Recent interactions with GTM/Gamma

bullitt5897 · 10-01-2015, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiller

Do you think as a business owner yourself it's okay to ignore and lie and not return calls,to a customer after he sends you almost ten thousand dollars?if they came thru with my kit as I told them iam ready to do more business and build my car to the next level,but right now I can't even start cuz iam out 8500 and have no sc kit in my hands

That was one of the issues I addressed in my post. Please take the time to reread my post. You will fall into the customer debts and clear open communication.

tiller · 10-01-2015, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

That was one of the issues I addressed in my post. Please take the time to reread my post. You will fall into the customer debts and clear open communication.

I did read your earlier post,I was just asking if you urself treat a customer as Sam has,my worry is are the new people that are so called employing him being infected by his work practices.Iam apart of this thread to help others not end up in my situation,and this not the only way I will do it

2011 Nismo#91 · 10-01-2015, 03:27 PM

I find it hard to believe the owner (Sam is the registered owner) of a company has no say in it's finances or operations. I also find it hard to believe that they couldn't find anyone in CA to register a LLC with beside SAM, why would your trust someone with the legal responsibility of ownership who you know is untrustworthy. Finally, the part's he/they are importing are from China, so you might as well get your TT or SC kit of eBay then from GAMMA/SAM.

bullitt5897 · 10-01-2015, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011 Nismo#91

I find it hard to believe the owner (Sam is the registered owner) of a company has no say in it's finances or operations. I also find it hard to believe that they couldn't find anyone in CA to register a LLC with beside SAM, why would your trust someone with the legal responsibility of ownership who you know is untrustworthy. Finally, the part's he/they are importing are from China, so you might as well get your TT or SC kit of eBay then from GAMMA/SAM.

OK sooo let me get into a little more detail here.

1. Getting EPA permits in CA "the nazi State" is near impossible and takes a lot of time and bureaucracy.

2. I can tell you right now from talking to sam and other parties involved he has no decision and is simply holding the documentation for the business. As I stated earlier perception is reality in the eyes of the customer... In your eye's because he is the registered agent that he is running the place. Did you know that most companies have a female registered agent in order to get minority status for contracts even though the company isnt really minority owned... This is a tax, legal loophole they are using to get up and running quickly. If you you want to put this all on Sam that is your prerogative. However, I can tell you from my in depth conversations that he has very little say in those matters.

3. Your confusing business deals with an emotional response on yours or maybe just other peoples perspectives. I can tell you the group that bought it out have a different perspective all together. There is a lot that most do not know and the limited information you have is what has shaped your perception of Sam and the new company.

4. Parts from China = EBAY lmfao! You know the iphone or android device you use is made in china right... You know that car you drive uses chinese parts, that chair you sit in has chinese parts, everything you touch has chinese parts!!! does that mean everything you own is a chinese piece of Crap??? I have bought and sold some high quality electronics and Carbon Fiber panels from China... and you know what the quality was Superb! why? because I did my due diligence. Many people go to SEMA for the show but every year I went was a business trip. Yeah I enjoyed the show but I picked up two manufacturers there from China that made parts for Lamborghinis as well as big names like Rigid Industries (they don't use them anymore). Both companies made quality parts that were near perfect. Sadly I couldnt do the UAM stuff through my Chinese vendor at the time... I wouldnt have had to refund and replace as many parts for clients over little defects...

5. I find it funny that we have so many google warriors in our club who act like they know business when they havent even filed the paper work for incorporation more or less for an EIN tax filing number...

So before we go questioning everything maybe we should get all the facts straight? maybe a good idea before making blanket statements?

GZ3 · 10-01-2015, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

OK sooo let me get into a little more detail here.

1. Getting EPA permits in CA "the nazi State" is near impossible and takes a lot of time and bureaucracy.

2. I can tell you right now from talking to sam and other parties involved he has no decision and is simply holding the documentation for the business. As I stated earlier perception is reality in the eyes of the customer... In your eye's because he is the registered agent that he is running the place. Did you know that most companies have a female registered agent in order to get minority status for contracts even though the company isnt really minority owned... This is a tax, legal loophole they are using to get up and running quickly. If you you want to put this all on Sam that is your prerogative. However, I can tell you from my in depth conversations that he has very little say in those matters.

3. Your confusing business deals with an emotional response on yours or maybe just other peoples perspectives. I can tell you the group that bought it out have a different perspective all together. There is a lot that most do not know and the limited information you have is what has shaped your perception of Sam and the new company.

