Nissan 370Z Forum  

Car will not start after tuning

Greeting Pals, Recently tuned the Z with a custom tune (remote tune). Car was in the garage. I started it up and drove it out to the yard so I

Go Back   Nissan 370Z Forum > Nissan 370Z Tech Area > Engine & Drivetrain


Like Tree20Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-10-2021, 05:36 PM   #1 (permalink)
Base Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 23
Drives: '13 370z NISMO - MT
Rep Power: 9
ShadowJester6 is on a distinguished road
Default Car will not start after tuning

Greeting Pals,

Recently tuned the Z with a custom tune (remote tune). Car was in the garage. I started it up and drove it out to the yard so I could sit in the sun while I got the ECU flashed. Tuning process was superb and tune was flashed onto the ECU with no issue. All was right in the world until I went to start the car and get ready for some data logging fun. But alas, car did not start. Did not even try to turn over. Nothing. Welp, that's no good. Contacted tuner and we went over some troubleshooting. We went back and forth between custom tune, original OEM tune, older version OEM tune, and custom tune with NATS disabled. No change. Every time the start button is pressed, car will flip past "acc" to "on" as normal. But starter doesn't crank. Car just remains in "on". So tune doesn't seem to be the issue. Below are more troubleshooting steps I've taken with no joy:

1. Battery in FOB was fine, but replaced anyways. Tried starting with FOB in and out of the key port. No luck.
2. Car battery was on a tender the whole time during the tuning process. Voltage was fine with and without tender. Replaced battery anyways. I also left the battery disconnected a few times, including overnight, in case a relay or something was hung up. No luck.
3. Looked into the wheel lock problem that was a big deal with the older 370s. I have a '13 NISMO. They apparently stopped putting the ESCL modules in the cars around '11. Verified the module was not under the steering column. Verified the fuse was non-existent in the IPDM E/R fuse box. No luck.
4. Toyed with the clutch interlock switch (neutral safety switch). Tested the switch with a meter; open when disengaged and nearly no resistance when engaged. Test SAT. Looked at the switch in the tuning software. It toggles open and closed appropriately according to ECU. For science, I also tried starting the car with the switch disconnected and the harness side connector shorted out. I also tried combinations of the switch used normally and the switch shorted while disconnecting the cruise control switch at the top of the clutch. More than enough evidence that both switches appears operational. No luck.
5. Verified that the starter control relay was good with a meter. Relay audibly closes when start button is pressed. For science, I replaced the starter control relay. No luck.
6. Used a meter and tested every single fuse and relay I could get my hands on. Not a single component was faulty.
7. Tuner was kind enough to send me another ECU even though mine shows no signs of not being operational. New ECU, same issue. No luck.
8. Followed the FSM flow chart for failure to start. All tests were SAT (even with old battery). Resorted to the tried and true method of giving the starter a few wallops in the event that it was seized up. No go. Removed the starter and took to auto parts store for testing. All tests SAT. No luck.

I'm at a loss about what else I can try. If I follow the the system diagram for the starting system, I have have eliminated all but two (really three) options:

1. The starter relay, not to be confused with the starter control relay, appears to be integrated into the IPDM E/R fuse box. That would be a real drag to swap out that whole thing. But options are running thin.
2. The BCM. Apparently it's in the cabin next to the fuse panel under the driver's side kick plate. Also lame if I need to start toying with that thing.
3. After those two options, the entirety of the start system will allegedly be tested/fixed/replaced. Although highly unlikely, the wiring harness itself may somehow just gave up on life.

After tuning these are the DTCs that I have been able to pull:

1. Using the tuning app/OBD dongle, I have a HVAC2 "U1000-00" (appears to be CAN lost communication) code after flashing ECU. Code returns after clearing.
2. Using the tuning app/ OBD dongle, I have a BCM "B26E8-00" (appears to be clutch interlock switch) code after flashing ECU. Code can be cleared and stays cleared.
3. Using a generic app/different OBD dongle, I have a permanent U1024 (also appears to be CAN comm circuit/VVEL related) code after flashing the ECU. Permanent code cannot be cleared.

Although it does point at a generic wiring harness fault, I don't believe that the harness suddenly got disconnected and/or broken somewhere at precisely the same time I first flashed the ECU. If that was the case, it would also be unlikely that I could continue with more flashes and complete all the tests I have with no errors or more DTCs.

