Preparation for the STILLEN supercharger

RCZ · 03-09-2010, 11:40 AM

Mine personally?

Buddy Revell · 03-09-2010, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

Mine personally?

Yeah, sure. Would a 10-12 whp advantage at the top end be worth it if there was a 20-25 whp disadvantage in the mid-range?

DannyGT · 03-09-2010, 01:00 PM

On a side note, it hit 60 degrees here the last couple of days and has just been gorgeous outside. I put a smile on my face every time I think about meeting RCZ 'half way' and putting together an awesome show for everyone! What a difference the days make on how much you can truly enjoy driving the crap out of the car!

...cant wait.

RCZ · 03-09-2010, 01:12 PM

Well, if you phrase it like that perhaps not. However, that's not exactly a realistic situation. A big factor with this kit is going to be upgradability. A supercharger that has a larger housing from the start may suffer a little bit on the low end, but has much greater potential. I think with those figures you were referring to the power levels between the stillen kit and the gtm kit? If Im not mistaken that was around the difference in the power curves.
This is all purely theoretical because we have no idea what the production power output of the CARB legal Stillen kit. They have said it several times. It may end up being higher or lower. So to answer your question I'll say this:

It is absolutely worth it to me for two reasons. 1) The power potential and 2) Price of upgrading. You say 10-12hp peak advantage? I say you aren't scratching the surface of the potential of having a bigger housing at 10-12hp. I think You are looking at more of at least a 50+whp power difference with some very slight alterations. That takes me to my second point, ease and price of upgrading. Changing a pulley and a tune may cost a few hundred bucks all said and done, labor included. So if you wanted to upgrade from say a stillen stage 1 to a stage 2, you would simply keep the compressor housing, but change the pulley and the tune. Correct me if I'm wrong, but GTM said that each staged kit uses a different compressor housing. That means that if you wanted to upgrade from a stage 1 to a stage 2, you wouldnt be looking at a $300 anymore, now you're looking at a $1000 minimum between parts, labor and a tune.

So absolutely, its worth it for me to lose 5% of power in the mid range in exchange for the potential to make so much more and very cheaply. After all, in any situation where you are actually using the power, your RPM's aren't dropping below 4k. That little bump in mid range tq more or less becomes meaningless.

(just to clarify, I don't know that upgrading Stillen will be $300 or that upgrading GTM will be $1000, those numbers are just there to point out the fact that there is a BIG price difference between a pulley change and a compressor change)

Buddy Revell · 03-09-2010, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

I think with those figures you were referring to the power levels between the stillen kit and the gtm kit? If Im not mistaken that was around the difference in the power curves.

No, my numbers were just hypothetical. The curves for the GTM and Stillen dynos were a bit different than that. They had bigger differences in the mid-range and a smaller difference in the top end, but I didn't use those because those aren't the final numbers.

RCZ · 03-09-2010, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddy Revell

No, my numbers were just hypothetical. The curves for the GTM and Stillen dynos were a bit different than that. They had bigger differences in the mid-range and a smaller difference in the top end, but I didn't use those because those aren't the final numbers.

Oh alright, I didnt pay too much attention to that since Stillen's numbers werent final, but there you have it. That is my opinion. What do you think?

Also just want to add.... when you get into GTM's stage 3 kit with the bigger compressor housing, that difference in mid range between the two kits disappears since now you are running similarly sized units.

Zsteve · 03-09-2010, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

Oh alright, I didnt pay too much attention to that since Stillen's numbers werent final, but there you have it. That is my opinion. What do you think?

Also just want to add.... when you get into GTM's stage 3 kit with the bigger compressor housing, that difference in mid range between the two kits disappears since now you are running similarly sized units.

So are you saying one kits stage one will be smaller than the others stage one? So one will be good for low-mid gains and the other for mid-high gains?

RCZ · 03-09-2010, 05:22 PM

Yup ignore button has been put to use since i last posted, so I can't really know if he posted anything back, not that I care. In fact I'm taking down all my unnecessary posts to reduce clutter.

Absolutely lets get back on track with this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsteve

So are you saying one kits stage one will be smaller than the others stage one? So one will be good for low-mid gains and the other for mid-high gains?

Yeah well, I'm sure Stillen will correct me if I'm wrong and I dont want to speak for them, but the stillen Stage 1 compressor is the same size as the other stage compressors. The only thing that changes is the pulley and tune. That's why its very easy and cheap to upgrade.

GTM on the other hand has different compressors for each stage, so yes the GTM stage 1 compressor should be smaller than (less peak power in exchange for a bit more low end torque) than the Stillen Stage 1.

Buddy Revell · 03-09-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

Oh alright, I didnt pay too much attention to that since Stillen's numbers werent final, but there you have it. That is my opinion. What do you think?

Interesting points. Thanks. It'll be cool to see more performance data on all the different stages for these kits when they are eventually released.

Liquid_G · 03-09-2010, 03:16 PM

seriously wtf save the drama for your mama.. tired of reading **** like this.

jmlenz · 03-09-2010, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liquid_G

seriously wtf save the drama for your mama.. tired of reading **** like this.

+1000000

I think everyone is tired of reading this bullsh** back and forth bickering. Someone please be the better man and just not repsond to the other...let it go.

