Pushing past 9k rpms! Wet sump solution...

Elmo370z · 05-10-2015, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Shamu hit that mark on a built 4.0 on E85, but it was a full race motor. Not something you could run on the street. 1Slow was fairly convinced he's need to open up the block to push his setup any farther than he already had.

Driver may have a lot to do with it, but all things being equal, the car with 50-100 extra foot pounds of torque is the faster car.

Last I checked, CJM was working on a manifold that would really only be a benefit for the boosted guys. From his own thread, he didn't expect a huge jump in power on a NA motor. And GTM will never be a viable source for anything as long as Sam is running the show.

There's just not enough people who mod 370s to justify something like this from a R&D standpoint. There's not enough of a market for it to be a good use of resources as a vendor. Unless you jump in there yourself and figure it out as you go, you'll end up waiting a long time for someone to blaze a trail for you.

Can't aruge with you. You do have a valid point. I just hope it makes decent gains because i plan on following 1slowz route. Just will take me a little longer to do it. Once i do purchases the cam i'll ask to fly him out to install the cam.

SurfDog · 05-15-2015, 11:17 AM

I just spoke with Sam at GTM (easy now... Easy). He says they are moving and therefore won't have anything ready for about 2 weeks but he'll get back to me then. I'm VERY interested in this solution so I'll keep posting about my journey to delivery with GTM. Wish me luck.

Elmo370z · 05-15-2015, 12:45 PM

Interesting

Elmo370z · 05-15-2015, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

Seriously? A few GTM teaser pics and "we've come so far"? There's still the same number of NA 400whp Zs out there since you first started talking about doing this. 1- Shamu's old car. IIRC, that's a built 4.0 with a bunch of other goodies that probably cost as much for the motor as it did for the Z to put it in. 1Slow spent a mint to hit ~375whp.

A 400whp NA Z is for bragging rights only. It will get smoked by a FI Z at the same hp level in a straight line and coming out of a corner. If you're down with spending 2x the money for the same hp and much less torque, go for it. It's a cool project from an engineering standpoint, but the end result may be pretty underwhelming out in the real world.

For phunk's manifold I'm just hoping it will make better gains than the existing manifold's that are out now, especially in top end power. I wonder in conjunction with jun cam and larger TB's and a higher redline how much more power could his manifold produce. I think the manifold will be limited to the cars being tested.

bullitt5897 · 05-16-2015, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurfDog

I just spoke with Sam at GTM (easy now... Easy). He says they are moving and therefore won't have anything ready for about 2 weeks but he'll get back to me then. I'm VERY interested in this solution so I'll keep posting about my journey to delivery with GTM. Wish me luck.

Just to clarify. They have already moved into the new shop. However like any time you move all your chit is packed up in boxes and takes time to sort out and arrange in your place.

There was talk from his investors about moving them into a more of a manufacturing location but until I get confirmation it's only speculation. Right now they are in a much smaller shop with enough room for a few lifts, their inventory, a dyno and a few offices. There isn't room for much else.

Mike

Glover997 · 05-16-2015, 11:21 PM

^ I always wanted to visit GTM's shop .. Despite the issues people been thro with them, i still look at them as VQ's devils lol. Fella gotta appreciate their work for all these years at least ! ... Thank you GTM

1slow370 · 05-17-2015, 01:19 PM

Hey cool its the pan i designed. I hope it comes to completion. The advantage of wet over dry is its waaaaay cheaper my drysump was almost $8k and the daileys one is 6k for just the pump/pan plus 3k in the rest of the system. Also the pump on a wet sump is alot smaller so you can keep your ac. The downside of the wet sump is no engine vaccumm and you are more likely to starve the motor than a drysump system. This kit would be perfect for guys on a limited budget that have things like a better manifold

and want to take advantage of the power betond 8krpm as going to an external pump means that instead of spinning the oil pump at crank rpm you can pulley it down to 30-70% less.

Elmo370z · 05-17-2015, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

Hey cool its the pan i designed. I hope it comes to completion. The advantage of wet over dry is its waaaaay cheaper my drysump was almost $8k and the daileys one is 6k for just the pump/pan plus 3k in the rest of the system. Also the pump on a wet sump is alot smaller so you can keep your ac. The downside of the wet sump is no engine vaccumm and you are more likely to starve the motor than a drysump system. This kit would be perfect for guys on a limited budget that have things like a better manifold

and want to take advantage of the power betond 8krpm as going to an external pump means that instead of spinning the oil pump at crank rpm you can pulley it down to 30-70% less.

The NA wizard speaks. 9k for Dailey's system, FUQ!!!!. That's a fast intentions kit or bp with a free extra dollars to spend. So your saying this kit will be around civic turbo kits prices 3-4 grand?, to rev to 9k?

