I've got a Seibon carbon fiber hood, hopefully there is a way I can modify it, curious to see what options there are as I'm very excited about this kit as long as it's priced right.


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Hey guys, I am still waiting on a hood donor to come in. Supposed to ship out Friday... so I should have it in a week. They are most definitely going to get carb approval. But first they need to get the kit launched to support the costs of the carb approval process.

Bullitt Do you have any other concepts you can share on the good?


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I am going to do physical mock ups next. If this hood doesn't work I will be looking to trade with someone who has a VIS ams hood. That's my back up donor hood.

With the price of adding a hood + cost of the kit, what would be the pros / cons of going stillen and then air to air? The stillen kits are cheaper now (I believe Enjuku has them for $6500 - $7000. Then another $1500 for air to air?

Simply inquiring because I've considered SC. Not my intention to derail the thread or bash what RJ is doing.

I hope the AMS is what you use since it's what I have. And hey Georgia isn't too far from where I live.

Why not FLy1 AMS. It is the exact copy of Amuse hood. VIS is not quite the same.

You can count the number of 500whp stillen kits on one hand. They are $8k+ then you have to spend another $3k to get everything sorted to come close to 500whp. The stage 1 fully turn key is less and will hit 500whp out of the box. Just saying... plus it's all billet!!! No cast parts!

I wasn't going to amuse that comment to derail the thread but since we went here... Ill just put down the complete facts so it is out there.

The stillen kit is more difficult to make power and will max out. The PD blower will make that power out of the box and sounds like it can make into the 600's with some additional cooling and fuel mods for more money.

Stillen kit = $6500 new
A2A w/ Tial = $1700
Ecutek and Map sensor = $400
Si trim = $400
9psi pulley = $120
Return kit = $750

Total = Just under $10k

RJM kit = Just under $10k
+
Hood = $?
Shipping for hood = $?
Paint hood = $400 to $700
Look of hood = ?

If I had a choice I would go with the PD blower....once it is proven. :tiphat:
Why? Power capability of up to 600+whp (tbd) and because I have had both systems and I prefer how the PD performs over a centri blower. However, some people like the linear power band of a centri. Also, some people like others to know they are supercharged. The centri with that Tial will for sure let people around you know. Others get annoyed by it.

Personally, the whine of a PD blower under WOT is what does it for me though.

:iagree:

Hood in CF - $1000
Shipping in US - $200

RJ MFG Supercharger kit Feeler...
 

Thanks for itemizing stillens kit and needed upgrades to make worth the money. I have tried hard to remember everything that people upgrade (or needed to upgrade and/or replace) excluding the a2a.
Just curious, is there more to add to that list?


What youve listed for stillens is just about 10k excluding install (if shop does it).

Im really hoping the whipple will come out to under 10k still-out of the box, to tickle my pickle




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That is pretty much everything unless you want to upgrade to E85. Then you would need 1000cc injectors and maybe a larger pump. But with all of that you will be around 525 to 550whp.

*Edit*..... BOTH of these kits will require cat removal for test pipes also. Well, unless you just want for the imminent blown cats.

A lot of folks holding their breath for this.... not sure I understand? For the "sub-10k" price tag of this kit - couldn't those of you with M6 tranny's (or built 7AT) just go TT? Not bashing, just wondering.

I suppose the installation difficulty and/or labor charges for this kit would be cheaper, but it also will require body work and performance intakes.

I didnt want to start turbo talk either but MT guys could get the BP kit and install it in a weekend no doubt. Some could do it in a single day. I advise MT guys that call me asking about 500+whp on the stillen to just give Sasha a call..lol.

The allure of this particular kit to me is its simplicity in design. I drive my z34 more or less daily. I feel the overall design will be more forgiving on a regularly driven car. The price point isn't that big a factor. Simple is reliable. Use your existing intake setup. Minimal plumbing and wiring modifications necessary. That's the way I picture it at least. It's all speculation until we see this thing.


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Well, power delivery would be completely different. This will be insta-torque. A pd blower usually just feels like a MUCH larger NA engine. Plus, blower whine is awesome.

I'm not one to condemn innovation, and I'm interested to see where this project goes...although the potential hood issues (and impracticality of pleasing a variety of different Z owners) may keep this within a narrow niche.

I've pondered why turbos seems to be a more popular performance option for this car than s/c, and I think it's just a raw numbers thing of more hp. If you enjoy competitive drag racing, then that's another reason to go turbo. But if the car is a daily driver, or otherwise just gets used on public roads, s/c is clearly the better choice, with its superior power band, and as was mentioned above, closer in feel to a NA engine. I owned a turbo car years ago, and did not like the power band.

