RJ MFG Supercharger kit Feeler...

EZT · 03-02-2017, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

I am going to do physical mock ups next. If this hood doesn't work I will be looking to trade with someone who has a VIS ams hood. That's my back up donor hood.

I hope the AMS is what you use since it's what I have. And hey Georgia isn't too far from where I live.

cooltoy · 03-02-2017, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

I am going to do physical mock ups next. If this hood doesn't work I will be looking to trade with someone who has a VIS ams hood. That's my back up donor hood.

Why not FLy1 AMS. It is the exact copy of Amuse hood. VIS is not quite the same.

TBW370 · 03-02-2017, 02:26 PM

With the price of adding a hood + cost of the kit, what would be the pros / cons of going stillen and then air to air? The stillen kits are cheaper now (I believe Enjuku has them for $6500 - $7000. Then another $1500 for air to air?

Simply inquiring because I've considered SC. Not my intention to derail the thread or bash what RJ is doing.

bullitt5897 · 03-02-2017, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBW370

With the price of adding a hood + cost of the kit, what would be the pros / cons of going stillen and then air to air? The stillen kits are cheaper now (I believe Enjuku has them for $6500 - $7000. Then another $1500 for air to air?

Simply inquiring because I've considered SC. Not my intention to derail the thread or bash what RJ is doing.

You can count the number of 500whp stillen kits on one hand. They are $8k+ then you have to spend another $3k to get everything sorted to come close to 500whp. The stage 1 fully turn key is less and will hit 500whp out of the box. Just saying... plus it's all billet!!! No cast parts!

TopgunZ · 03-03-2017, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

You can count the number of 500whp stillen kits on one hand. They are $8k+ then you have to spend another $3k to get everything sorted to come close to 500whp. The stage 1 fully turn key is less and will hit 500whp out of the box. Just saying... plus it's all billet!!! No cast parts!

I wasn't going to amuse that comment to derail the thread but since we went here... Ill just put down the complete facts so it is out there.

The stillen kit is more difficult to make power and will max out. The PD blower will make that power out of the box and sounds like it can make into the 600's with some additional cooling and fuel mods for more money.

Stillen kit = $6500 new
A2A w/ Tial = $1700
Ecutek and Map sensor = $400
Si trim = $400
9psi pulley = $120
Return kit = $750

Total = Just under $10k

RJM kit = Just under $10k
+
Hood = $?
Shipping for hood = $?
Paint hood = $400 to $700
Look of hood = ?

If I had a choice I would go with the PD blower....once it is proven.

Why? Power capability of up to 600+whp (tbd) and because I have had both systems and I prefer how the PD performs over a centri blower. However, some people like the linear power band of a centri. Also, some people like others to know they are supercharged. The centri with that Tial will for sure let people around you know. Others get annoyed by it.

Personally, the whine of a PD blower under WOT is what does it for me though.

cooltoy · 03-03-2017, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

Total = Just under $10k

RJM kit = Just under $10k
+
Hood = $?
Shipping for hood = $?
Paint hood = $400 to $700
Look of hood = ?

Hood in CF - $1000
Shipping in US - $200

NRGz · 03-03-2017, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

I wasn't going to amuse that comment to derail the thread but since we went here... Ill just put down the complete facts so it is out there.

The stillen kit is more difficult to make power and will max out. The PD blower will make that power out of the box and sounds like it can make into the 600's with some additional cooling and fuel mods for more money.

Stillen kit = $6500 new
A2A w/ Tial = $1700
Ecutek and Map sensor = $400
Si trim = $400
9psi pulley = $120
Return kit = $750

Total = Just under $10k

RJM kit = Just under $10k
+
Hood = $?
Shipping for hood = $?
Paint hood = $400 to $700
Look of hood = ?

If I had a choice I would go with the PD blower....once it is proven.

Why? Power capability of up to 600+whp (tbd) and because I have had both systems and I prefer how the PD performs over a centri blower. However, some people like the linear power band of a centri. Also, some people like others to know they are supercharged. The centri with that Tial will for sure let people around you know. Others get annoyed by it.

Personally, the whine of a PD blower under WOT is what does it for me though.

Thanks for itemizing stillens kit and needed upgrades to make worth the money. I have tried hard to remember everything that people upgrade (or needed to upgrade and/or replace) excluding the a2a.
Just curious, is there more to add to that list?

What youve listed for stillens is just about 10k excluding install (if shop does it).

Im really hoping the whipple will come out to under 10k still-out of the box, to tickle my pickle

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TopgunZ · 03-03-2017, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NRGz

Thanks for itemizing stillens kit and needed upgrades to make worth the money. I have tried hard to remember everything that people upgrade (or needed to upgrade and/or replace) excluding the a2a.
Just curious, is there more to add to that list?

What youve listed for stillens is just about 10k excluding install (if shop does it).

Im really hoping the whipple will come out to under 10k still-out of the box, to tickle my pickle

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is pretty much everything unless you want to upgrade to E85. Then you would need 1000cc injectors and maybe a larger pump. But with all of that you will be around 525 to 550whp.

