak cast design. And the gtr did kill the VQ. It was far superior in all ways, transmission, block, engine, and Ecu.

The copper HG and hoops helps contains the combustion of the the head flexes and the cylinder move a little oreventing coolant from
Pushing out. It took many revisions to get this correct.

For example the factory Ecu allows Ecu tek to be able to have cylinder cut per cylinder vs z34 can’t do that either all or nothing

Not crazy important to have but nice to be able to control from a tuning standpoint. We can’t have that with the stock Ec, GTR’s can with a stock ecu.

Just like I mentioned above we are left with GTR left over crumb with our version of Ecutek.

Hence the reasoning why the stand-alone is a crucial part in staying relevant. Is it necessary no, it cost friendly no. But its a great tool to have if you want the most out of your build and intended to race the car seriously or have a really fun street car and alot of safety features implanted to keep the car from
Killing you.

You will probably start wanting to look into adding sensors to the suspension and data logging during your runs. That way you know exactly what it is doing all times and make little adjustments from there. Also adding a turbo speed sensor to
Monitor turbo speed to make sure you stay within grange of the compressor map.

It's Xonarotor, they don't need no silly compressor map. LMAO!!!!

I am not sure what the Motec M150 package can handle. Need to find addition spots for data logging. I do not know if any are available. They will need to be written into the firmware to make it happen. I didn't get that far. My chit keeps breaking stuff. :rofl2:

All turbos have an efficiency range they work, knowing that ensure you’re not spinning the turbos past what they are capable of. To each it’s own, more data you know the more knowledge you have of what everything is doing.

It was a joke dude. The sucky part about Xonarotor is they do not have any maps for their turbos. I hate that chit.

Dang that’s stinks. Like precision they don’t have any maps either

I can say this. I was out of compressor wheel at 25psi of boost. That is when my IAT's started to climb. I ran out of turbine at 29psi of boost. That is when I made 996whp at 28psi and at 29psi I made 1004whp. So, the question is do I go to a 58mm compressor wheel or a 60mm compressor wheel.

Big as possible. Little lag don’t hurt anything for what you want to do.

Then the question is, what will fit without having to build custom tubular exhaust manifolds. Custom stuff isn't cheap at all as you know.

That’s the question. You don’t have much room to work with. Either you stick with what you have and be happy, drive the car and enjoy it which is what I recommend doing. Or put it under surgery to get a proper pair of twins and be down for an extended period of time. You need seat more then anything, you need data. You’re car has been in the shop since the first build. I’d say drive it, race all next year and then decides if you want to make the journey to upgrading turbos for more power or invest in making what you have now faster which tuning other aspect of the car.

That is why the car is at home. So I can enjoy it some before the motor upgrades. It is not cheap doing turbo upgrades as the motor has to come out for that. As long as the funds are available, new turbo's will go on the car. Otherwise I will do my current exhaust housing upgrade that I already have in hands. .82AR to a 1.06AR. Increasing the compression ratio back to 11:1 will not require as much boost as before to get the same whp. I will gain whp no matter what happens. I could send the turbo's back to Xonarotor for a compressor wheel upgrade to a 58mm compressor wheel.

Bangs table lol Xona 65.64 130 pounds of air flow with a 58/64 compressor/ turbine will fits and will flow.

Sending them back in for an upgrade not a bad idea either.

If a little is good, more MUST be better, right? :rofl2: