That's a great point !! I forgot about th DAMN hole that's on th top of the SC, that's how mine enjested water. The brass fittings on the top one of the has a god damn hole in the center, bottom of the whole for the Allen wrench . So not it'd spill out :/

I ran into that problem with water because my vented hood is open above it. I built an aluminum shield that covers it that fixed that problem. I couldn't figure out why the supercharger oil was milky white at first when I started draining it until I realize that vent is just a hole that let water in. Again Mark at Stillen help me find the problem.


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Attachment 104130

This was the problem.

You only clock the volute. Not the whole head unit.

The first one, but, again, its really more a matter of having the right size core for the cfm, and then blocking off anywhere that air might duck around the HE instead of passing through it, which is what you want.

Also, I'm mainly experienced (and far less so than many -- hence me recommending you get the book first) with roots blowers and A2W IC's. I'm just not sold on A2A as a preferred method...

Vertical will have higher flow, less psi drop, but doesnt cool air temp as effective as horizontal. It is more suitable for efficient compressor running lower boost. If heat is the major factor robbing power in the tune, going for the horizontal style will yield better results.

I didn't read the whole thread but your drawing looks good. Only thing is I've gone blow through before as many others have too. It's can be a tricky tune and most tuners hate it!

But ecutech seems to have speed density out now so I'd do that vs blow through if it was me.

I just found an old thread in this section where this has been a subject since summer of 2012 and some of you guys in here are still at it.

Have we been working on this for 3 years with no success? Maybe there's aspects I'm overlooking.

IMO it sounds like people are polishing a cannon ball. You can only polish it so much. Some things need to be refined but the stillen kit seems to have the best results when left alone and just upgrade other parts of the car. I know car enthusiasts as a whole like to push the envelope and that's who we are. But maybe work on efficiency and not so much re-engineering the existing kit. :twocents:

I have heard people pumping R134a through S/C heat exchangers, and we have already seen bigger heat exchangers used in success.

I think if this turns air to air it will rack up a "W". There is no reason it wouldn't. This V3 has been used on numerous platforms and with many a2a with success. Ive just seen that even Sasha from BP has been on this project for 3 years and that guy is a fab king.

The reason this kit has power envy is because it is a combo of heat and maf placement. So, move to a2a and move the mafs. I know, simple right? But why hasn't anyone done it yet?

Me and sasha have gone back and forth, but honestly haven't really done anything as of now, Hes extremely busy and so am I. its always worked out where the tuners we fly in don't line up with our project.

But Speciality z is coming down end of Aug, Sashas on vacation tell about aug 20th I think he said.

Ill be dropping my car off around the 20th of aug, And tuned by the 30th of aug.

Im only doing this to see how it works, next year im going with the BP kit and his new big turbo, along with a built motor which is in progress now.

Oh nice. Yes, we are all busy. Why does real life have to get in the way of our fun!!

Just picked up a Treadstone intercooler. Bottom in Top out. That and my kit should all arrive early next week. Then once I have it all I will figure out how to route the piping and order that next week also.

So looking at Bypass valves. Seen Tial makes one now and I have always had great results with them. But they come in 1" and 1.5" outlets. Any suggestions or reasons for going with a certain size?

Also going with the 11lb spring based off my 17hg vacuum reading.

Just go with the bigger outlet for more flow. The 1" is more convenient for certain oem setups that have a 1" adapter. If you have blow through MAF, place the bypass valve far away from MAF housing preferably before intercooler to reduce driveability issues. Do you not have to bypass air at idle with a SC? Tial has a spring for SC setups and it opens at low vacuum.

3lb spring would work better for low vac / bypass purposes. I don't think it will bypass enough with that heavy of a spring. Do you plan on plumbing it into the s/c intake for filtered air or adding another filter setup?

Im also starting Andrew's 370 this week end. Ive developed some safety systems on the scavenge system including a setup to use a turbo timer on both car and scavenge pump. I may ditch my electric pump and do a gear driven pump using the a/c compressor location.

This is the one I am talking about. They don't even offer a 3lb spring. I can't find much information on how a bypass is different than a BOV. I know the difference in their intended purpose but as far as the mechanical construction of them, I am not sure. Besides the fact that it is a directed dump vs. 360* dump what is the difference? Can you use a BOV if you wanted?

http://www.treadstoneperformance.com...l+Bypass+Valve

I am dumping to atmosphere pre-intercooler. No filter since it will be blowing any debris away and can not ingest anything.