4. Parts from China = EBAY lmfao! You know the iphone or android device you use is made in china right... You know that car you drive uses chinese parts, that chair you sit in has chinese parts, everything you touch has chinese parts!!! does that mean everything you own is a chinese piece of Crap??? I have bought and sold some high quality electronics and Carbon Fiber panels from China... and you know what the quality was Superb! why? because I did my due diligence. Many people go to SEMA for the show but every year I went was a business trip. Yeah I enjoyed the show but I picked up two manufacturers there from China that made parts for Lamborghinis as well as big names like Rigid Industries (they don't use them anymore). Both companies made quality parts that were near perfect. Sadly I couldnt do the UAM stuff through my Chinese vendor at the time... I wouldnt have had to refund and replace as many parts for clients over little defects...

5. I find it funny that we have so many google warriors in our club who act like they know business when they havent even filed the paper work for incorporation more or less for an EIN tax filing number...

So before we go questioning everything maybe we should get all the facts straight? maybe a good idea before making blanket statements?

I see what your getting at here, but the end result is the customer is getting screwed over. What ever the business side of things is, should be handled by THE business** None of this is the customers fault and thats where all the D is being received. He agreed as a buyer to the terms at the present time, and the seller fell through his half of the transaction. Its that plain and simple, and anything outside of that is a BS excuse. This is not how business should be conducted, the amount of time wasted, and we are not talking about an intake here....the guy already forked over a pretty penny...I would love for some justice for OP...get the better business bureau involved, idk..something

bullitt5897 · 10-01-2015, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GZ3

I see what your getting at here, but the end result is the customer is getting screwed over. What ever the business side of things is, should be handled by THE business** None of this is the customers fault and thats where all the D is being received. He agreed as a buyer to the terms at the present time, and the seller fell through his half of the transaction. Its that plain and simple, and anything outside of that is a BS excuse. This is not how business should be conducted, the amount of time wasted, and we are not talking about an intake here....the guy already forked over a pretty penny...I would love for some justice for OP...get the better business bureau involved, idk..something

So let me clarify your question... So you want a company that bought the rights to GTM products/designs and in the process hired the original owner as an employee to pay for the mistakes of the previous company. And if they don't honor the mistakes of the previous company then they are the bad guys? Is that what your asking/stating? Because from a fact based argument it holds no water so to speak... Now if you really wanted to get your money back you would have to fight to get your money back through the GTM bankruptcy in which you and many others including myself would be low on the totem pole... It's a losing battle and the fact the new company is even recognizing the issues and has made efforts that have already begun to show retribution for some. I feel that they may be on the right track but at the same time may need guidance from the community on what we would expect as proper retribution for the grievances and debts owed to us.

GZ3 · 10-01-2015, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

So let me clarify your question... So you want a company that bought the rights to GTM products/designs and in the process hired the original owner as an employee to pay for the mistakes of the previous company. And if they don't honor the mistakes of the previous company then they are the bad guys? Is that what your asking/stating? Because from a fact based argument it holds no water so to speak... Now if you really wanted to get your money back you would have to fight to get your money back through the GTM bankruptcy in which you and many others including myself would be low on the totem pole... It's a losing battle and the fact the new company is even recognizing the issues and has made efforts that have already begun to show retribution for some. I feel that they may be on the right track but at the same time may need guidance from the community on what we would expect as proper retribution for the grievances and debts owed to us.

I believe someone should make good on behalf of the customer, this should not fall on the buyer in any way, shape, form or fashion. Im not blaming the new owners either, they inherited a **** from the looks of it. But the customer is lastly, of ALL, who should have to be out. If i read correctly, he cant even get refund? Thats crazzzzzy

ROBERT1183 · 10-01-2015, 03:35 PM

I dont know why people would even contemplate buying anything from this company. Low prices on quality parts. Hahahaha. My a$$. Thats why everyones tt manifolds are breaking left and right. I have the aam kit and have no complaints. Have not seen any break on the aam kit or the fast intentions kits. With them comparably priced why would you even contemplate giving them any money. I read all the time fast intentions stepping up for their customers in times of need. Aam hooked me up on my exhaust and fuel system when i had delays on my car. Its like jumping through the flaming ring of death hoping to somehow not get burned. I wouldnt buy an oil filter from these guys. I was gonna buy their supercharger kit before all this.