I know there are also enthusiasts who like things LOUD and to announce what's under the hood audibly, but there are also others (me included) who like to remain anonymous, and not annoy the neighbors!

:iagree:with everything said.

The reason you don't see more sc cars around here is that Stillen was the only option other than GTM/Gamma, and until recently the Stillen kit was problematic (to be kind). The A2A setup fixed all that, but it's only a recent product.

Turbo cars from years ago don't really compare to today's setups in terms of driving feel. In your other thread you mentioned your experience was with a 1980's 4-cylinder turbo car. That cannot be compared with what a Z feels like with a turbo setup in any meaningful way. Most of the drawbacks you mention simply do not exist with a properly designed turbo kit. The sc isn't a clearly better choice, it's just a different option.

I'm also not sure what you mean with your last comment. Are you saying that turbos are inherently loud? That's not the case unless you dump everything to atmosphere, and most don't do that. Other than some whooshing and the BOV, they sound a lot like a regular Z with a mild exhaust.

You've got a great memory!

What I meant was kind of a general comment with respect to BOVs and including exhaust systems, too, but if I choose a FI option for my car, it would definitely have to have a quiet BOV...that would be a deal-breaker for me. Some of the noise experiences I've read in this forum would be intolerable.

Also, I've compared many dynos between turbo and s/c Z-cars, and even the best TT systems still have at best a 500rpm disadvantage when torque starts to advance.

If you rode in a car with the BOVs plumbed back into the intake and the wastegates plumbed into the exhaust, you'd be amazed how little additional noise there is. Turbos make great mufflers.

A sc setup will make its own noises. Centrifugal scs have the same BOV issue, and a pd will have a whine. Granted, blower whine sounds awesome to many (myself included), but whatever FI route you go will have some additional noise.

Back on topic though, if what you're looking for is a flat torque curve and great throttle response, a pd blower is what you're looking for.

My interest has been peaked on this since it first came out. I've turbo'd everything from a Pinto(dating myself now) to my Bullitt Mustang (700HP all forged). Have done Mitsubishis and my daily is a turbo Veloster. As MadSciSnails and Chuck 33079 noted, the simplicity of not having to change exhaust manifolds, coolant/oil plumbing and all the other details that come with a turbo install is enticing. Also typically a lot less heat under the hood. I too have noted at the front of this kit announcement my issue with having to change or modify a hood puts me on the fence.

I think it'll be imperative to have a proper LSD and not the VLSD so budget another $2K on top of everything else. It seems to be so true with this platform, need to pay to play.

I understand where you are coming from. But lets break this down... Not to be combative but to critically look at the argument.

Stillen kit = $6500 new *This is the tuner kit and thus only comes as a bare minimum. This isn't an apples to apples comparison. More accurately would be to compare turn key to turn key kits Stillen starting at $7100 on sale from $8200
A2A w/ Tial = $1700
Ecutek and Map sensor = $400 *More like $450 after all said and done just for parts... Now you have to factor in a retune ~$800-$1000 for a decent tuner
Si trim = $400 *For the Si trim now you have to factor in labor... so there is a couple more hundred dollars added.
9psi pulley = $120
Return kit = $750 *now you have to ditch the fuel system from the stillen kit to upgrade to one that will handle 500+whp... That means bigger injectors and return system... More than $1000+

Total = Just under $10k * A realistic total would be well into the $12k+ range... And a hacked up kit to make it do what they promised from the get go!

RJM kit = for sake of argument $9,999.00 MSRP *Turn Key! no changes needed no upgrades needed... simplicity in its finest.

OPTIONAL:
Hood = ~$600 (FRP) Optional yeah you can buy the hood or cut the factory one...
Shipping for hood = ~$180
Paint hood = $400 to $700
Look of hood = I am doing the design so it isn't going to be half assed or ugly. If I wouldn't put it on my car you can be sure I wont send it to molds...


Here are some other things you guys haven't taken into account...
-Cost of manufacturing. (I can tell you the RJM kit costs probably double if not more than the stillen kit to make.)
-Quality components: stillen uses cast parts where as RJM is all billet. Also the water pump alone for the RJM kit costs $500 and has a life of over 3400+ hours!!! It will last longer than the water pump in your motor! think about that... The guys at RJM want the kit to last longer than your car!
-Ease of installation RJM wants the everyday DIY guy to be able to install this in his garage.
-As you mentioned Scalability. Yes they could have built a cheaper kit. but that leaves you in the same situation as GAMMA and STILLEN buying all these parts to make them do what they advertised to do. RJM are a bunch of VQ owners they know what you guys want and I can tell you the difference between stage 1 and stage 2 is not much $$$... They built this kit for you to grow into not have to replace everything...

