Topgunz full supercharger kits!!

Senna-F1 · 11-11-2019, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBacon

Honestly I still have the same problem as you too. I can tell Sebastian almost seems a little frustrated, we've had to go down in timing from the base map to prevent ignition correction (usually it's the other way around, lol). He's brought up e85 a couple times now but unfortunately it's just not possible in my area, I would have to get barrels delivered, and I daily drive the car for the most part so it's just out of the question. The car goes on a dyno on Friday however I honestly don't expect it to make much power with the amount of timing it is running, I'd guess 450whp max. Sucks because this kit has so much potential just to be handicapped by bad availability of fuel.

So your tuner is frustrated, and my tuner is "yay! more boost". Hmmm. If its honest boost, and not just some bad restriction, or cam issue, then it should be a good thing. People normally have to buy a different pulley to get more boost, and the result is MORE power, not less. So I wonder why he's frustrated. Because hes pulling timing only after 10 psi to keep it from knocking? And pulling so much that he feels it negates the increase in boost and ultimately will make LESS power?

Has Seb suggested getting a knock sensing tool to figure out if you're getting REAL knock? The tools from Plex tuning, Tuner Nerd, etc ? Im considering it, because I think my car too was correcting timing more than what my tuner was expecting from my setup. An maybe my tune also has pulled timing compared to other tunes, Im not sure. Update us with the dyno!

DrBacon · 11-12-2019, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senna-F1

So your tuner is frustrated, and my tuner is "yay! more boost". Hmmm. If its honest boost, and not just some bad restriction, or cam issue, then it should be a good thing. People normally have to buy a different pulley to get more boost, and the result is MORE power, not less. So I wonder why he's frustrated. Because hes pulling timing only after 10 psi to keep it from knocking? And pulling so much that he feels it negates the increase in boost and ultimately will make LESS power?

Has Seb suggested getting a knock sensing tool to figure out if you're getting REAL knock? The tools from Plex tuning, Tuner Nerd, etc ? Im considering it, because I think my car too was correcting timing more than what my tuner was expecting from my setup. An maybe my tune also has pulled timing compared to other tunes, Im not sure. Update us with the dyno!

I definitely over exaggerated Seb being frustrated, it's more of a joke as to how much effort has gone into trying to get the timing to make sense. Really I'm not sure what's going on with the car yet. I've done close to 20 data logged WOT pulls now, AF/R is good, boost is good, just timing/knock is being seemingly strange. I've used an octane booster (boostane) at a pretty decently high concentration and it made no change with the ignition correction. At first it seemed like maybe the knock sensor was possibly picking up some false positives, but when tested with a low timing map the ignition correction almost entirely went away. Most of the ignition correction that happens is around 5k rpm, before full boost. The knock sensor seems to be the most happy around 9 to 10 degrees of timing.

The reason for the low dyno estimates is because I've actually already had it on a dyno so I know ROUGHLY what it will be making, but for various reasons I'm getting it re-done at a different shop this time. It was a half assed dyno day type of deal where they didn't actually log a complete pull, graph cut off at 6,800rpm.

BOLIO 671 · 11-12-2019, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBacon

Honestly I still have the same problem as you too. I can tell Sebastian almost seems a little frustrated, we've had to go down in timing from the base map to prevent ignition correction (usually it's the other way around, lol). He's brought up e85 a couple times now but unfortunately it's just not possible in my area, I would have to get barrels delivered, and I daily drive the car for the most part so it's just out of the question. The car goes on a dyno on Friday however I honestly don't expect it to make much power with the amount of timing it is running, I'd guess 450whp max. Sucks because this kit has so much potential just to be handicapped by bad availability of fuel.

I feel u on the availability for fuel man. In the same boat in our area. E-85 is definitely off the table here due to our extreme humidity. We also only have 91 octane as the highest fuel source at the ⛽️.... even worse news is our race shop that usually ships in race gas/higher octane fuels from VP Racing no longer brings in VP products due to their supplier no longer being a VP distributor....so now the best grade available to us is F&L 100 Octane. Haven’t used this fuel source yet as I’m still doing research on it. Some of the guys that I know who switched out their tunes from VP MS109 to the F&L 100 have seen a 10-15% power loss.

TopgunZ · 11-12-2019, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOLIO 671

I feel u on the availability for fuel man. In the same boat in our area. E-85 is definitely off the table here due to our extreme humidity. We also only have 91 octane as the highest fuel source at the ⛽️.... even worse news is our race shop that usually ships in race gas/higher octane fuels from VP Racing no longer brings in VP products due to their supplier no longer being a VP distributor....so now the best grade available to us is F&L 100 Octane. Haven’t used this fuel source yet as I’m still doing research on it. Some of the guys that I know who switched out their tunes from VP MS109 to the F&L 100 have seen a 10-15% power loss.