*Edit*..... BOTH of these kits will require cat removal for test pipes also. Well, unless you just want for the imminent blown cats.

bullitt5897 · 03-03-2017, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopgunZ

I wasn't going to amuse that comment to derail the thread but since we went here... Ill just put down the complete facts so it is out there.

The stillen kit is more difficult to make power and will max out. The PD blower will make that power out of the box and sounds like it can make into the 600's with some additional cooling and fuel mods for more money.

Stillen kit = $6500 new
A2A w/ Tial = $1700
Ecutek and Map sensor = $400
Si trim = $400
9psi pulley = $120
Return kit = $750

Total = Just under $10k

RJM kit = Just under $10k
+
Hood = $?
Shipping for hood = $?
Paint hood = $400 to $700
Look of hood = ?

If I had a choice I would go with the PD blower....once it is proven.

Why? Power capability of up to 600+whp (tbd) and because I have had both systems and I prefer how the PD performs over a centri blower. However, some people like the linear power band of a centri. Also, some people like others to know they are supercharged. The centri with that Tial will for sure let people around you know. Others get annoyed by it.

Personally, the whine of a PD blower under WOT is what does it for me though.

I understand where you are coming from. But lets break this down... Not to be combative but to critically look at the argument.

Stillen kit = $6500 new *This is the tuner kit and thus only comes as a bare minimum. This isn't an apples to apples comparison. More accurately would be to compare turn key to turn key kits Stillen starting at $7100 on sale from $8200
A2A w/ Tial = $1700
Ecutek and Map sensor = $400 *More like $450 after all said and done just for parts... Now you have to factor in a retune ~$800-$1000 for a decent tuner
Si trim = $400 *For the Si trim now you have to factor in labor... so there is a couple more hundred dollars added.
9psi pulley = $120
Return kit = $750 *now you have to ditch the fuel system from the stillen kit to upgrade to one that will handle 500+whp... That means bigger injectors and return system... More than $1000+

Total = Just under $10k * A realistic total would be well into the $12k+ range... And a hacked up kit to make it do what they promised from the get go!

RJM kit = for sake of argument $9,999.00 MSRP *Turn Key! no changes needed no upgrades needed... simplicity in its finest.

OPTIONAL:
Hood = ~$600 (FRP) Optional yeah you can buy the hood or cut the factory one...
Shipping for hood = ~$180
Paint hood = $400 to $700
Look of hood = I am doing the design so it isn't going to be half assed or ugly. If I wouldn't put it on my car you can be sure I wont send it to molds...

Here are some other things you guys haven't taken into account...
-Cost of manufacturing. (I can tell you the RJM kit costs probably double if not more than the stillen kit to make.)
-Quality components: stillen uses cast parts where as RJM is all billet. Also the water pump alone for the RJM kit costs $500 and has a life of over 3400+ hours!!! It will last longer than the water pump in your motor! think about that... The guys at RJM want the kit to last longer than your car!
-Ease of installation RJM wants the everyday DIY guy to be able to install this in his garage.
-As you mentioned Scalability. Yes they could have built a cheaper kit. but that leaves you in the same situation as GAMMA and STILLEN buying all these parts to make them do what they advertised to do. RJM are a bunch of VQ owners they know what you guys want and I can tell you the difference between stage 1 and stage 2 is not much $$$... They built this kit for you to grow into not have to replace everything...

I know this because I am on their development calls and meetings. I am often the voice of the forums and if you guys bring something up it is most definitely heard in the development meetings. They have them every week... Yes the hood is a concern and they have been 3D printing like mad men to mock everything up. They have talked about adjustable motor mounts or new motor mounts but that goes down the slippery slope of adding more cost overall... Because now the every day guy cant install it in his garage... Honestly from all the input they have taken plus the preliminary flow testing you guys are going to be pleasantly surprised.

TopgunZ · 03-06-2017, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

I understand where you are coming from. But lets break this down... Not to be combative but to critically look at the argument.

Stillen kit = $6500 new *This is the tuner kit and thus only comes as a bare minimum. This isn't an apples to apples comparison. More accurately would be to compare turn key to turn key kits Stillen starting at $7100 on sale from $8200
A2A w/ Tial = $1700
Ecutek and Map sensor = $400 *More like $450 after all said and done just for parts... Now you have to factor in a retune ~$800-$1000 for a decent tuner
Si trim = $400 *For the Si trim now you have to factor in labor... so there is a couple more hundred dollars added.
9psi pulley = $120
Return kit = $750 *now you have to ditch the fuel system from the stillen kit to upgrade to one that will handle 500+whp... That means bigger injectors and return system... More than $1000+

Total = Just under $10k * A realistic total would be well into the $12k+ range... And a hacked up kit to make it do what they promised from the get go!

RJM kit = for sake of argument $9,999.00 MSRP *Turn Key! no changes needed no upgrades needed... simplicity in its finest.

OPTIONAL:
Hood = ~$600 (FRP) Optional yeah you can buy the hood or cut the factory one...
Shipping for hood = ~$180
Paint hood = $400 to $700
Look of hood = I am doing the design so it isn't going to be half assed or ugly. If I wouldn't put it on my car you can be sure I wont send it to molds...

