[OFFICIAL] Manual v. Automatic Thread

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by cofo11

The fact that you came so close to hitting the nail on the head despite your derision and changing from boutique cars to a mass produced econo box to attempt to justify your failed premise is comical.

The part that your Z does not have is a clutch. The part that the cars you listed do not have is a torque converter. Many, like myself, do not mind paddles when they are mated to a properly clutched transmission. A torque converter is not a clutch. That in itself makes it laughable when the "well the GTR has paddle shifters" argument is made. It shows ignorance as to what each car's transmission is comprised of.

I have no issue with ATs other than I dislike the feel and drawbacks of a torque converter. If that's what you want to drive then that's your perogative and that's great. Just quit making factually incorrect justifications as to why you do.

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Okay... so your problem is the presence or absence of a torque converter.

Fine.

Question: Given the following two options, would you prefer a clunky or slow-shifting non-torque converter equipped car or a fast-shifting torque converter equipped car? (we'll leave the shifter and 3rd pedal out of this).

Your answer will address my point that this is all about perceived "manual-ness", not performance, not design.

And here's the thing -- you and I (and I guess FERRARI), at least, are NOT debating preference, but rather pretending to do so.

You and he are telling us -- maybe very seriously, maybe not -- that a TRUE, PURE, PROPER sports car will not have a torque converter involved in the mix in any way, shape, or form.

This raises some questions about, say, V8 Jaguar F-types (I think they introduced a standard for the latest V6's that have gotten mixed reviews...).

Anyway, unless I'm missing your point, you are saying that the presence or absence of a torque converter trumps all other design and performance issues in terms of a car's pure sportiness.

If someone feels that way, then essentially that person is saying preference is irrelevant to the matter at hand, which is how does one define a sports car.

Look at this way: There's many, many different sects of various religions -- say, for, example the many different Christian faiths.

A Unitarian or agnostic approach might involve seeing equal merit (or lack thereof) in any given form of spirituality, taking the position that no one knows which religious secular view (or even if any faith) is "right".

However, you are nailing the 95 Thesis to my torque converter. You are telling Pope torque converter you want an annulment. You are telling me that a torque converter is wrong.

You are telling people "chocolate is better than vanilla" -- period, end of story, not "to each their own".

Simply saying, "sure, everyone is entitled to their perceptions on this issue" is very different from saying "everyone's perceptions on this issue are of defensibly equal value and accuracy".

In short, if you feel strongly that there is a "correct" and "incorrect" answer to the question of "What constitutes a proper sports car's transmission", then at best you are agreeing to disagree.