bullitt5897 · 10-01-2015, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROBERT1183

I dont know why people would even contemplate buying anything from this company. Low prices on quality parts. Hahahaha. My a$$. Thats why everyones tt manifolds are breaking left and right. I have the aam kit and have no complaints. Have not seen any break on the aam kit or the fast intentions kits. With them comparably priced why would you even contemplate giving them any money. I read all the time fast intentions stepping up for their customers in times of need. Aam hooked me up on my exhaust and fuel system when i had delays on my car. Its like jumping through the flaming ring of death hoping to somehow not get burned. I wouldnt buy an oil filter from these guys. I was gonna buy their supercharger kit before all this.

I would agree with you but please remember AAM had a checkered past as well. It wasnt until new ownership did they turn it around. GAMMA needs to take some notes from the market competitors if they want to stay viable...

2011 Nismo#91 · 10-01-2015, 04:36 PM

I'm just saying it's odd that this foreign company had to be based in CA and wanted to join up with this guy. Most people that do the minority or women owned business do it with their wife, they dont just grab a guy off the street and go get your a minority want to be a ceo? They do it with someone they can trust wont just sell the business and run off with the money. Please dont compare Lamborghini to GTM/GAMMA quality control and checks. Yea they both fet stuff from china but its not the same.

I have no issue with you saying that you know the people there and that they are all good guys and deserve a second chance.

bullitt5897 · 10-01-2015, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011 Nismo#91

I'm just saying it's odd that this foreign company had to be based in CA and wanted to join up with this guy. Most people that do the minority or women owned business do it with their wife, they dont just grab a guy off the street and go get your a minority want to be a ceo? They do it with someone they can trust wont just sell the business and run off with the money. Please dont compare Lamborghini to GTM/GAMMA quality control and checks. Yea they both fet stuff from china but its not the same.

I have no issue with you saying that you know the people there and that they are all good guys and deserve a second chance.

Since you don't know the new owners you would not know why this made sense... I am not going to go into the details of the new owners because I don't feel it is my place to divulge that information. I can tell you from what I know the new gamma is not run by a traditional corporation as you would expect but more like a group of investors outside of the country...

Infidel · 10-01-2015, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

Since you don't know the new owners you would not know why this made sense... I am not going to go into the details of the new owners because I don't feel it is my place to divulge that information. I can tell you from what I know the new gamma is not run by a traditional corporation as you would expect but more like a group of investors outside of the country...

That's usually not a good sign especially if they're out of the country. Investors only give a crap about profit and almost always know nothing about the business they invest in. Unless they repair all damage now and restore customer confidence they have invested in the wrong business.

bullitt5897 · 10-01-2015, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infidel

That's usually not a good sign especially if they're out of the country. Investors only give a crap about profit and almost always know nothing about the business they invest in. Unless they repair all damage now and restore customer confidence they have invested in the wrong business.

Hence my points above. Without restoring consumer confidence they bought a loosing hand for this market

birdman71 · 10-01-2015, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullitt5897

My Recommendations to the new owners:
-Whether you like my opinion or advice here is a list of some simple steps to fix the problems you are facing and will face in this uphill battle to gain market share:

Step 1: Work with Sam to consolidate the list of Debts owed to customers. Offer a product for forgiveness of debt. Current Retail value of product to cover debt owed (and in the case like the OP cover the kit as your costs are not that high for the kits being made). This will gain you a forward step in the community and probably get your ban lifted.

Step 2: Keep your product offerings limited while you are in this start up phase. One of the problems GTM had was a wide and deep product line but only being able to deliver on a narrow and shallow product depth.

Step 3: bring your work in house! Bring your casting Stateside! If Other companies can do it at a lower price point so can you! This means you will have to invest into your market and not be a fly by night operation... Lower profits but more kits sold. The way this market works is by quantity and quality of kits.

Step 4: Invest into targeted technologies that are relatively low cost but reduce your overall production costs. The orbital welder is a perfect example! Instead of outsourcing your welding and paying a premium spend the $20-$50k and be able to have perfect pipes that a customer is willing to pay a premium for! I know I for one would have paid an additional $500 for orbital welds on all my piping! Even at that pricing you break even within your first 100 kits sold!

Step 5: Offer an upgrade path on the current designs! V3 Manifold upgrades for all those with the current V2 manifolds. for those with warranty issues offer a low cost solution to upgrade. Make sure to cover your costs but at the same time not break the customers bank!