Here are some other things you guys haven't taken into account...
-Cost of manufacturing. (I can tell you the RJM kit costs probably double if not more than the stillen kit to make.)
-Quality components: stillen uses cast parts where as RJM is all billet. Also the water pump alone for the RJM kit costs $500 and has a life of over 3400+ hours!!! It will last longer than the water pump in your motor! think about that... The guys at RJM want the kit to last longer than your car!
-Ease of installation RJM wants the everyday DIY guy to be able to install this in his garage.
-As you mentioned Scalability. Yes they could have built a cheaper kit. but that leaves you in the same situation as GAMMA and STILLEN buying all these parts to make them do what they advertised to do. RJM are a bunch of VQ owners they know what you guys want and I can tell you the difference between stage 1 and stage 2 is not much $$$... They built this kit for you to grow into not have to replace everything...

I know this because I am on their development calls and meetings. I am often the voice of the forums and if you guys bring something up it is most definitely heard in the development meetings. They have them every week... Yes the hood is a concern and they have been 3D printing like mad men to mock everything up. They have talked about adjustable motor mounts or new motor mounts but that goes down the slippery slope of adding more cost overall... Because now the every day guy cant install it in his garage... Honestly from all the input they have taken plus the preliminary flow testing you guys are going to be pleasantly surprised.

Are you saying you dont have to tune the RJM kit? So you dont have to add your $800 to $1000 to it? and come on, $800 to $1000 for a tune? Who does your tuning, Jesus himself?

Jayhovah · 03-03-2017, 11:15 AM

A lot of folks holding their breath for this.... not sure I understand? For the "sub-10k" price tag of this kit - couldn't those of you with M6 tranny's (or built 7AT) just go TT? Not bashing, just wondering.

I suppose the installation difficulty and/or labor charges for this kit would be cheaper, but it also will require body work and performance intakes.

TopgunZ · 03-03-2017, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayhovah

A lot of folks holding their breath for this.... not sure I understand? For the "sub-10k" price tag of this kit - couldn't those of you with M6 tranny's (or built 7AT) just go TT? Not bashing, just wondering.

I suppose the installation difficulty and/or labor charges for this kit would be cheaper, but it also will require body work and performance intakes.

I didnt want to start turbo talk either but MT guys could get the BP kit and install it in a weekend no doubt. Some could do it in a single day. I advise MT guys that call me asking about 500+whp on the stillen to just give Sasha a call..lol.

Chuck33079 · 03-03-2017, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayhovah

couldn't those of you with M6 tranny's (or built 7AT) just go TT? Not bashing, just wondering.

Well, power delivery would be completely different. This will be insta-torque. A pd blower usually just feels like a MUCH larger NA engine. Plus, blower whine is awesome.

bullitt5897 · 03-03-2017, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayhovah

A lot of folks holding their breath for this.... not sure I understand? For the "sub-10k" price tag of this kit - couldn't those of you with M6 tranny's (or built 7AT) just go TT? Not bashing, just wondering.

I suppose the installation difficulty and/or labor charges for this kit would be cheaper, but it also will require body work and performance intakes.

Their stage 1 kits will come with intakes. Or you can use your stillen or as I prefer the Admin Tuning intakes.

Yes you can go turbo. Honestly the only well designed twin turbo kit is the fast intentions kit. A fast intentions kit is going to run you $15k+ installed and tuned for a base kit... That is significantly more than the RJM kit plus they hit two different markets as brought up by many in here already.

What a lot of people don't understand is that the power delivery is completely different. You have more power under the curve in the PD supercharger setup and that at the end of the day wins races!

Jayhovah · 03-03-2017, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

Their stage 1 kits will come with intakes. Or you can use your stillen or as I prefer the Admin Tuning intakes.

Yes you can go turbo. Honestly the only well designed twin turbo kit is the fast intentions kit. A fast intentions kit is going to run you $15k+ installed and tuned for a base kit... That is significantly more than the RJM kit plus they hit two different markets as brought up by many in here already.

What a lot of people don't understand is that the power delivery is completely different. You have more power under the curve in the PD supercharger setup and that at the end of the day wins races!

Makes sense about the power delivery... Can't say I agree with you about FI making the only well designed TT kit.... but it looks like I have already derailed this thread.

View Poll Results: What kind of Supercharger kit would you like us to make?
Rotrex C38 based system	54	23.79%
Vortech/Procharger Based Kit	40	17.62%
Whipple Positive Displacement Roots Kit	109	48.02%
I dont want a supercharger.	24	10.57%
Voters: 227. You may not vote on this poll

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03-02-2017, 02:26 PM	#3 (permalink)
TBW370 Base Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Hattiesburg, MS Posts: 43 Drives: 09 370Z Touring M6 Rep Power: 11	With the price of adding a hood + cost of the kit, what would be the pros / cons of going stillen and then air to air? The stillen kits are cheaper now (I believe Enjuku has them for $6500 - $7000. Then another $1500 for air to air? Simply inquiring because I've considered SC. Not my intention to derail the thread or bash what RJ is doing.