Stay NA or go to the Dark Side?

Red__Zed

Are you serious? They are adding a stroker on top of FI to make more power. There's still no replacement for displacement, and a stroked motor is fantastic for producing torque.


I didn't stroke my motor for reliability...I did it for POWER



a) apples and oranges
b) happens all the time, especially when you are only picking up a couple of horses



There are only a couple of ways to increase power...it pretty much comes down to trying to make air and fuel mix better. FI does this pretty easily-- you take your engine and you cram more air down it's gullet. If your goal isn't big power, you can still run an OEM-style tune, and keep things perfectly reliable.

To get results of a similar magnitude from an NA build, you are having to run an extremely aggressive tune that kills driveability and generates a whole ton of extra heat to deal with. You are fundamentally limited by atmospheric pressure, and this leaves you no other option than trying to get closer to the edge. It comes down to basic chemistry and physics.


The only way an "NA build" is going to be more reliable than an FI build is if:

A) you put together a crappy FI system
B) you are talking low-dollar, low-power builds (ie, bolt-ons)

ZKraken22

This is gonna be long!

SS firehawk we WERE in the same position only difference is you have the money lol I love the 370z! why else would you get this car if you didn't? it's less practical, more expensive then the competition especially when you have cars like the 5.0,SS, EVO, STI around. I say Put the JUN cams in and with all your mods you will have a respectable car. This is a NA car stay NA. It's the least expensive project you listed in the polls. Even with stage 1 SC kit Cars like C63, M3, full bolt on 5.0 that can reach 450 NA will still kick you in the teeth and if your not out running around racing then whats the point in going FI? Just to say you have X amount of power? I dont want you to be one of those guys that does a project like this and then a year later sales the car! not worth it. Plus if you go with the JUN cams you will be unique and can always add other things down the road like if they do crack VVEL! You seem like you love the Z as i do too. I had a 350z and now a 370z. I want my Z to also keep up with the new and up coming cars on the road And i wanna see if the Cams can add a good 20 RWHP. If you go FI get a Twin turbo kit. I like SC kit's because you can run LTH but turbo kits are the better technology. Go hard or go home! for me its not worth spending big money on the 370z because im getting a used GTR thats the kinda car you wanna put all your money into because you actually see results. With a 370z I have to spend 30K just to beat a C6 ZO6 Ha no thank you. Spend 18K on a swizter p800 and blow 90% of cars off the road. Granted the GTR cost more.

Like i said I would get a greddy twin turbo kit

- The Greddy Twin Turbo tuner kit
- 6 new upgraded Denso injectors
- Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump
- osiris ROM editor license
- professional installation
- professional dyno tuning would cost you 12,775.00 (Zfever price)


But if i were you and you had 20k to spend i'd go NA all the way! you have the supporting mods just get the Jun cams ($675) with a Brian crower stroker kit ($5,184) maybe ACL rod and main bearings (dont touch the heads)
and little other things. Lets just say 8K in parts. Brian crower stroker kit comes as a fully balanced system and ready to install all orders are Special Orders you can get any bore size, any compression ratio and while your over there working they could be ready to go for you when you get home . My next point is people say the cost to do a NA build is to much!?! but yet i see Z's and G's with a stroker kit plus FI kits! and supporting mods! Volk rims, Body kits is that not expensive?
Member Coxjchollywoo said he has seen a NA G37 make 400 with a Stroker kit. It can be done. Member GAbe3d has a all motor g35 with 350 HP and 320 TQ. id much rather have a NA beast with a crazy powerband and a bad @$$ sound. Mind you a NA car is lighter the a FI car no? Member Rednezz on the my350z has Tomei 272 cams, Cosworth heads, pistons, rods stock crankshaft mad 320 RWHP on a VQ35DE motor! So 400 to the wheels on this motor can be done. yes you need money but gosh how much would labor be on a stroker kit?! Stroker Kit + labor how much could that really be?

NA delivers strength and reliability to your Z but a TT Z is a time bomb. Going FI and if your car is your DD you will have headaches and issues and your car will be down one time or another no matter if it is a small issue or big issue.
FI is the best way to get power we all know that but it's to risky to me because if my motor goes bomb im screwed. But that's me, that's my opinion!

