The Baseline Dyno Comparison chart & Calculator

[RCZ]

I would like to start a collection of all the baseline dyno readings for the VQ37VHR.

The purpose is to create a "multiplier chart" to get an idea of how each dyno compares to the other. Once we have a good amount of readings, we can have a "control" dyno which will be equal to "1" on our table. That will be the dyno that everyone uses to convert their readings to a number that actually has any meaning. Once we have a pretty extensive number of readings, then someone with programming skills can make a little calculator where you just plug in your type of dyno and power of your car and it will spit out a more "universal" reading that you can actually compare to other peoples readings.

Also, once we have that "control" dyno, which will be the dyno that's the mean of all the dynos, we will have a better idea of what the actual drivetrain loss is and could very loosely calculate it.

Does that make sense to people?

So lets start collecting baseline dyno runs. You have to tell me
1) The kind of dyno.
2) The Altitude (which we will factor in eventually if theres enough data). Hopefully we can keep the readings close to sea level.
3) If possible, a ballpark ambient temperature.
3) The BASELINE reading.

[Crash]

Gotcha. In for the info. I can program and write a calculator in Java or PHP... (Might even be able to make a plug-in for the vbulletin.)

[WShade]

I know this will take me a while to get the information as I am still waiting on delivery and the short break in time. But, my best friend owns a performance shop with a Dyno Jet and a Dyno Dynamics so I will be able to get both readings with the same conditions.

[MightyBobo]

People are far too concerned with dyno number readouts heh.

The problem with all this is that 2 of the same dyno type in the same city, can both read different numbers even run at the same exact time. Each dyno is different, and people need to realize that they are really only good for being used as a tuning tool, and e-Bragging rights. Nothing more. I have a friend who had a single turbo 5.3L ford Fairmont that only put down a little over 500 to the wheels, yet it still ran mid 9's at the 1/4th.

But, for the record, I will take anyone's Mustang Dyno numbers over a Dynojet ANY day of the week.

[RCZ]

Yes we know. We know there's other variables and we can't account for everything. That is the point of this; to take as many readings as possible to minimize the outliers.

I don't care about dyno numbers or quartermile runs, I care about lap times so don't start that with me The point is to have some way to compare the effects of different combinations of mods. We are going to take the average baseline run hp rating for reach dyno.

I am ALL about measuring HP as a percentage increase over baseline run. That will completely even out the field across the board. The problem is that not everyone gets a baseline run, so I figured this might help people get an idea of their actual HP as compared to a large number of people.

[Crash]

Well, the truth is that if we did as RCZ says and get enough data, we can actually get some average baseline numbers too. Doing so would allow us to get a "relatively" accurate baseline. With people dynoing the with the same mods, we can get a % increase for these mods. There's a LOT of data that will need to be taken into account, and again, like RCZ says, we can't account for everything. But a good average for everything will allow us to have good estimates. Being 1% off with numbers below 800HP isn't going to be a big deal at all.

[MightyBobo]

Originally Posted by RCZ

Yes we know. We know there's other variables and we can't account for everything. That is the point of this; to take as many readings as possible to minimize the outliers.

I don't care about dyno numbers or quartermile runs, I care about lap times so don't start that with me The point is to have some way to compare the effects of different combinations of mods. We are going to take the average baseline run hp rating for reach dyno.

I am ALL about measuring HP as a percentage increase over baseline run. That will completely even out the field across the board. The problem is that not everyone gets a baseline run, so I figured this might help people get an idea of their actual HP as compared to a large number of people.

Im all about lap times now myself, the point I was just trying to make is that his numbers read low on a dyno, yet he put an amazing amount of that power to the ground effectively so who cares? heh

Well I guess in the long run this will be a good thing. That way all these people thinking that slapping a cat back and nothing else onto the car will increase their Butt dyno numbers will be quiet because the numbers will prove them wrong. We had similar things on LS1tech, but people were so well versed with the LS1 over there, that you could throw them a list of mods and people could guess your HP and torque very effectively heh.

[Crash]

^^^ HAHA! Yeah, aint that the truth?!

LSx motors are SO easy to predict numbers for, though. They're pretty much the universal wh0re of motor swaps and they've been kicking @ss since 97! (12 years of serious street domination!)

[RCZ]

Well it is the same with STI motors for me. If you tell me the brand and model of each performance part I can tell you +/- 10whp what you're going to get. It comes down to how many reference points you have, whether mental or otherwise. The more the better, which is why I would like to put this together, its going to save us a lot of time.

[jyhighsky]

370z Statistics: 332hp/270tq @ crank

RCZ's 370z: 256 RWHP and 204 WTQ [MUSTANG DYNO]
-0.22891566265060240963855421686747 HP
-0.24444444444444444444444444444444 TQ

STILLEN: 276 RWHP and 227 WTQ
-0.16867469879518072289156626506024 HP
-0.15925925925925925925925925925926 TQ

GT Motorsports: 287 RWHP and 237 WTQ
-0.13554216867469879518072289156627 HP
-0.12222222222222222222222222222222 TQ

DD Motorsports: 285.46 RWHP and 243.40 WTQ
-0.14018072289156626506024096385542 HP
-0.098518518518518518518518518518519 TQ

Injected Performance: 258 HP [MUSTANG DYNO]
-0.22289156626506024096385542168675 HP
TQ unknown

370z dyno: 289 rwhp and 229 rwtq
-0.12951807228915662650602409638554 HP
-0.15185185185185185185185185185185 TQ

17.16% was the average RWHP loss for these SIX cars on their dyno's
15.48% was the average TORQUE loss among FIVE of five cars, for Injected did not provide one.