So that's where I am with my very fancy and very expensive paperweight. I was hoping that one of you might be able to chime in with something that I may have tested wrong or another component that may be at fault. I will totally bribe anyone that can help me find a solution for this car with a burrito. Thanks in advance for anyone that can provide any advice or insight.
ShadowJester6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2021, 08:16 PM   #2 (permalink)
Ronin Samurai - Assassin
 
Rusty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Fayettenam,Pennsyltucky
Age: 68
Posts: 34,813
Drives: 2011 Nismo GM 6M
Rep Power: 2684436
Rusty has a reputation beyond reputeRusty has a reputation beyond reputeRusty has a reputation beyond reputeRusty has a reputation beyond reputeRusty has a reputation beyond reputeRusty has a reputation beyond reputeRusty has a reputation beyond reputeRusty has a reputation beyond reputeRusty has a reputation beyond reputeRusty has a reputation beyond reputeRusty has a reputation beyond repute
Talking

Who's doing the remote tuning?
__________________

浪人 - 殺し屋
"The Difficult Anytime, The Impossible By Appointment Only"
http://www.the370z.com/members-370z-...o-journal.html
Rusty is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2021, 08:37 PM   #3 (permalink)
Base Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 23
Drives: '13 370z NISMO - MT
Rep Power: 9
ShadowJester6 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
Who's doing the remote tuning?
I had refrained from saying before on purpose. I'm not looking to point any fingers. I will say that the tuner has been very helpful with trying to find the issue. Seems to be a problem that they have never ran into before though. Until the actual issue is found, it's hard to even say if it tune related or a freak occurrence at the most inconvenient time imaginable.
ShadowJester6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2021, 05:47 AM   #4 (permalink)
Track Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Columbus OH
Posts: 612
Drives: Z34|C4LT4|C6Z06|V25
Rep Power: 3365
POS VETT has a reputation beyond reputePOS VETT has a reputation beyond reputePOS VETT has a reputation beyond reputePOS VETT has a reputation beyond reputePOS VETT has a reputation beyond reputePOS VETT has a reputation beyond reputePOS VETT has a reputation beyond reputePOS VETT has a reputation beyond reputePOS VETT has a reputation beyond reputePOS VETT has a reputation beyond reputePOS VETT has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Does the engine fire up when push started?
POS VETT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2021, 11:06 AM   #5 (permalink)
Base Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Ontario
Posts: 230
Drives: G37 Sport
Rep Power: 6720
SonicVQ has a reputation beyond reputeSonicVQ has a reputation beyond reputeSonicVQ has a reputation beyond reputeSonicVQ has a reputation beyond reputeSonicVQ has a reputation beyond reputeSonicVQ has a reputation beyond reputeSonicVQ has a reputation beyond reputeSonicVQ has a reputation beyond reputeSonicVQ has a reputation beyond reputeSonicVQ has a reputation beyond reputeSonicVQ has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Excellent troubleshooting! What an unusual issue.

UpRev or EcuTek?
What is your ECUID?
Did the replacement ECU have the stock programming?

I have seen that in some cases when the ECU is very busy (like uploading a tune) it can create false CAN bus faults. This is because the ECU doesn't have the time to send the normal "heart beats" to the various modules. These are resolved once the ECU is back to normal operation and the vehicle is driven a few times (drive cycles) BUT you can't do that...

If the starter relay is being activated, it isn't a NATS issue...
I assume the "red key" dash light is not on. (verifing it isn't a NATS issue)

I have seen a few cases where the starter wire connection is corroded (between copper lug and copper washers) and it arcs when starting, creating a poor electrical connection. 80 grit sandpaper fixes it.

I know you had the starter tested, but have you tested for 12v at the thin starter cable when someone pushes the start button and do you have a constant 12 volts at the thick starter cable?

Also, look into the B26E8 / clutch interlock switch - that might stop the car from starting if it thinks the clutch is not pressed.
I think you can use a wire and jump the 2 connections in the clutch switch connector to ensure the BCM thinks the clutch is pressed.

Good luck!
SouthArk370Z, JARblue and Rusty like this.

Last edited by SonicVQ; 04-11-2021 at 11:22 AM.
SonicVQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2021, 02:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
Base Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 23
Drives: '13 370z NISMO - MT
Rep Power: 9
ShadowJester6 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by POS VETT View Post
Does the engine fire up when push started?
Did try to push start it with some pals. Couldn't get enough of a run to start it. Hard to say whether it would have been effective if the car had been able to be pushed faster. As the test was unreliable, I hadn't included it in the original post.
ShadowJester6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2021, 02:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
Base Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 23
Drives: '13 370z NISMO - MT
Rep Power: 9
ShadowJester6 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicVQ View Post
Excellent troubleshooting! What an unusual issue.

UpRev or EcuTek?
What is your ECUID?
Did the replacement ECU have the stock programming?

