Carbotech Brake Pads Installed, WOW and an interesting finding.

cossie1600 · 03-30-2010, 09:58 AM

r888 are garbage in my opinion. i had it on a rx8 and c6. my 350 with ra1 shows higher cornering speed than the other two cars on r8888

RCZ · 03-30-2010, 10:24 AM

R888 may not be the grippiest thing in the world, but they certainly last longer than most racing tires. Also...I don't know that having slightly lower corner speeds means they are garbage... they just have slightly lower corner speeds because they are meant to last longer.

cossie1600 · 03-30-2010, 11:04 AM

i had used 3 sets of those tires on two different cars. i honestly dont feel them lasting longer or provide more grip than even my shaved ra1s. i absolutely cant stand those tires, and i am not the only one as the ra1 s are coming back. i have some datalogs and results that can backup my claim too. on a 3.5 miles course, my half worn r888 was only one sec faster than my d1 star spec, its sad. go with the r1s

RCZ · 03-30-2010, 11:28 AM

Hmm yeah, but I have other folks who swear by the R888s who I know track their cars a lot too. Its all good, and I will take your opinion into account.

sig11 · 04-02-2010, 08:19 AM

I'm really glad to read this, spearfish. I'm going to put my pads on today after I borrow a torque wrench from my brother in law. I was a little worried about cold performance despite what I had been reading... so a direct review like this is pretty awesome.

Ryan@IP · 04-02-2010, 09:02 AM

Glad to hear that the Carbotech love is spreading

They know how to make a great pad for sure. I did not see what type of street tires you were using from your original post, but I can confirm that you very likely have too much pad for the street on the tires you are using. My experience has shown that XP8's work best with true street tires (like the RE11 or Dunlop Star Specs) and the compound should be increased as the tire grip is increasing as well. Especially once on track, you will find that your XP10's up front will work very well with R888's or NT01's. Even with street tires though, a car like the 370Z could still use the XP10's for the front on track.

ChrisSlicks · 04-02-2010, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spearfish25

You sure did

Absolutely amazing pads. I don't want to take them off now.

As for ice mode...I read through those other threads a few days back which is why I'm curious if what I experienced is 'it'. The strange thing is that I could reproduce this every single time I hammered the brake pedal (other said it happened very sporadically). It would stop like a beast if I stayed out of ABS, but a few seconds of ABS turned into that glazed sliding feeling with no stopping. If this is really the ice mode, then the Z just doesn't tolerate prolonged, heavy ABS activation. I suppose one can threshold brake, treating ABS activation like wheel lockup in a non-ABS car. Scary schiesse though...I better not have that happen on the track!

I think what is happening is that the ABS is having a hard time modulating the brakes because the pads are so aggressive. Everytime the ABS pulses the wheel is locking which causes the ABS to release the pressure until it confirms the wheel is rolling again, so then it sends another pulse but it quickly re-locks. Unfortunately I don't think there is much you can do about this, the ABS system is simply calibrated for a much less aggressive pad. I had similar issues when I tried to use an aggressive pad on an auto-x course, didn't work out well at all. Stickier tires will certainly help, as the wheel will be less likely to lock. The problem also shows up any time there is a low traction situation such as sand, marbles (the rubber kind), bump etc. The ABS system simply doesn't allow enough lock up and IMO is dangerous. The Carbotech's will get better as the temperatures come up, but I think your going to have to reprogram your foot.

spearfish25 · 04-03-2010, 07:27 AM

Agree with all of the above.

I'm still running my Potenzas which have been nice tires but can't handle the Carbotechs. Controlled pressure on the brakes yields nice stopping performance but the tires lock up with any energetic brake pedal pressure. Then the ABS kicks on, the car can't figure out what's happening, and the ABS system just $hits the bed and 'ices'.

sig11 · 04-03-2010, 10:51 AM

Hey, spearfish, where did you get the brake grease? Or did you apply any?

spearfish25 · 04-03-2010, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sig11

Hey, spearfish, where did you get the brake grease? Or did you apply any?

Autozone has the Permatex high temp packets. They're about $2 each and the purple color is the high-temp grease. It was recommended by the Carbotech guys. I used about 1 1/3 packets to cover all four pads.

cossie1600 · 04-04-2010, 12:24 AM

now if we can get them to sell the pads a little bit cheaper

sig11 · 04-04-2010, 05:45 PM

I was really surprised by how quiet they are after we got 'em on. They do stop hard.