I know this because I am on their development calls and meetings. I am often the voice of the forums and if you guys bring something up it is most definitely heard in the development meetings. They have them every week... Yes the hood is a concern and they have been 3D printing like mad men to mock everything up. They have talked about adjustable motor mounts or new motor mounts but that goes down the slippery slope of adding more cost overall... Because now the every day guy cant install it in his garage... Honestly from all the input they have taken plus the preliminary flow testing you guys are going to be pleasantly surprised.

Their stage 1 kits will come with intakes. Or you can use your stillen or as I prefer the Admin Tuning intakes.

Yes you can go turbo. Honestly the only well designed twin turbo kit is the fast intentions kit. A fast intentions kit is going to run you $15k+ installed and tuned for a base kit... That is significantly more than the RJM kit plus they hit two different markets as brought up by many in here already.

What a lot of people don't understand is that the power delivery is completely different. You have more power under the curve in the PD supercharger setup and that at the end of the day wins races!

I just wanted to say that whatever comes of all this, this thread is really bringing up a lot of good points and is a good read, if nothing else!

This is my preference when considering s/c vs. TT. Whenever I look at a dyno sheet, I don't look at the overall numbers, or what is happening on the right side of the graph. I'm looking at the left side, and the linear nature of the torque curve. That extra 500rpms in the 2000-2500 range means everything in terms of response and fun, instead of having to wait more towards 2800-3000.

I would much rather enjoy blipping the throttle at lower rpms and having predictable torque, than a turbo begging higher rpms and a speed that can't legally (or safely) be used in more than a handful of locations. I know lots of guys love this rush, but I fancy a more balanced machine.

If I recall, back in December when this started rolling there was talk of the system being a modular price structure. I was thinking base price for the necessities (SC kit, Whipple, cogs, IC, and heat exchanger and pump), then add on what you need/want (tune, injectors of choice, fuel pump(s), pulley (still presuming it is trying to be made to work with the ATI), and things like that). Thus, making the price somewhat flexible especially for some that already have some the things in the kit and just need the base kit and their tuner to sit in the car. Now the kit is coming with intakes; 75% of use have those already, I thought the kit was being developed to avoid things like that. Is this still what we are looking at in the end, a modular price point, or more of a $10k stage 1 take it or leave it, $12k (random guess) stage 1.5 take it or leave it, and so on plus the price of a hood?

I realize tone on the internet can be mistaken, and I mean no anger or unhappiness; just since numbers are starting to be thrown around I wanted to understand if this was still on the table.

There is often more interest in a turn key solution but if someone wants to provide their own parts a tuner option will be available. The pricing on that won't be cut and dry since people can add or remove parts as needed.

Makes sense about the power delivery... Can't say I agree with you about FI making the only well designed TT kit.... but it looks like I have already derailed this thread.

Don't want to swap my CAI or exhaust...that's why I been following this thread.
I can fab a cowl induction hood scoop.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...fc6bfb815e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f56d0ccdb2.jpg


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I would say performance wise...its a great option...deal killer will ge the hood and I dont think I will be alone with that opinion. Dont have a problem with price just the damn hood thing.

Unless they create a kit to modify the OEM hood at a lower price (as well as the full hood for those who want one).

This Whipple unit doesnt really whine. At wide open you cant hear them.

A PD produces a dyno graph that looks like a NA engine, but driving around it does not feel like NA at all. There is a re-circulation valve in the intake manifold that vents the positive pressure back to the SC inlet so that you are not running boost while at part throttle. This valve VERY DISTINCTLY and abruptly closes when you give the engine enough load (throttle), creating a big surge in power and exhaust volume. Its actually REALLY COOL and fun, however its anything but NA-Like (if you ask me, and nobody did).

At the local speed shop this past week; looking at some nice Harwood scoops.....I have no problem with a hole in the hood & a nice scoop-as looking low profile kinda goes out the window when you're sporting 345's on the rear.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c729e46103.jpg


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I didnt notice

Are you saying you dont have to tune the RJM kit? So you dont have to add your $800 to $1000 to it? and come on, $800 to $1000 for a tune? Who does your tuning, Jesus himself?

I spent 850 on my tune at JTRAN - but that included an Ecutek license.

Road tune - ~300
Dyno tune - ~500
Flex fuel tune - ~800

You can actually grab a brand new stillen kit for under their asking price if you make a few calls (~5500).

You can also do what the Q50 guys are doing and hit 500whp on the stock kit with just upgraded injectors, frozen boost upgrade, and air filter replacement.

BP kit is still bae though, but no love for 7at.

I wonder if the Q50 guys are going to chime in here in about a year when they fry their piston rings or worse. Do any Q50 guys track their sedans? Then less...

Is there even one guy measuring his IAT's after the intercooler (if you can call it that) in the manifold?

Anyways...back on topic.