Step 6: Hire a marketing manager that can present your company! A face of the business that people can trust! Keep clear and open communication and always always tell the truth! If something is going to be late or their is a complication the customer wants to know about it! You would be surprised how flexible most customers are given clear and proper communication.

Step 7: Choose 1 of the 2 -
Choice 1 - Be a performance shop and take in builds
or
Choice 2 - Be a manufacturer and utilize your own cars for test beds... nobody wants to give up their car for years to be a test dummy!

Honestly having those couple ideas that bullitt put out there, in his novel, it would work for GAMMA. Being able to provide incentives to the customer to keep them for GTM's mistakes but also in the long run making their sale out of it and keeping a customer happy and coming back to their company. They look like the good guys if they do these steps in a customer service friendly and efficient manner.
I'm not saying that what previously happened before to many customers wasn't wrong, because it was, but at least there is an option of fixing right now through GAMMA (although not customer friendly) even though the price has been raised. Maybe their product in general is more expensive than GTM's was due to the quality of the parts. Maybe how they are working the numbers already could be giving you a great deal in regards to their not even having to deal with many of you because they are not legally liable. If anyone isn't happy with GAMMA's new procedure's (if they do not take some of bullitt's recommendations into though), I do know there is a Small Claims Lawsuit being started against Sam. Go ahead and sign up and try to get your money back from Sam. Chances are at that point he would declare bankruptcy depending on what costs for payout and what he has available.

Can't complain about what reality is right now.

bullitt5897 · 10-01-2015, 06:15 PM

Birdman you are 100% right.

10-01-2015, 03:27 PM	#3 (permalink)
2011 Nismo#91 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: NJ Posts: 2,412 Drives: slowly Rep Power: 40570	I find it hard to believe the owner (Sam is the registered owner) of a company has no say in it's finances or operations. I also find it hard to believe that they couldn't find anyone in CA to register a LLC with beside SAM, why would your trust someone with the legal responsibility of ownership who you know is untrustworthy. Finally, the part's he/they are importing are from China, so you might as well get your TT or SC kit of eBay then from GAMMA/SAM. Zbrah likes this.

10-01-2015, 03:35 PM	#8 (permalink)
ROBERT1183 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: ROCKAWAY NJ Posts: 458 Drives: 2011 NISSAN 370Z Rep Power: 13	I dont know why people would even contemplate buying anything from this company. Low prices on quality parts. Hahahaha. My a$$. Thats why everyones tt manifolds are breaking left and right. I have the aam kit and have no complaints. Have not seen any break on the aam kit or the fast intentions kits. With them comparably priced why would you even contemplate giving them any money. I read all the time fast intentions stepping up for their customers in times of need. Aam hooked me up on my exhaust and fuel system when i had delays on my car. Its like jumping through the flaming ring of death hoping to somehow not get burned. I wouldnt buy an oil filter from these guys. I was gonna buy their supercharger kit before all this. TerribleONE, gbrettin, elperuano and 2 others like this. __________________ Aam competition twin turbo 540whp @ 9psi

10-01-2015, 06:15 PM	#15 (permalink)
bullitt5897 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North GA Posts: 6,831 Drives: Twin Turbo Z34 Rep Power: 3683	Birdman you are 100% right. vividracing and birdman71 like this. __________________ *Shop Cars: 2013 318whp Nismo VspecII 370z SOLD, 2009 1000hp+ 93oct 4.0L TT 370z Fast Intentions STAGE 4 #054*

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
To all members: GTM = Gamma Motors	cdoxp800	Forced Induction	83	08-09-2015 12:15 PM
Any recent financings?	scottIN	Nissan 370Z Pricing / Ordering Discussions	14	01-05-2012 05:23 AM

10-01-2015, 04:36 PM	#10 (permalink)
2011 Nismo#91 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: NJ Posts: 2,412 Drives: slowly Rep Power: 40570	I'm just saying it's odd that this foreign company had to be based in CA and wanted to join up with this guy. Most people that do the minority or women owned business do it with their wife, they dont just grab a guy off the street and go get your a minority want to be a ceo? They do it with someone they can trust wont just sell the business and run off with the money. Please dont compare Lamborghini to GTM/GAMMA quality control and checks. Yea they both fet stuff from china but its not the same. I have no issue with you saying that you know the people there and that they are all good guys and deserve a second chance.