Oil Coolers and Over cooling

gomer_110 · 05-31-2012, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phohman

OK Same topic (maybe different stupid queston) Just picked up a 2012 nismo (production date 11/11) and there is NO oil cooler on the Veh. My quess is Nissan installed on later productions. Any one Know if this is the case?

Don't take this the wrong way, but you do know that the stock cooler on the '12's is not a front mounted air to oil cooler right? All the stock one is, is a glorified sandwich plate to allow engine coolant to cool the oil.

roy'sz · 05-30-2012, 12:07 PM

I use exactly 5qts of oil and it puts me right at the high dot on my dipstick, and I too have a little bit of oil consumption. The service manager told me that it was normal

Spikuh · 05-30-2012, 02:27 PM

Just read through this and i have a question on this part:

Quote:

This engine oil temp is what you want to see COMING OUT from the motor. In the case of the 370z and any add-on oil cooler, you are actually getting a false reading. Since the factory temp gauge reads engine oil as it exits the Oil Filter, you are actually reading the oil temp coming directly from the oil cooler. The flow pattern for engine oil on a 370z is as follows:

Pick Up Tube --> Oil Pump --> Oil Filter IN --> Oil Filter Out --> Oil Cooler --> Engine Block (Temp and Pressure gauges are located in this galley)

The temp you are reading is actually what is going back INTO the engine (which is perfect). By the time it cycles thru the engine, you can expect to see engine temps in 200 degree range.

If I am not misunderstanding the bolded part, it is saying the oil temp gauge in the car is reading the temp before the oil gets run through the engine correct?

So if I am seeing temps of 190* on the guage, that would mean the temps for the oil coming out of the engine is probably a bit higher than 200*?

Also if I am not misunderstanding, the oil temp we are predominantly concerned with is the temps leaving the engine?

Just wanting some clarification.

roy'sz · 05-31-2012, 12:23 PM

which I might add is not nearly as effecient as the air to oil cooler. The warmer your oil gets the warmer the coolant gets and vice versa. I was extremely disappointed when I saw that nissan did this. They should have done it the right way.

phohman · 05-31-2012, 12:39 PM

So if I were to install My Z1 cooler, would it be better to tap in to the oil circuit and have both cooler's or remove the OE one. If it is water cooled then it is also warmed quicker in the winter right?

gomer_110 · 05-31-2012, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phohman

So if I were to install My Z1 cooler, would it be better to tap in to the oil circuit and have both cooler's or remove the OE one. If it is water cooled then it is also warmed quicker in the winter right?

Don't know about adding a Z1 cooler to it but yes water-oil cooler is going to bring your oil temps up quicker in the winter versus a oil-air cooler.

Super Tanooki · 05-31-2012, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

I would look at the IAT's that are coming in as well. Being in Vegas, the air is thinner, the pressure is lower, and it's much hotter. Did you notice it dropping power at 205 in the winter?

Yeah this has been my assumption also since I got the car over a year ago. IAT's just getting too hot. Now that I have the oil cooler I never reach a high enough temp to feel the lag. In summer the air is hot, but the car still produces great power until about 20-25 minutes into a journey when that 205 (ergo 225) temp is hit, then it kicks on the lag. So it must be the already hot air coming in compounding with massive heat-soaking that's heating up my cold-air-intakes (Stillen G3s). I've flipped up the hood a couple of times when it's lagging and my intake pipes are too hot to touch. How do I check my IAT readings?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIGItonium

While we're on the topic of oil coolers, I have a stupid question. Are you guys using more than 5 quarts of oil? I might be 1 quart short (~ 10mm from H mark). I'm at 1,300 miles now since the last change.

I have the Stillen 25-row. Mine takes about 5.5 quarts. But I don't drain the OC core when I oil change. Should I be?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

The behavior varies by vehicle design, but I too have definitely observed that a Z with normal ECU settings runs colder with the AC on. This seems counter-intuitive at first since the AC should be (a) adding engine load and (b) adding a little more heat back into the radiator via the condenser.

That's exactly what I though, which is why I was surprised when I succumbed to the heat and turned on the AC and saw my engine actually cool down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

UpRev can now control this behavior: there are independent settings for AC-on vs AC-off which control fan duty cycle -vs- water temps. Aside from turning them on earlier in general, you can set the AC-on settings the same as AC-off and then you don't have to turn on the AC just to get the fans going.

This sounds good. I also read somewhere on the forum that Nissan's stock ECU maps are overly harsh on pulling timings in response to hot IAT readings, and I'm hoping that, with Uprev, the power-cut won't come so willingly.