Is water/meth injection an option? One of my customers is making 560whp on that without a RFS.

cgr406 · 11-10-2019, 09:21 PM

Hmm. That makes a lot of sense. And I think u may be right in that it may not be good, as boost is, in a way of thinking, the opposite of flow. So if the exhaust cam timing is actually allowing less flow, that could equate to more boost. Just like an exhaust restriction.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

cgr406 · 11-10-2019, 09:25 PM

As for mine, I guess I'll look into doing a boost leak test.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

cgr406 · 12-03-2019, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgr406

As for mine, I guess I'll look into doing a boost leak test.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

After some feedback from Seb, I decided to take another look @ my most recent data log. I converted the manifold absolute pressure (bar) readings to PSI and charted them again. So it looks like (according to the MAP sensor) i've actually been making around 10 psi @ 7k RPM, although my boost gauge has been showing a peak of only about 7.7 psi. Yay. Much better to have a low-reading gauge than to actually be not making the desired boost / power.

Senna-F1 · 02-10-2020, 05:23 AM

I made a short video giving a small taste of what it's like driving with this kit. Probably best viewed on a computer due to the detail of the data.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz6SW9joFfQ

DrBacon · 11-15-2019, 05:35 PM

As suspected, the map sensor seems to read boost a little high, when running a vacuum line to the dyno it reads 10 to 11psi. Pretty happy with these numbers, right about what I expected with the crap fuel I have. I think I might try an ethanol blend later on, I don't like the idea of running straight ethanol considering how hard it is to get in my area, but that's another project for another time. I do still suspect something might not be entirely correct with my knock sensor considering there was no effect when I added boostane, so still need to look into that.

Senna-F1 · 11-15-2019, 07:08 PM

Thanks for posting info. Is it normal to have that big of a power difference in runs that close together time wise? I assume nothing changed.

DrBacon · 11-15-2019, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senna-F1

Thanks for posting info. Is it normal to have that big of a power difference in runs that close together time wise? I assume nothing changed.

Red was 4th gear, blue is 5th. Forgot to mention that, my bad.

MoulaZ · 02-03-2018, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redondoaveb

Nice graph.

You know there's an actual "Post Reply" button right? lol

Congrats on the finally bringing the kit to the market Aaron. I'm also just as impressed you managed to strike a deal with Stillen haha. Definitely see this option being popular.

redondoaveb · 02-03-2018, 12:49 PM

Nice graph.

My ethanol gauge was reading 72% on the 541 pull.

redondoaveb · 02-03-2018, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoulaZ

You know there's an actual "Post Reply" button right? lol

Congrats on the finally bringing the kit to the market Aaron. I'm also just as impressed you managed to strike a deal with Stillen haha. Definitely see this option being popular.

Better?

11-10-2019, 09:21 PM	#5 (permalink)
cgr406 Base Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: pittsburgh Posts: 106 Drives: '14 Z Sport Tour 6M Rep Power: 3367	Hmm. That makes a lot of sense. And I think u may be right in that it may not be good, as boost is, in a way of thinking, the opposite of flow. So if the exhaust cam timing is actually allowing less flow, that could equate to more boost. Just like an exhaust restriction. Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk __________________ TopGunZ Rotrex SC / CJM RFS / 1300 / Ecutek / Dynosty / F.I. TP & CBE / Z1 / Swift / SPL / Whiteline / Hotchkis / Michelin SP4

11-10-2019, 09:25 PM	#6 (permalink)
cgr406 Base Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: pittsburgh Posts: 106 Drives: '14 Z Sport Tour 6M Rep Power: 3367	As for mine, I guess I'll look into doing a boost leak test. Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk __________________ TopGunZ Rotrex SC / CJM RFS / 1300 / Ecutek / Dynosty / F.I. TP & CBE / Z1 / Swift / SPL / Whiteline / Hotchkis / Michelin SP4

02-10-2020, 05:23 AM	#8 (permalink)
Senna-F1 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Cary, NC Age: 54 Posts: 425 Drives: 370SC,EliseSC,MR2T Rep Power: 51	I made a short video giving a small taste of what it's like driving with this kit. Probably best viewed on a computer due to the detail of the data. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz6SW9joFfQ __________________ 618 WHP.452 WTQ.4" Python Intake.15 psi.e50.Topgunz SC.SOHO Tune.S1SE.STG 4 Clutch.Motordyne LTH/Test Pipes/Exhaust.485 Pump.1050x

02-03-2018, 12:49 PM	#13 (permalink)
redondoaveb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: So. Commiefornia Posts: 6,381 Drives: 2014 Nismo Gunmetal Rep Power: 2684375	Nice graph. My ethanol gauge was reading 72% on the 541 pull. TechnicZ likes this. Last edited by redondoaveb; 02-03-2018 at 12:51 PM.

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11-15-2019, 05:35 PM	#9 (permalink)
DrBacon Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Washington Posts: 286 Drives: 2014 Nismo Rep Power: 27365	As suspected, the map sensor seems to read boost a little high, when running a vacuum line to the dyno it reads 10 to 11psi. Pretty happy with these numbers, right about what I expected with the crap fuel I have. I think I might try an ethanol blend later on, I don't like the idea of running straight ethanol considering how hard it is to get in my area, but that's another project for another time. I do still suspect something might not be entirely correct with my knock sensor considering there was no effect when I added boostane, so still need to look into that.

11-15-2019, 07:08 PM	#10 (permalink)
Senna-F1 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Cary, NC Age: 54 Posts: 425 Drives: 370SC,EliseSC,MR2T Rep Power: 51	Thanks for posting info. Is it normal to have that big of a power difference in runs that close together time wise? I assume nothing changed.

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