__________________
Litespeed Racing Titanium Cold Air intake// GT Haus Axle// GarageLine combo// Nismo sway bars// Nismo Spoiler // Berk TP's

SS_Firehawk

So I spent the better part of 18 hours putting a list together of things I wanted or could get with a NA build. I tried to do as much research as possible with everything I picked, some stuff I'm still very ignorant of, or may be a better choice and I don't know. Here's the list

Tanabe Sustec Z40 Coilovers $1686 (captwholesale.com) 44.63 shipping
Tanabe Sway bars F+R $352 (captwholesale.com) 40.00 Shipping
Cusco Differential $1299 (captwholesale.com) 23.26 Shipping
Eibach Front Camber Arms $377.58 (importpartspro.com) Free Shipping
SPL Rear Traction Links $280 (importpartspro.com) Free Shipping
SPL Rear Toe Links $259 (importpartspro.com) Free Shipping
SPL Rear Camber Links $245 (importpartspro.com) Free Shipping
SPL Lockout Kit $59 (importpartspro.com) Free Shipping
SPL Wrench $39 (importpartspro.com) Free Shipping
Nismo Diff Cover $119.95 (importpartspro.com) Free Shipping
Motul RBF 600 Brake Fluidx2 $31.50 (importpartspro.com) Free Shipping
Teflon Coated Brake lines $109 (conceptzpercormance.com) 15.80 Shipping
Hawk HP+ Front pads $180 (conceptzperformance.com) Combined w/ above
Hawk HP+ Rear pads $120 (conceptzperformance.com) Combined w/ above
JWT Clutch / Flywheel $760 (conceptzperformance.com) Free Shipping
DBA 5000 front rotors $524 (captwholesale.com) 24.10 Shipping
DBA 4000 rear rotors $255.55 (captwholesale.com) 17.20 Shipping
Hood struts $80 (conceptzperformance.com)
Stillen Brake Cooling Kit $299 (Z1performance.com) 39.99 Shipping
OEM Spark Plugs $95 (Z1performance.com) Combined w/ above
Redline Oil Change kit $63.50 (Z1performance.com) Combined w/ above
M370 intake manifold $400-585 (Unknown) 10.00 Shipping
Y pipe resonator $154 (motordyne) 9.71 Shipping
JUN CAMS $640 (JUN)
GTM Upgraded Fuel System $1699 (gtmotorsports.com)
GTM Traction Control System $1299 (gtmotorsports.com)

Any suggestions would help. BTW, this entire list was about as much as the twin charger and cooling mods needed. And I have no idea how much getting all this installed would run me. Granted I can do some of it on my own. The Resonator is just incase I want to run that instead of my Cat, and my dumb *** sold my M370 manifold, shoulda kept that thing.

__________________

oro

Last time I checked Gtms racelogic tcl is around $2300, kinda pushes the numbers a bit more

SS_Firehawk

It may have been, I was too lazy to find it with my super slow internet here Everything is an exercise of patience

__________________

ZKraken22

NA with JUN Cams and existing mods 1st place!!!!!!
(as of now)

__________________
Litespeed Racing Titanium Cold Air intake// GT Haus Axle// GarageLine combo// Nismo sway bars// Nismo Spoiler // Berk TP's

SS_Firehawk

Both NA and FI have proven reliable, given a proper budget and knowledge. IF that were not the case, half the new cars coming out wouldn't be small displacement and turbo'd. It's all a big physics game. Not every motor needs to run a closed deck and low compression to run forced induction. But damn near every motor will have to be re engineered if that boost is turned way up. Keep boost pressure low, improve flow, and you get more performance per psi. Driveline reliability, good luck to those half shafts if your tires hook up. Our motor's as will only get so far without increasing displacement in naturally aspirated form. There are really only a couple things left to do. Exhaust cams, VVEL, increase compression, and octane. We don't have the luxury of Direct Injection. The JUN cam's don't seem like they are going to make a drastic difference looking at the specs. I'm sure I can get some custom ground ones taking it up just a bit further. Our Heads have a lot of unlocked potential if we could ever figure out how to take advantage of them.increasing compression doesn't make sense, because if we are going that deep, we might as well increase displacement. Regarding octane, E85, that's as easy as replacing a fuel pump, lines (if necessary), new injectors, and a tune. I like both options and they have their advantages and disadvantages. And thank the Car Gods we have a tuner market supporting both!