I have seen that in some cases when the ECU is very busy (like uploading a tune) it can create false CAN bus faults. This is because the ECU doesn't have the time to send the normal "heart beats" to the various modules. These are resolved once the ECU is back to normal operation and the vehicle is driven a few times (drive cycles) BUT you can't do that...

If the starter relay is being activated, it isn't a NATS issue...
I assume the "red key" dash light is not on. (verifing it isn't a NATS issue)

I have seen a few cases where the starter wire connection is corroded (between copper lug and copper washers) and it arcs when starting, creating a poor electrical connection. 80 grit sandpaper fixes it.

I know you had the starter tested, but have you tested for 12v at the thin starter cable when someone pushes the start button and do you have a constant 12 volts at the thick starter cable?

Also, look into the B26E8 / clutch interlock switch - that might stop the car from starting if it thinks the clutch is not pressed.
I think you can use a wire and jump the 2 connections in the clutch switch connector to ensure the BCM thinks the clutch is pressed.

Good luck!
Thanks for the advice.
If it's what I think it is, ECUID appears to be 3GY2D. Also flashed 3GY2B. The replacement ECU was pre-flashed with the custom tune.
The tuner also agreed that the DTCs likely weren't a big deal.
I can also confirm that I have gotten no red key lights.
I did clean the starter when it was out. Normal grim was as expected. Electrical connection was flawless though. Gave it a dab of dielectric grease before putting it back in.
I have confirmed that the normal voltages and voltage drops are present at the cable going to the starter as listed in the FSM. I haven't been able to test the smaller cable going to the solenoid on the starter yet. My guess that with a operational starter and 12V at the starter, there's going to be no signal at the smaller cable or the car would be turning over. I will report findings though.
The clutch interlock was what I had tested as noted above, including shorting out the connector. I appears that I was a incorrect and also referring to it as the neutral safety switch. It appears that the neutral safety switch is at the rear of the trans and seems simple enough to check even though it is not listed as part of the start circuit. I'll be giving that a test along with the smaller starter control cable later today.
ShadowJester6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2021, 03:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
JARblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 43
Posts: 36,449
Drives: 11 Z34, 98 E36 M3
Rep Power: 2684440
JARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond reputeJARblue has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I won't place any blame but I still want to know the tuner lol. Unfortunately, I also understand there are social media platforms where any negative information (whether true or not) impacts business and reputation.

GL on the repairs
__________________

2011 370Z 6MT Sport Gun Metallic | ARC | CJM | Ecutek | FI | Fujimura | R2C | SPL | Stillen | TWM | Z1 | ZSpeed |
JARblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2021, 05:09 PM   #9 (permalink)
Base Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 92
Drives: 2010 370z 6MT
Rep Power: 5
NissanZ34 is on a distinguished road
Default

You need to know if it will start by jump start. Can you get a friend with a pickup that can pull you, drive at about 20 mph and then you dump the clutch in 2nd gear?
NissanZ34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2021, 05:18 PM   #10 (permalink)
Premium Member
 
SouthArk370Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: South Arkansas
Posts: 8,435
Drives: 2014 Challenger
Rep Power: 324197
SouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond reputeSouthArk370Z has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Back when I worked for a living, when something started malfunctioning after being worked on, we always started with the things that had changed during the repairs. You say you worked on the starter motor and wiring - I'd start there and double-/triple-check everything.
__________________
Steering Lock Links - Search The370Z Bookmarklet - FSM @ NICOclub
Mankind has progressed past the need for war but we haven't evolved that far. - NachoMahma
SouthArk370Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2021, 05:29 PM   #11 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
JLarson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Media, PA
Posts: 4,074
Drives: 14 Nissan 370z MR M6
Rep Power: 2684369
JLarson has a reputation beyond reputeJLarson has a reputation beyond reputeJLarson has a reputation beyond reputeJLarson has a reputation beyond reputeJLarson has a reputation beyond reputeJLarson has a reputation beyond reputeJLarson has a reputation beyond reputeJLarson has a reputation beyond reputeJLarson has a reputation beyond reputeJLarson has a reputation beyond reputeJLarson has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Random but have you checked the limiter switches on the clutch pedal?
SouthArk370Z likes this.
__________________
2014 370z Touring Sport Magma Red MT // BP Single Turbo 6467 // 63mm TB's // Z1 Ported Upper Mani // RJM Pedal // Zspeed Stage 3 Clutch // 526 WHP, 451 WTQ
2006 350z (Sold) // 1990 300zx (Sold) // 1985 300zx 2+2 (Sold)
JLarson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2021, 03:29 PM   #12 (permalink)
Base Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 23
Drives: '13 370z NISMO - MT
Rep Power: 9
ShadowJester6 is on a distinguished road
Default

Forgot to post my promised update.