08NismoZ · 05-17-2015, 11:11 PM

Off topic but it was nice meeting you Saturday night Bullitt. Your car is awesome man

1slow370 · 05-18-2015, 03:05 AM

Who knows how much they will end up charging for it. Realistically to go past 9000k rpm and not 8000 you are going to need a lot of work. The oil pump is a part of it but i can see the springs running out past 8500. You also need a minimum of an ati damper properly tuned, new rods(at least rod bolts) a full dynamic rotating assembly balancing, some form of external oil pump, jun stage2 exhaust cams, and manifolds that can actually support. That kindof flow. The guy who bought my old car would only have to put a few thousand more in to get to 9000rpm and 400+ wheel hp. He is dropping it off these week for an oil change and a few more things. Pretty sure he is slowly turning it into a track toy. I am hoping that someday somebody will give me the chance to doa couple of the builds i have planned out. A 7-800whp Supercharger kit, a standalone ecu race car vhr na build, not to mention completing my current project '74-'04 400zx. I have gone away but im not out of the game lol.

Elmo370z · 05-18-2015, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

Who knows how much they will end up charging for it. Realistically to go past 9000k rpm and not 8000 you are going to need a lot of work. The oil pump is a part of it but i can see the springs running out past 8500. You also need a minimum of an ati damper properly tuned, new rods(at least rod bolts) a full dynamic rotating assembly balancing, some form of external oil pump, jun stage2 exhaust cams, and manifolds that can actually support. That kindof flow. The guy who bought my old car would only have to put a few thousand more in to get to 9000rpm and 400+ wheel hp. He is dropping it off these week for an oil change and a few more things. Pretty sure he is slowly turning it into a track toy. I am hoping that someday somebody will give me the chance to doa couple of the builds i have planned out. A 7-800whp Supercharger kit, a standalone ecu race car vhr na build, not to mention completing my current project '74-'04 400zx. I have gone away but im not out of the game lol.

As far a dry sumps go, what about removing the battery to the back, and fitting a custom tank where the battery goes? Someone on here roughly said you could get a 8 quart tank in that space, maybe a 10. So 8,500 rpm is that cap for a stock block VHR block before things start breaking? **** I give you shot of helping me build a badass NA Z. Whenever I get to the point of installing a jun cam I was going to contact you to see if there is anyway I could get you out to Florida to install the cam.

Elmo370z · 05-18-2015, 09:27 AM

Another question. I'm waiting for cj motorsports manifold to come and was considering getting a jun cam and getting it installed while the manifold is off. I know that you said the cam doesn't really start producing power until 8,000 rpms, but for the sake of not having to take all the parts off again when I'm ready to install the cam.

Elmo370z · 05-18-2015, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1slow370

Who knows how much they will end up charging for it. Realistically to go past 9000k rpm and not 8000 you are going to need a lot of work. The oil pump is a part of it but i can see the springs running out past 8500. You also need a minimum of an ati damper properly tuned, new rods(at least rod bolts) a full dynamic rotating assembly balancing, some form of external oil pump, jun stage2 exhaust cams, and manifolds that can actually support. That kindof flow. The guy who bought my old car would only have to put a few thousand more in to get to 9000rpm and 400+ wheel hp. He is dropping it off these week for an oil change and a few more things. Pretty sure he is slowly turning it into a track toy. I am hoping that someday somebody will give me the chance to doa couple of the builds i have planned out. A 7-800whp Supercharger kit, a standalone ecu race car vhr na build, not to mention completing my current project '74-'04 400zx. I have gone away but im not out of the game lol.

Another question could you in box me your tilton master cylinder set up?

1slow370 · 05-20-2015, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmo370z

As far a dry sumps go, what about removing the battery to the back, and fitting a custom tank where the battery goes? Someone on here roughly said you could get a 8 quart tank in that space, maybe a 10. So 8,500 rpm is that cap for a stock block VHR block before things start breaking? **** I give you shot of helping me build a badass NA Z. Whenever I get to the point of installing a jun cam I was going to contact you to see if there is anyway I could get you out to Florida to install the cam.

the height of the tank is important. the flower pot tanks only work on drag cars, the taller the tank the harder it is for oil to slosh away from the hose in the bottom of the tank. also you need a tank TWICE the size of the volume of oil you are going to run. so an 8 quart tank is only good for a 4 quart system. On a dry sump you check the oil level with the car running and hot to make sure the oil is at its max level in the tank and it should be halfway up a tall tank. if the oil level gets higher then that you will not have enough room to separate the air from the oil as it makes its way down and you will have problems with oil coming out the breather line on the tank. unlike the corvette our cars do not have a 20+ inch deep hole under the battery, its just a wheel.

As for the jun cams do it just don't get the stage ones they are better for FI cars.