__________________

Navyboy916

You know see a lot of good arguments but those people who have voted for the jun cams why don't you get the cams and get them installed. So far I am the only one so far that is getting these installed. There are great discussions for both sides. This is a good thread. I don't expect massive gains from getting these cams installed and this is.and sucks so bad they don't have a dyno here so I can't post numbers but I will show video so you guys can see it. My car is going in next week to get them installed so stay tuned....

ZKraken22

firehawk? so what are you leaning toward? And believe me i would have been the first to get the jun cams if i had the money its not about waiting to see someone else do it it's about cash flow. Lost my job. Thank God for savings. I hope one day ill be starting a thread about having a NA stroker Z

__________________
Litespeed Racing Titanium Cold Air intake// GT Haus Axle// GarageLine combo// Nismo sway bars// Nismo Spoiler // Berk TP's

SS_Firehawk

I'm still a bit up in the air on it all. But talking with GTM, their twin charger kit is sounding the more enticing route regarding FI options. I think if I were to do FI, I would do that. Labor would be less than the TT specifically because I don't need to touch anything on the exhaust. My shop cringes at the word "headers" and this car. I don't think I would run the tandem oil cooler like GTM recommended, mine is F'n large. I would rather use that money on something else. I know full install cost on this would be around $1500 including tuning if needed.

But I keep being drawn back by NA because it is the least expensive option. It allows me to focus on other aspects of the vehicle besides the engine. The two biggest things are flywheel/clutch and a new diff. Brake upgrades are minor, and I consider the suspension as the best thing they got right from the factory. Tires alone go a long way with this car. I think overall it would be the better car at this point, but would only bring it up to par with the likes of other track duty cars coming from the factory like Boss 302's and 1LE equipped Camaro's.

I'm still up in the air on it all. I haven't heard the definitive argument for one or the other. If there was a way to put together a stroker Z within my budget though...

__________________

SS_Firehawk

Noticed this morning that GTM lists JUN cams on their website for order now. They are selling it for $699. Doing the math, trying to purchase directly from JUN was $640ish. With the changing exchange rates and hassle of ordering, a $60.00 difference isn't bad.

__________________

Kingbaby

*wispers softly*




Do it

__________________
07 Silver Alloy Nissan 350Z Nismo #0191 "Lin'da"
2amR--------------------> VQ I.N.C. - Like us!

SS_Firehawk

Well my Bday is next month, and my sisters punk *** just got an Ipad 3 from the folks, (our family still goes out of the way to get gifts for each other [and I'm turning 30...] I think a little group effort on this won't hurt :P I'm out of country still, so even if I do buy it now, it won't be until either December or when I return before they are installed. Wait.... LIGHTBULB. (in a "Despicable Me voice"). I kinda like the sound of December. I'm supposed to be home on vacation for about 10 days.

Regardless if I go boost, the increased overlap shouldn't affect it much when running under 10 psi. It would be breathing better, so there would be less pressure overall, but the power will still be there. I would have to take it to my local shop to have it done within a reasonable time. They quoted me $1500 for the twin SC install based on what they saw on the forums. That was a pretty good deal. On the other hand, they do specialize in FI. I think I just may do that. I'll get my spark plugs replaced while they are at it.

__________________

wheee!

ummmm you forgot the Boosted Performance mid mount twin scroll turbo kit..... That's the only way I would go IF I went turbo....

Boosted Performance single turbo build

__________________

SS_Firehawk

Indeed, someone else mentioned as well. Haven't followed single turbo's much, I don't care much about STS's implementation of it. I'll follow the updates and see how it pans out.

__________________