External engine oil cooler failure

falconfixer · 08-31-2012, 04:42 PM

50 plus I have to thread jack here....

It seems we have some aircraft wrench benders floating around in here. Haven't seen a thread on here (lounge of course) but it might be time for the a/c wrenchers to have a little nook to swap tales. Y'know like the, get me 50 yards of flight line.

Sorry OP. back on topic

50 plus · 09-01-2012, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falconfixer

50 plus I have to thread jack here....

It seems we have some aircraft wrench benders floating around in here. Haven't seen a thread on here (lounge of course) but it might be time for the a/c wrenchers to have a little nook to swap tales. Y'know like the, get me 50 yards of flight line.

Sorry OP. back on topic

Yea right...Still working for the airlines after 30 years and will incorporate aircraft materials or techniques when I mod or repair the Z...I'll post photos of the cooler install next time I remove the bumper...yea our stock room is a toy store for excellent hardware...matter of fact I used a/c SCAT-10 vent hoses and aluminum flanges for cooling air ducting for my CAI. As for stafety wire, I'll use .032 stainless for locking and .025 for witness wire. My son uses the .032 stainless for attaching the wrap on his headers and turbo scroll heat blanket... Yea when it's done right safety wiring under the hood can be pretty impressive. No more inconel wire...thank goodness.

50 plus · 09-01-2012, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roy'sz

I hated lockwiring when i was in the navy. Still to this day I have nightmares about it lol.

Once you do it for a living and actually see how safety wire can prevent a complete failure of a system, you turn it into an art.

Mike · 09-01-2012, 07:39 AM

Never fixed them, only fly them. I was the branch officer in the hydraulic shop in the navy though. My 240z had stainless steel brake hardlines.

On topic, stay away from the press fit couplers for sure. The company says they probably failed due to hose shrinkage and engine vibrations, but the cooler had 3000 miles on it and I had just done an oil change and line inspection prior to the failure.

falconfixer · 09-01-2012, 08:45 AM

Mike so it blew out where the hose fits into the nut? Any others that you know of besides aeroquip that manufacture their hoses like that?

Mike · 09-01-2012, 09:30 PM

there was no nut, it was a press fit, socketless coupling. There have been a few others with failures, but its been a couple years. I think one other like mine, and a couple with early GTM kits, but they have since solved that QC problem.

roy'sz · 09-01-2012, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 50 plus

Once you do it for a living and actually see how safety wire can prevent a complete failure of a system, you turn it into an art.

I did it enough, rather it be flange shielding the fuel system/ oil system on the ship or lockwiring the fuel nozzle mounting bolts on our Allison 501k17. I truly is an art but an art that i had no desire to master.

to you that still do it!

50 plus · 09-02-2012, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

there was no nut, it was a press fit, socketless coupling. There have been a few others with failures, but its been a couple years. I think one other like mine, and a couple with early GTM kits, but they have since solved that QC problem.

Thats the reason I went with a Z1 kit...I was impressed with the quality of the hose terminations. Good angles, both the 90 as well as the 60 degree angles. Only concern was the recommended final positions for the line attach points at the sandwich plate...You had to find a happy mid point between one fitting hitting base of motor mount and the other hitting alternator. My final position was approx. 1/8 inch from mount...I don't believe the mount has any movement at that point so like you for the first 1000 miles I'll be removing lower engine shield on my weekends and inspect the fittings.

50 plus · 09-02-2012, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roy'sz

I did it enough, rather it be flange shielding the fuel system/ oil system on the ship or lockwiring the fuel nozzle mounting bolts on our Allison 501k17. I truly is an art but an art that i had no desire to master.

to you that still do it!

Thats cool...It might come in handy in the future.

Mike · 09-02-2012, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 50 plus

Thats the reason I went with a Z1 kit...I was impressed with the quality of the hose terminations. Good angles, both the 90 as well as the 60 degree angles. Only concern was the recommended final positions for the line attach points at the sandwich plate...You had to find a happy mid point between one fitting hitting base of motor mount and the other hitting alternator. My final position was approx. 1/8 inch from mount...I don't believe the mount has any movement at that point so like you for the first 1000 miles I'll be removing lower engine shield on my weekends and inspect the fittings.

After my failure, I had a hydraulic shop make me some 3000 psi hoses, but then I needed a larger core, so I went with the Z1 race kit myself.

cossie1600 · 09-02-2012, 09:47 AM

All the early failures led me to do a DIY

wstar · 09-02-2012, 10:13 AM

There's been a few reported here, if you search

. More importantly, there's bound to be more that aren't reported here. The bottom line of the situation is adding external lines to your oil system exposes you to an additional set of risks. Aside from having a high quality install with good fittings and hoses and inspecting it regularly, your best defense is an oil pressure gauge.