Buddy Revell · 03-09-2010, 04:05 PM

Proper use of the ignore button probably would've reduced the size of this thread in half, LOL.

de_dust · 03-09-2010, 07:42 PM

i hope RCZ gets a GTM kit and do the review of the supercharger... and who ever is a GTM fan boy who is knowledgeable enough to do a review of the Stillen kit... hahaha

Buddy Revell · 03-10-2010, 08:58 AM

Hmmm...hopefully there can at least be a ballpark figure, then. Another question I had was how much boost can one run on an engine with 11 to 1 comp ratio on 91 octane pump gas before detonation becomes a problem? How much more can you run on 93 octane pump gas?

stormcrow · 03-10-2010, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddy Revell

Hmmm...hopefully there can at least be a ballpark figure, then. Another question I had was how much boost can one run on an engine with 11 to 1 comp ratio on 91 octane pump gas before detonation becomes a problem? How much more can you run on 93 octane pump gas?

I feel that 450 to the wheel would be a "safe" number. I say this in quotes because, again, there is no real way to know. There are just far too many variables given that each engine is different. Every VQ37VHR (or any VQ for that matter...or any motor, truly) will react differently to the same stimuli. Your motor may have better tolerances than mine (as an example) and take the same power longer. Or it may be that you have a weak rod or bearing from the factory and the motor lets loose much more quickly. You just never know. But, for a calculated risk, I want no more than 450 to the wheel.

As far as 91 vs 93, there will be a significant difference in the ability to quell detonation. But, boost isn't the main factor when trying to keep detonation from being an issue...timing is more important. Also, keep in mind that more boost does not always equate more power. It depends on the efficiency range of the compressor used and what the IATs might be. IATs are very important in useful power and keeping detonation at bay. Most times, more boost = higher IATs.

03-09-2010, 01:00 PM	#3 (permalink)
DannyGT Track Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Jersey Posts: 919 Drives: 370Z (SOLD) Rep Power: 280	On a side note, it hit 60 degrees here the last couple of days and has just been gorgeous outside. I put a smile on my face every time I think about meeting RCZ 'half way' and putting together an awesome show for everyone! What a difference the days make on how much you can truly enjoy driving the crap out of the car! ...cant wait. __________________ Performance GTM Stage 1 SC, GTM Res.Test Pipes, Invidia Gemini Exhaust, GTM HD Oil Cooler Wheels & Suspension AME Tracer TM02's 19x9.5F 19x10.5R w/ 265x35F & 305x30R, Hotchkis Sways, BC (BR) Racing Coilovers (Car Sold)

03-09-2010, 01:12 PM	#4 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1119	Well, if you phrase it like that perhaps not. However, that's not exactly a realistic situation. A big factor with this kit is going to be upgradability. A supercharger that has a larger housing from the start may suffer a little bit on the low end, but has much greater potential. I think with those figures you were referring to the power levels between the stillen kit and the gtm kit? If Im not mistaken that was around the difference in the power curves. This is all purely theoretical because we have no idea what the production power output of the CARB legal Stillen kit. They have said it several times. It may end up being higher or lower. So to answer your question I'll say this: It is absolutely worth it to me for two reasons. 1) The power potential and 2) Price of upgrading. You say 10-12hp peak advantage? I say you aren't scratching the surface of the potential of having a bigger housing at 10-12hp. I think You are looking at more of at least a 50+whp power difference with some very slight alterations. That takes me to my second point, ease and price of upgrading. Changing a pulley and a tune may cost a few hundred bucks all said and done, labor included. So if you wanted to upgrade from say a stillen stage 1 to a stage 2, you would simply keep the compressor housing, but change the pulley and the tune. Correct me if I'm wrong, but GTM said that each staged kit uses a different compressor housing. That means that if you wanted to upgrade from a stage 1 to a stage 2, you wouldnt be looking at a $300 anymore, now you're looking at a $1000 minimum between parts, labor and a tune. So absolutely, its worth it for me to lose 5% of power in the mid range in exchange for the potential to make so much more and very cheaply. After all, in any situation where you are actually using the power, your RPM's aren't dropping below 4k. That little bump in mid range tq more or less becomes meaningless. (just to clarify, I don't know that upgrading Stillen will be $300 or that upgrading GTM will be $1000, those numbers are just there to point out the fact that there is a BIG price difference between a pulley change and a compressor change) Last edited by RCZ; 03-09-2010 at 01:17 PM.

03-09-2010, 04:05 PM	#12 (permalink)
Buddy Revell Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 303 Drives: 08 Infiniti G37 Rep Power: 17	Proper use of the ignore button probably would've reduced the size of this thread in half, LOL. __________________ '08 IP G37S/GTM Supercharger/20" DPE SP-5 Wheels/ARK GRIP Exhaust

03-10-2010, 08:58 AM	#14 (permalink)
Buddy Revell Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 303 Drives: 08 Infiniti G37 Rep Power: 17	Hmmm...hopefully there can at least be a ballpark figure, then. Another question I had was how much boost can one run on an engine with 11 to 1 comp ratio on 91 octane pump gas before detonation becomes a problem? How much more can you run on 93 octane pump gas? __________________ '08 IP G37S/GTM Supercharger/20" DPE SP-5 Wheels/ARK GRIP Exhaust

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03-09-2010, 11:40 AM	#1 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1119	Mine personally?

03-09-2010, 03:16 PM	#10 (permalink)
Liquid_G A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago Burbs Posts: 1,439 Drives: 09 370z Supercharged Rep Power: 45	seriously wtf save the drama for your mama.. tired of reading **** like this.

03-09-2010, 07:42 PM	#13 (permalink)
de_dust Base Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: baltimore Posts: 92 Drives: 370z black on black Rep Power: 276	i hope RCZ gets a GTM kit and do the review of the supercharger... and who ever is a GTM fan boy who is knowledgeable enough to do a review of the Stillen kit... hahaha