1slow370 · 05-20-2015, 09:01 PM

also if you are in there and you want to rpm remember you need to pull the front apart to remove the OE oil pump for running an external pump. of course the car won't be able to run until ou get the pump and pan so it looks like you will be cracking her open twice anyway. Also BMW m5 v8 arp conrod bolts can be used instead of oems and with a dynamic balancing and an ati damper (you need for the oil pump drive) you will be ready to go.

05-15-2015, 11:17 AM	#47 (permalink)
SurfDog A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2012 Location: Colorado (9000 feet) Age: 56 Posts: 1,793 Drives: 09 6mt, 13 Sequoia, Rep Power: 15748	I just spoke with Sam at GTM (easy now... Easy). He says they are moving and therefore won't have anything ready for about 2 weeks but he'll get back to me then. I'm VERY interested in this solution so I'll keep posting about my journey to delivery with GTM. Wish me luck. bullitt5897 likes this. __________________ 09 6spd Berk CBE, JWT cams, ZSpeed CSC, Stillen (25 row oil, brake cooling, sways, gen3 CAI), Passport (9500ci), Quaife LSD, Z1 400 hp kit, ss lines, pads, rotors, clutch etc, Phunk's pan and fuel starve fix

05-16-2015, 11:21 PM	#51 (permalink)
Glover997 Base Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Oman. Posts: 71 Drives: 08 infiniti G35 AT Rep Power: 13	^ I always wanted to visit GTM's shop .. Despite the issues people been thro with them, i still look at them as VQ's devils lol. Fella gotta appreciate their work for all these years at least ! ... Thank you GTM __________________ Brian Crower 4.0 stroked 08 G35 sedan.

05-17-2015, 01:19 PM	#52 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7250	Hey cool its the pan i designed. I hope it comes to completion. The advantage of wet over dry is its waaaaay cheaper my drysump was almost $8k and the daileys one is 6k for just the pump/pan plus 3k in the rest of the system. Also the pump on a wet sump is alot smaller so you can keep your ac. The downside of the wet sump is no engine vaccumm and you are more likely to starve the motor than a drysump system. This kit would be perfect for guys on a limited budget that have things like a better manifold and want to take advantage of the power betond 8krpm as going to an external pump means that instead of spinning the oil pump at crank rpm you can pulley it down to 30-70% less. DIGItonium likes this. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

05-18-2015, 03:05 AM	#55 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7250	Who knows how much they will end up charging for it. Realistically to go past 9000k rpm and not 8000 you are going to need a lot of work. The oil pump is a part of it but i can see the springs running out past 8500. You also need a minimum of an ati damper properly tuned, new rods(at least rod bolts) a full dynamic rotating assembly balancing, some form of external oil pump, jun stage2 exhaust cams, and manifolds that can actually support. That kindof flow. The guy who bought my old car would only have to put a few thousand more in to get to 9000rpm and 400+ wheel hp. He is dropping it off these week for an oil change and a few more things. Pretty sure he is slowly turning it into a track toy. I am hoping that someday somebody will give me the chance to doa couple of the builds i have planned out. A 7-800whp Supercharger kit, a standalone ecu race car vhr na build, not to mention completing my current project '74-'04 400zx. I have gone away but im not out of the game lol. BGTV8, JARblue and GaleForce like this. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

05-20-2015, 09:01 PM	#60 (permalink)
1slow370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: In the D Posts: 3,732 Drives: v8 74 260z ;) Rep Power: 7250	also if you are in there and you want to rpm remember you need to pull the front apart to remove the OE oil pump for running an external pump. of course the car won't be able to run until ou get the pump and pan so it looks like you will be cracking her open twice anyway. Also BMW m5 v8 arp conrod bolts can be used instead of oems and with a dynamic balancing and an ati damper (you need for the oil pump drive) you will be ready to go. __________________ ANSWER PRICE LIST Answers - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $0.75 Answers (requiring thought) - - - - $1.25 Answers (correct) - - - - - - - - - - $12.50

05-15-2015, 12:45 PM	#48 (permalink)
Elmo370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: st. petersburg Posts: 5,707 Drives: 09 nissan 370z Sp M6 Rep Power: 295378	Interesting

05-17-2015, 11:11 PM	#54 (permalink)
08NismoZ Base Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Indy Posts: 29 Drives: 08Z, 09 GTR, 11Z Rep Power: 10	Off topic but it was nice meeting you Saturday night Bullitt. Your car is awesome man

05-18-2015, 09:27 AM	#57 (permalink)
Elmo370z A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: st. petersburg Posts: 5,707 Drives: 09 nissan 370z Sp M6 Rep Power: 295378	Another question. I'm waiting for cj motorsports manifold to come and was considering getting a jun cam and getting it installed while the manifold is off. I know that you said the cam doesn't really start producing power until 8,000 rpms, but for the sake of not having to take all the parts off again when I'm ready to install the cam.

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