Gave the the neutral safety switch a test even though it should have nothing to do with starting the car. Switch tested SAT.
I tested for the 12V signal going to the smaller start control cable that tells it when to turn over. As expected, no go. Tested the run from the starter connector back to the IPDM E/R fuse box as well. All good there so that part of the wiring didn't magically break.

I have a secondhand fuse box on the way to give that a try. If that's not it, it's down to the BCM and the wire loom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLarson View Post
Random but have you checked the limiter switches on the clutch pedal?
I don't know anything about them. Care to educate me?
ShadowJester6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2021, 03:47 PM   #13 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
redondoaveb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: So. Commiefornia
Posts: 6,290
Drives: 2014 Nismo Gunmetal
Rep Power: 2684373
redondoaveb has a reputation beyond reputeredondoaveb has a reputation beyond reputeredondoaveb has a reputation beyond reputeredondoaveb has a reputation beyond reputeredondoaveb has a reputation beyond reputeredondoaveb has a reputation beyond reputeredondoaveb has a reputation beyond reputeredondoaveb has a reputation beyond reputeredondoaveb has a reputation beyond reputeredondoaveb has a reputation beyond reputeredondoaveb has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowJester6 View Post
Forgot to post my promised update.

Gave the the neutral safety switch a test even though it should have nothing to do with starting the car. Switch tested SAT.
I tested for the 12V signal going to the smaller start control cable that tells it when to turn over. As expected, no go. Tested the run from the starter connector back to the IPDM E/R fuse box as well. All good there so that part of the wiring didn't magically break.

I have a secondhand fuse box on the way to give that a try. If that's not it, it's down to the BCM and the wire loom.



I don't know anything about them. Care to educate me?
There's 2 of them. If they're out of adjustment, the car won't start. Sometimes the lock nuts come loose.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Screenshot_20210413-134412_Google.jpg (585.2 KB, 31 views)
Rusty likes this.
__________________
Fast Intentions "Stage Seb" twin turbo #098- Specialty Z/Tial-Xonarotor/CJM/Ecutek/HKS/KW/SPL/Hotchkis/Rohana/Toyo
700+whp
redondoaveb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2021, 04:25 PM   #14 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ga
Posts: 13,467
Drives: 2013 Nismo 370z
Rep Power: 2684390
Spooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond reputeSpooler has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redondoaveb View Post
There's 2 of them. If they're out of adjustment, the car won't start. Sometimes the lock nuts come loose.
Yeap, mine is out of adjustment a touch. Every now and then I will get a no start. I just slam the clutch pedal down and it does the trick for now. My neck is giving me chit and I can't get under their to check the adjustment.
Rusty likes this.
Spooler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2021, 04:28 PM   #15 (permalink)
A True Z Fanatic
 
redondoaveb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: So. Commiefornia
Posts: 6,290
Drives: 2014 Nismo Gunmetal
Rep Power: 2684373
redondoaveb has a reputation beyond reputeredondoaveb has a reputation beyond reputeredondoaveb has a reputation beyond reputeredondoaveb has a reputation beyond reputeredondoaveb has a reputation beyond reputeredondoaveb has a reputation beyond reputeredondoaveb has a reputation beyond reputeredondoaveb has a reputation beyond reputeredondoaveb has a reputation beyond reputeredondoaveb has a reputation beyond reputeredondoaveb has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooler View Post
Yeap, mine is out of adjustment a touch. Every now and then I will get a no start. I just slam the clutch pedal down and it does the trick for now. My neck is giving me chit and I can't get under their to check the adjustment.
It's a b1tch getting down there and even getting a wrench on the locknuts.
Rusty likes this.
__________________
Fast Intentions "Stage Seb" twin turbo #098- Specialty Z/Tial-Xonarotor/CJM/Ecutek/HKS/KW/SPL/Hotchkis/Rohana/Toyo
700+whp
redondoaveb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Upgrades - Admin Tuning 3'' Intakes, EPS Tuning BB TB's, AAM Comp Intake Manifold 1cintron Intake/Exhaust 20 10-20-2018 10:57 AM
Fall Uprev Tuning Special at R/T Tuning R/T Tuning R/T Tuning 24 11-24-2014 03:13 PM
Fall Uprev Tuning Special at R/T Tuning R/T Tuning North East Region 15 11-21-2014 11:40 AM
Visconti Tuning heading to Toledo, Ohio for EcuTek Tuning ! visconti Mid Western Region 0 04-28-2013 10:41 PM
Black Friday Tuning Tuning Specials at R/T Tuning Erik@RTTuning Drivetrain/Engine 0 11-23-2012 01:46 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2