My front left wheel got a nice spray of air oil from the impact wrench and it looks like the gunmetal gray wheels. :P

shabarivas · 04-04-2010, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

although, I'm really liking the Goodrich R1's. 90% of hoosier performance for 75% of the cost, and they are lasting pretty long too. I think I have about 9-10 track days on them and they still look and grip really good.

If you go to their website - they recommend not running r-comps ... if your tires are too grippy and so are your brakes - then your tire will probably shred off the center of the rim...

cossie1600 · 04-04-2010, 08:48 PM

Never used sub 100 treadwear tires with the XP10, but they never killed any Toyo RA1/R888 or street tires

Mike · 04-04-2010, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shabarivas

If you go to their website - they recommend not running r-comps ... if your tires are too grippy and so are your brakes - then your tire will probably shred off the center of the rim...

where do you get that from? Carbotech recommended my xp12/10 combo. There is no such thing as too much grip or too much brakes

04-02-2010, 09:02 AM	#21 (permalink)
Ryan@IP Base Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 187 Drives: 04 BMW 330i ZHP Rep Power: 282	Glad to hear that the Carbotech love is spreading They know how to make a great pad for sure. I did not see what type of street tires you were using from your original post, but I can confirm that you very likely have too much pad for the street on the tires you are using. My experience has shown that XP8's work best with true street tires (like the RE11 or Dunlop Star Specs) and the compound should be increased as the tire grip is increasing as well. Especially once on track, you will find that your XP10's up front will work very well with R888's or NT01's. Even with street tires though, a car like the 370Z could still use the XP10's for the front on track. __________________ Ryan at Injected Performance Phone: (888) 465-7373

04-03-2010, 07:27 AM	#23 (permalink)
spearfish25 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 4,117 Drives: to work Rep Power: 1856	Agree with all of the above. I'm still running my Potenzas which have been nice tires but can't handle the Carbotechs. Controlled pressure on the brakes yields nice stopping performance but the tires lock up with any energetic brake pedal pressure. Then the ABS kicks on, the car can't figure out what's happening, and the ABS system just $hits the bed and 'ices'. __________________ 2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

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03-30-2010, 09:58 AM	#16 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 29	r888 are garbage in my opinion. i had it on a rx8 and c6. my 350 with ra1 shows higher cornering speed than the other two cars on r8888

03-30-2010, 10:24 AM	#17 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1118	R888 may not be the grippiest thing in the world, but they certainly last longer than most racing tires. Also...I don't know that having slightly lower corner speeds means they are garbage... they just have slightly lower corner speeds because they are meant to last longer.

03-30-2010, 11:04 AM	#18 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 29	i had used 3 sets of those tires on two different cars. i honestly dont feel them lasting longer or provide more grip than even my shaved ra1s. i absolutely cant stand those tires, and i am not the only one as the ra1 s are coming back. i have some datalogs and results that can backup my claim too. on a 3.5 miles course, my half worn r888 was only one sec faster than my d1 star spec, its sad. go with the r1s

03-30-2010, 11:28 AM	#19 (permalink)
RCZ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 6,403 Drives: '09 370Z Rep Power: 1118	Hmm yeah, but I have other folks who swear by the R888s who I know track their cars a lot too. Its all good, and I will take your opinion into account.

04-02-2010, 08:19 AM	#20 (permalink)
sig11 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Detroit Posts: 1,294 Drives: 09 370Z Red Sport-MT Rep Power: 17	I'm really glad to read this, spearfish. I'm going to put my pads on today after I borrow a torque wrench from my brother in law. I was a little worried about cold performance despite what I had been reading... so a direct review like this is pretty awesome.

04-03-2010, 10:51 AM	#24 (permalink)
sig11 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Detroit Posts: 1,294 Drives: 09 370Z Red Sport-MT Rep Power: 17	Hey, spearfish, where did you get the brake grease? Or did you apply any?

04-04-2010, 12:24 AM	#26 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 29	now if we can get them to sell the pads a little bit cheaper

04-04-2010, 05:45 PM	#27 (permalink)
sig11 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Detroit Posts: 1,294 Drives: 09 370Z Red Sport-MT Rep Power: 17	I was really surprised by how quiet they are after we got 'em on. They do stop hard. My front left wheel got a nice spray of air oil from the impact wrench and it looks like the gunmetal gray wheels. :P

04-04-2010, 08:48 PM	#29 (permalink)
cossie1600 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: californee way Posts: 5,380 Drives: 370, Leaf Rep Power: 29	Never used sub 100 treadwear tires with the XP10, but they never killed any Toyo RA1/R888 or street tires