SS_Firehawk · 05-31-2012, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Tanooki

Yeah this has been my assumption also since I got the car over a year ago. IAT's just getting too hot. Now that I have the oil cooler I never reach a high enough temp to feel the lag. In summer the air is hot, but the car still produces great power until about 20-25 minutes into a journey when that 205 (ergo 225) temp is hit, then it kicks on the lag. So it must be the already hot air coming in compounding with massive heat-soaking that's heating up my cold-air-intakes (Stillen G3s). I've flipped up the hood a couple of times when it's lagging and my intake pipes are too hot to touch. How do I check my IAT readings?

I check my IAT's using cipher that came with my uprev cable. I may be able to check your out. It's diagnostic and don't think the license has anything to do with it, but I may be wrong. Either way Uprev is definitely a way to help with your issue. I can see the temps go up when I'm at a light, then after take off, I can see temps plummet down. Let me know and I can meet you somewhere and we can look at it.

roy'sz · 05-31-2012, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phohman

So if I were to install My Z1 cooler, would it be better to tap in to the oil circuit and have both cooler's or remove the OE one. If it is water cooled then it is also warmed quicker in the winter right?

if you keep a "dual" cooler setup you won't see much of a change because the oil and engine coolant are crossflowing. I woudn't thnk that it would be a reasonable setup to have, imho.

1slow370 · 06-01-2012, 03:24 AM

to "tap"the 2012 cooler you would have to stack the sandwich plates as the only lines going to the oem unit are coolant. don't know if there is enough room for that and you would need a longer filter pipe that can go through both.

and roy'sz it would makes sense because while the coolant and oil temps would cross idealy u want the oil to be 200-220 which is engine coolant temp. the air cooler is to keep it from going over that for track use.

1slow370 · 06-01-2012, 03:32 AM

to "tap"the 2012 cooler you would have to stack the sandwich plates as the only lines going to the oem unit are coolant. don't know if there is enough room for that and you would need a longer filter pipe that can go through both.

and roy'sz it would makes sense because while the coolant and oil temps would cross idealy u want the oil to be 200-220 which is engine coolant temp. the air cooler is to keep it from going over that for track use.

roy'sz · 06-01-2012, 12:32 PM

lol that definitely would not work. Your coolant temp would increase when running your car hard because your oil temp is increasing. Just because you have 2 coolers doesn't mean you will effeciently cool the car off. the guage reads the oil temp before it flows through the engine. If you are tracking your car yes you do want the oil between 200-220, and thats where my z runs with my 34row cooler.

Please explain how you would think that having a) your engine oil as a heat source and b) cross flowing it with your coolant, which is also another heat source...and with both radiating off of eachother adding another cooler would help you maintain a 200-220 temp when pushing the car to its designed limits? I really honestly don't see it but would love to see how it could "Possibly" work.

wstar · 06-03-2012, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roy'sz

lol that definitely would not work. Your coolant temp would increase when running your car hard because your oil temp is increasing. Just because you have 2 coolers doesn't mean you will effeciently cool the car off. the guage reads the oil temp before it flows through the engine. If you are tracking your car yes you do want the oil between 200-220, and thats where my z runs with my 34row cooler.

Please explain how you would think that having a) your engine oil as a heat source and b) cross flowing it with your coolant, which is also another heat source...and with both radiating off of eachother adding another cooler would help you maintain a 200-220 temp when pushing the car to its designed limits? I really honestly don't see it but would love to see how it could "Possibly" work.

It works because the radiator can shed a lot more heat than it's usually asked to (it has a lot more fins/rows/surface than even a 34-row oil cooler does), and the oil gets hotter than the water does. The problem isn't that oil<->water cooling doesn't work, the problem is just that the 2012 OEM sandwichplate cooler is too small and inefficient to get the job done.

AM Perf was running a custom oil<->water unit combined with an upgraded radiator in longer competition runs, seems like it worked for them. It's probably the better and cleaner solution in general. It will warm up oil faster, the oil lines are shorter and safer (oil<->water unit inside the engine bay, behind the radiator), less bulk/weight out at the tip of the car, etc.

I think Travis has been trying out some Laminova units: complete-oil-coolers-ec54 - oil-coolers - The Laminova heat exchangers - Laminova, but he's been focused on other issues lately. I really think with the right Laminova and an upgraded (e.g. CSF) radiator, you shouldn't need to run an extra Setrab core out front except perhaps in the most extreme of conditions (long races in the desert? I donno).

gomer_110 · 06-03-2012, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

It works because the radiator can shed a lot more heat than it's usually asked to (it has a lot more fins/rows/surface than even a 34-row oil cooler does), and the oil gets hotter than the water does. The problem isn't that oil<->water cooling doesn't work, the problem is just that the 2012 OEM sandwichplate cooler is too small and inefficient to get the job done.