Good call on putting in a safety setup for that pump. I still have the oil pan spacer and a fitting for you.

I think he was referring to something like the synchronic diverter valve, which actually open at vacuum so that air can have a shorter route for greater response. Genius actually, but for a supercharger i don't see the use. The annoying lag and slow response of a turbo I get though...

the only time you'd want recirc is to keep your car from leaning out too much when not on boost. Pre-intercooler, post, or even on it I don't see as making that much of a difference, except for maybe putting it post to make sure your pressure drop across the intercooler isn't as much of a factor in tuning...or at least that's what was explained to me before.

At 20 psi 1" diameter means there's 15.7 pounds of pressure on the valve, and at 1.5" there's 35.33 pounds. 1" and 11 lb spring is 14.013 psi. 1.5" and 11 lb spring is 6.227 psi. So when do you want it to vent is the question?

EDIT: This is all provided i didn't jack up my math somewhere...I've been paged out for work twice in the middle of the night this week so my math may not be trustworthy until the weekend ;)

Aaron, youre thinking in terms of turbo. Yes a bov is similar to a bypass valve. But you need a smaller spring pressure to allow equalization of air pre and post s/c at off boost situations (cruise and idle) or you'll get cavitation.

Another thing with your air to air setup, be careful of psi drop across the board with the core and all that piping. Remember you s/c wont compensate for it like a waste gated turbo will (or well mask it to some degree). You say 14psi is that at the compressor? If it is, it will be less at the manifold. IMO, I would run a smaller pulley to compensate for the psi drop and a waste gate ( on the charge pipe) to control the amount of "boost" you want.

Check out this link for your bypass valve. http://tialsport.com/index.php/tial-...vs/47-tialbvqr

So why hasn't anyone ran the 2.62" pulley yet?

Well here is what is trying to cool this v3.

hmm...pretty much exactly what I expected. Still can't wait to see your results!

WOW thats out of the intake plenum :/. UG

BTW PM me about your BP kit plans :)

Yeah. Thats why this thing is only good for their carb approval kit of 8psi and it is not designed to cool off anything over that.

That IC is just the manifold part of the system. Upgrading the external heat exchanger make a big difference in IAT.

The Frozen Boost exchanger is quite a bit larger than the Stillen exchanger.

Yes but even if that front mount was the size of the whole bumper itself it wouldn't be able to handle the heat generated at 10+ psi. It ALL still has to go through the 3 whole inches of aftercooler core in the mani. That is the ONLY part that cools the charge air.

How do we know how much more efficiently that frozen boost front mount is cooling the charge? Has anyone taken an aftermarket intake temp sensor and stuck it in the manifold after the cooler and measured the stillen one, then put the frozen boost one on it and measured that one? I am sure it does drop it down some. However, at 9psi and stillen ic at 200* ait's and frozen boost at 180* is still not efficient enough to crank the boost up to 12psi. You will be seeing iat's that will be disastrous. That's what this whole thread is solving.

There's someone ... who has this plan :tiphat:
If my "Z" is finally back, I will Report......sometime

http://img.webme.com/pic/d/die-drei-...pictures30.jpg

.....of waiting



:shakes head:

BTW:

I found this

http://www.the370z.com/attachment.ph...1&d=1435110674

http://www.the370z.com/attachment.ph...1&d=1435110678

the Frozen Boost exchanger doesn't cool the intake air, it cools the water that circulates through the intake manifold. So, where would you put that sensor? I can tell you that the difference when driving before and after installing the Frozen Boost unit is very noticeable. Heat soak is a lot harder to reach than with the Stillen exchanger.

CIN Motorsports custom Bracket with Vortech V7 SC'r, Gates Green Stripe Belts, CIN Custom Intake - Tried to get one, but Bobby had designed and built this for a customer and wasn't ready to go in to full production with it.

Does your motor run on water? Or air and fuel?

Intake temps bro. Intake manifold or plenum, whatever.

Do you think replacing that intake core you pulled out with a copper one would help reduce IAT? Water traditionally is more efficient than air...heat soak is another story, but I would think the peltier effect of the stillen water cooling could be greatly improved with some copper core units on either end for more efficient heat transfer. Then again, flow v. rate of cooling is a factor as well. Improving the flow and allowing sufficient time for water to be cooled could in fact make this system very efficient. Has anyone yet tried increasing the tubing diameter, flow rate (bigger pump?), and core size all together?