As mentioned by RCZ, Mustang Dyno's usually reads 8% - 12% LOWER than other dyno's. For example: Dynojet.

Source for dyno numbers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDQWK1Ny3q0
RCZ's 370Z Journal.

[jyhighsky]

If you take the average RWHP loss among these cars, and apply it to the formula for Power to Ratio:
{P-to-W} = P/W

Provided by nissanusa.com
Manual Transmission Curb Weight: 3232
Manual Transmission Touring Curb Weight: 3278
Automatic Transmission Curb Weight: 3269
Automatic Transmission Touring Curb Weight: 3314

Now that we have the weight. We take the average RWHP and apply that. -17.16% = 275 RWHP. Let's use the Manual Transmission Curb Weight of 3232. So it comes out to a surprising 0.0850866 HP per pound. It's no Atom, but from other statistics I've done. Having .085 HP/LB is really great. Note that, this is RWHP not Crank. Crank would result to 0.10272277 HP/LB.

[RCZ]

Good stuff! thanks for the calculations!

[semtex]

I did some searching around and found the following write up posted on multiple forums. Any opinions?

Interesting Dyno Factoids (Dyno Dynamics, Mustang, Dynojet) - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

\\Interesting Dyno Factoids (Dyno Dynamics, Mustang, Dynojet)
I got these from the shop that is about to dyno my M Coupe. It is consistent with what I have been told elsewhere but certainly an interesting read:

20) My car makes 300 hp but your dyno says it makes 215. What is up? Our dyno is the most accurate measurement of torque at the wheels. More accurate than most. No "interpolation" or "estimation" or "inertia factors" are applied like they are on other competitors' lesser machines. What this means is that this is the actual torque being applied at the tire. Typically, a 300hp all wheel drive car will measure in around 210-215 on our dyno. This is normal.

21) I went to a Mustang dyno and they said theirs reads low, but you say yours reads low. Is this just some trick used by tuners? The Dyno Dynamics is known throughout the industry as being the "heartbreaker" dyno - because it breaks the heart of every man that thinks he has 500 hp when he really has 350. The Dyno Dynamics reads lower than the Mustang. It reads WAY lower than a Dynojet. It reads WAY lower than a Dynapack (which actually reads too high on tip-in). The closest in numbers (at low HP) is the mustang, but using the above example, the same 300hp car was dyno'd back to back on a Dyno Dynamics 450 LowBoy (what we have) and a Mustang AWD500E (what some other guys have), and that 300hp rated car consistently read 223 on the Dyno Dynam ics and 249 on the Mustang. One hour apart, exact same car, same town, same altitude, etc.

22) Why dont you just make your numbers look high to be the same as some others? Dyno correction is not a fixed amount. In other words, adding 30% at xx RPM and xx power does not translate. i.e. Using the above example, a car that makes 225 is about 1.3 to get 300. A 900hp car on this dyno is NOT making 1200hp ! Dyno numbers should be used for relative back to back comparison, and nothing else.

23) How do I compare my dyno results to others with similar setups? For Subaru owners, there are enough internet resources to compare, but essentially, Dyno Dynamics and Dynapack are the only 'consistent' numbers, and Dynapack reads very high, Dyno Dynamics very low. We can help you seek out other similar results. A great resource listing a slew of Dyno Dynamics HP baselines is available in the Gallery section at the KTR Performance Dyno Gallery Web Site. It should be noted that KTR uses atmospheric correction, which we do not use on our dyno plots.

24) How do I compare my pulls to Mustang Dyno, or a Dynojet, or a Dynapack? Every dyno is different. If you want dynojet or mustang-ish #s you have to multiply by 1.18 or so, 1.25+ for DynaPack. But remember, this is just ballpark, as it is not linear.

The way these are numbered, I am led to believe that they are an excerpt from some list, but I haven't been able to find the original source list yet.

[RCZ]

Very nice Semtex, I guess they did the work for us already

[semtex]

Well, reason I was looking into this is that yesterday, bullitt5897 and I met up with Sharif at Forged Performance and did dyno runs on a Dyno Dynamics. We'll post the sheets up soon (waiting for Sharif to email them to Mike (bullitt5897). Mike's 370Z is completely bone stock, and he got 254 RWHP. Mine has the Stillen exhaust and Berk HFCs. Other than that, our Z's are configured the same (sport pkg, 6MT). Get this -- I pulled 291.7! Now, I never did a baseline on mine while it was bone stock, so you have to take this gain with a grain of salt. But still, even if you allow for a, say, 10 HP margin of error, I think it's sufficient to show that the Stillen/Berk combo yields some significant gains.