TopElement · 09-02-2012, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

There's been a few reported here, if you search

. More importantly, there's bound to be more that aren't reported here. The bottom line of the situation is adding external lines to your oil system exposes you to an additional set of risks. Aside from having a high quality install with good fittings and hoses and inspecting it regularly, your best defense is an oil pressure gauge.

Again, a careful installation with good parts should be worry-free!
When driving hard on the track, on a road trip, or even just around town driving, one shouldn't have to constantly worry about parts failing and getting stranded.

Even push-fit hoses should have high quality hose clamps used on each fitting.

wstar · 09-02-2012, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopElement

Again, a careful installation with good parts should be worry-free!
When driving hard on the track, on a road trip, or even just around town driving, one shouldn't have to constantly worry about parts failing and getting stranded.

Even push-fit hoses should have high quality hose clamps used on each fitting.

A careful installation with good parts is a pre-requisite to anything so important, of course.

Mine's been on for a little over 3 years now without issue, but I wouldn't call it worry free. I feel much better with an oil pressure gauge with an active alarm setting (+buzzer). Hoses can blow out. Things do happen. Without a gauge and/or alarm most likely it'll be too late to save the engine by the time you realize it. The stock car doesn't have this risk from the factory.

My point in bringing all of this up in the other thread was that I don't think (for the average person driving on the street) the risk tradeoff on the external oil cooler without a gauge is worth it, especially if you're just trying to cool things down for power and not really hitting dangerous temp levels to begin with. Half-limp-mode kicks in at 280, and I wouldn't worry too much unless you're spending a lot of time in the 250+ range.

Even if you're bumping into that range a bit on the street, there are other things you could do to bring temps down a hair. Mess with fan settings in UpRev. Run less coolant in your mix, and add water-wetter. Drop in a CSF radiator. Better fans, etc... These solutions won't make as dramatic a difference as an oil cooler, but they're a hell of a lot safer.

1slow370 · 09-04-2012, 01:33 AM

i had an early gtm kit blow a line i replaced them with hightemp hydraulic lines and crimped fittings. could hang the engine from the cooler now

09-01-2012, 07:39 AM	#19 (permalink)
Mike The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Loganville, GA Posts: 5,944 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 2187	Never fixed them, only fly them. I was the branch officer in the hydraulic shop in the navy though. My 240z had stainless steel brake hardlines. On topic, stay away from the press fit couplers for sure. The company says they probably failed due to hose shrinkage and engine vibrations, but the cooler had 3000 miles on it and I had just done an oil change and line inspection prior to the failure. __________________ NISSAN: 75 280Z / 86 300ZX GLL /87 Sentra SE / 03 350Z / 23 Z Porsche: 93 968 / 23 Macan GTS / 93 968

09-01-2012, 09:30 PM	#21 (permalink)
Mike The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Loganville, GA Posts: 5,944 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 2187	there was no nut, it was a press fit, socketless coupling. There have been a few others with failures, but its been a couple years. I think one other like mine, and a couple with early GTM kits, but they have since solved that QC problem. __________________ NISSAN: 75 280Z / 86 300ZX GLL /87 Sentra SE / 03 350Z / 23 Z Porsche: 93 968 / 23 Macan GTS / 93 968

09-02-2012, 10:13 AM	#27 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	There's been a few reported here, if you search . More importantly, there's bound to be more that aren't reported here. The bottom line of the situation is adding external lines to your oil system exposes you to an additional set of risks. Aside from having a high quality install with good fittings and hoses and inspecting it regularly, your best defense is an oil pressure gauge. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

09-04-2012, 01:33 AM	#30 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7251	i had an early gtm kit blow a line i replaced them with hightemp hydraulic lines and crimped fittings. could hang the engine from the cooler now __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

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08-31-2012, 04:42 PM	#16 (permalink)
falconfixer Track Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: 10aC Posts: 978 Drives: Taco Rep Power: 77	50 plus I have to thread jack here.... It seems we have some aircraft wrench benders floating around in here. Haven't seen a thread on here (lounge of course) but it might be time for the a/c wrenchers to have a little nook to swap tales. Y'know like the, get me 50 yards of flight line. Sorry OP. back on topic

09-01-2012, 08:45 AM	#20 (permalink)
falconfixer Track Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: 10aC Posts: 978 Drives: Taco Rep Power: 77	Mike so it blew out where the hose fits into the nut? Any others that you know of besides aeroquip that manufacture their hoses like that?

09-02-2012, 09:47 AM	#26 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 31	All the early failures led me to do a DIY