I have never seen or heard of a copper cooler. They may exist and yes copper has better heat transfer rate. Its probably a cost thing. It would be insanely expensive to manufacture vs aluminum. Water is more efficient but once it heat soaks its done. On a track it will never cool back down in time to make it useful. If you hit it full throttle on the street then drove around for a couple of minutes at cruising speed it would then become closer to ambient but never fully ambient as that manifold can cook eggs on it and it becomes an oven for the aftercooler inside of it. You are then recirculating hot water all the time.

People have tried bigger hoses, bigger storage tanks, bigger pumps and bigger front mounts. Another thing is to get that storage tank out of the hot engine bay. If you really want a low pressure drop water to air you would need to pipe it so the aftercooler is mounted in the front bumper and not in the oven manifold. Like a barrel style.

hmm. yeah cost of copper isn't cheap at all. Tank outside of the engine bay would work well. I'm sure there's a lot that can be done with water, including going to a liquid which is insulated better (like a glycol-DI water mix). Obviosuly using plain tap water will cause the liquid to gas and leave sediment behind quite quickly, haha. Now that I think about it more, I've worked on systems where liquid can be extremely efficient, but the cost of setup makes it ridiculous sometimes...

I contacted Plazmaman (located in Australia) regarding making a custom barrel style secondary w2a I/C that would mount directly after the SC'r.(There is room enough to do this - but you are limited in size and therefore cooling capacity)
The idea here was to augment the Stillen aftercooler by initially cooling the charge before the TB's .

The barrel style I/C's don't drop much pressure, so it might have worked.

The Plazmaman custom w2a I/C would have been fairly expensive but they promised a quick turnaround.
I also considered an even larger Heat Exchanger than the Frozen Boost, and a larger circulating pump, to provide more cooling potential to the Stillen I/C itself.

Really a guy could just buy a nice racing radiator you would normally use to cool your engine water for long track days. Something like a Mishimoto or the like.

I also thought of going A/C delete along with the Mishimoto racing radiator (removing the A/C heat exchanger section) and using the new found space for the barrel style I/C heat exchanger.

I know you are definitely committed to going Air to Air - It is an extremely reasonable endeavor and the whole purpose of this thread.
I believe you are really on to something here...and you stand to become the 'Hero of Heat' when you get your design configured, installed, and cooling.

Just laying some ground work here for you - And perhaps some others who may be considering upgrading the Stillen ... Doesn't make sense to waste time doing something that someone else has already thought of or even proven doesn't work or isn't practical.

A number of us have already wrestled with trying to find the solution to make the Stillen work with the w2a.

So far there have been a few other novel ideas posted that have been given a great deal of thought and do have some merit.

Hopefully discussing the pro's and con's of each approach will benefit all.

Attached are some pics of the barrel heat exchanger (preliminary dimensions), and the location for the I/C.
I was able to find some more room for the I/C by removing some material from the radiator brace...so the I/C could have possibly have been even larger.

Plazmamans response was not to recommend the idea of 2 smaller I/C's but to go with 1 larger one instead, even though they have seen both ways installed.

Either way - the w2a solution was getting more complicated as time went on.

https://www.plazmaman.com/

Do they make an overdrive crank pulley for the Z?

Has anyone toyed with this yet? It could crank out more psi with less chance of slippage on the sc belt.

Hi Aaron ...
I was hoping that someone would jump in on this one!
I had researched this area when I was still building the Stillen.
Never was able to find a definitive answer though ... but I did speak with Bobby at CIN Motorsports and he was developing an overdrive pulley to spin up his Vortech V7 project.
He said he was going to need a 'slightly' larger crank pulley but didn't have the actual percentage figured out ... and was still in the trial and error phase of his engineering.
Something to consider is the max rating of the Stillen/Vortech V3 is 55000 RPM with the upgraded impeller.
Attached is a copy of the Dyno Run on my car with the Stillen showing little gain in HP and Tqe dropping off after 6900 RPM - Reducing your shift point actually might work to your advantage here.

Here is a link to check out - NST Pulleys.
10% overdrive on the crank might be too much for your SC'r application.
Maybe NST can come up with a custom solution for you combining a lesser overdrive % on the crank and the corresponding underdrive on the accessories.

NST Nissan 370Z Pulley Kit Dyno Testing | NonStopTuning