AM Perf was running a custom oil<->water unit combined with an upgraded radiator in longer competition runs, seems like it worked for them. It's probably the better and cleaner solution in general. It will warm up oil faster, the oil lines are shorter and safer (oil<->water unit inside the engine bay, behind the radiator), less bulk/weight out at the tip of the car, etc.

I think Travis has been trying out some Laminova units: complete-oil-coolers-ec54 - oil-coolers - The Laminova heat exchangers - Laminova, but he's been focused on other issues lately. I really think with the right Laminova and an upgraded (e.g. CSF) radiator, you shouldn't need to run an extra Setrab core out front except perhaps in the most extreme of conditions (long races in the desert? I donno).

Finally someone that gets it. It would be interesting to know what Doran racing is doing on their Conti Series 370z.

And for the record water will always be a better heat transfer medium than air. That's just simple engineering.

roy'sz · 06-03-2012, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

It works because the radiator can shed a lot more heat than it's usually asked to (it has a lot more fins/rows/surface than even a 34-row oil cooler does), and the oil gets hotter than the water does. The problem isn't that oil<->water cooling doesn't work, the problem is just that the 2012 OEM sandwichplate cooler is too small and inefficient to get the job done.

AM Perf was running a custom oil<->water unit combined with an upgraded radiator in longer competition runs, seems like it worked for them. It's probably the better and cleaner solution in general. It will warm up oil faster, the oil lines are shorter and safer (oil<->water unit inside the engine bay, behind the radiator), less bulk/weight out at the tip of the car, etc.

I think Travis has been trying out some Laminova units: complete-oil-coolers-ec54 - oil-coolers - The Laminova heat exchangers - Laminova, but he's been focused on other issues lately. I really think with the right Laminova and an upgraded (e.g. CSF) radiator, you shouldn't need to run an extra Setrab core out front except perhaps in the most extreme of conditions (long races in the desert? I donno).

I don't disagree that a liquid to liquid cooler is ineffecient, but in the instance of engine coolant cooling down oil during a tracking condition or a canyon run is where my point is. I completely agree if you have a liquid to oil cooler where the liquid is a cooler temp than anything else.

06-01-2012, 03:24 AM	#10 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7252	to "tap"the 2012 cooler you would have to stack the sandwich plates as the only lines going to the oem unit are coolant. don't know if there is enough room for that and you would need a longer filter pipe that can go through both. and roy'sz it would makes sense because while the coolant and oil temps would cross idealy u want the oil to be 200-220 which is engine coolant temp. the air cooler is to keep it from going over that for track use. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

06-01-2012, 03:32 AM	#11 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7252	to "tap"the 2012 cooler you would have to stack the sandwich plates as the only lines going to the oem unit are coolant. don't know if there is enough room for that and you would need a longer filter pipe that can go through both. and roy'sz it would makes sense because while the coolant and oil temps would cross idealy u want the oil to be 200-220 which is engine coolant temp. the air cooler is to keep it from going over that for track use. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

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05-30-2012, 12:07 PM	#2 (permalink)
roy'sz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: palmdale, ca Posts: 1,299 Drives: 2010 nissan 370z Rep Power: 17	I use exactly 5qts of oil and it puts me right at the high dot on my dipstick, and I too have a little bit of oil consumption. The service manager told me that it was normal

05-31-2012, 12:23 PM	#4 (permalink)
roy'sz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: palmdale, ca Posts: 1,299 Drives: 2010 nissan 370z Rep Power: 17	which I might add is not nearly as effecient as the air to oil cooler. The warmer your oil gets the warmer the coolant gets and vice versa. I was extremely disappointed when I saw that nissan did this. They should have done it the right way.

05-31-2012, 12:39 PM	#5 (permalink)
phohman Base Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Katy-Houston Tx. Age: 63 Posts: 124 Drives: 2012 370Z Nismo Rep Power: 16	So if I were to install My Z1 cooler, would it be better to tap in to the oil circuit and have both cooler's or remove the OE one. If it is water cooled then it is also warmed quicker in the winter right?

06-01-2012, 12:32 PM	#12 (permalink)
roy'sz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: palmdale, ca Posts: 1,299 Drives: 2010 nissan 370z Rep Power: 17	lol that definitely would not work. Your coolant temp would increase when running your car hard because your oil temp is increasing. Just because you have 2 coolers doesn't mean you will effeciently cool the car off. the guage reads the oil temp before it flows through the engine. If you are tracking your car yes you do want the oil between 200-220, and thats where my z runs with my 34row cooler. Please explain how you would think that having a) your engine oil as a heat source and b) cross flowing it with your coolant, which is also another heat source...and with both radiating off of eachother adding another cooler would help you maintain a 200-220 temp when pushing the car to its designed limits? I really honestly don't see it but would love to see how it could "Possibly" work.