Carbotech Brake Pads Installed, WOW and an interesting finding.

spearfish25

In preparation for track day season, I replaced the stock sport pads with some Carbotech pads (XP10 front, XP8 rear). Following the DIY made the process very easy (with thanks to those who helped me realize the stock squealer bracket is not needed on the Carbotechs!). One thing that has bothered me about the Z is that mine always required a very firm pedal press to actually brake hard and get the antilock to kick in. Well, that's no longer the case!

The Carbotech pads bite like nothing I've ever experience before (first track pad experience, but wow). Where I would have to really exert myself to stop with the stock pads, the Carbotechs only require about 1/10th the pedal effort before they want to throw you through the windshield. The difference is night and day. I'll see how the fade factor improves next week.

One very interesting and potentially concerning finding occurred with a very fast, hard pedal stomp. The brakes bite ferociously, the antilock system engages, and then it felt like I entered the dreaded 'icing mode'. Knowing I couldn't burnish the pads on the street, I made a feeble effort going around the block a number of times. Hard panic stops always started with an abrupt, violent deceleration but then the antilock would come on and the braking force almost stopped. It truly felt like I was on ice and I actually rolled through one intersection. The sensation is exactly like having your antilocks come on while you're on a patch of ice, and you just stop very very slowly.

The pads aren't burnished yet, but the amazing initial bite makes me think this 'sliding' sensation is the damn icing mode we've been talking about in another thread. Have you guys with track pads noticed this phenomenon with a massive pedal stomp? The alternative is that the pads are losing grip without them being appropriately burnished yet, but I just don't feel like that's the issue.

Thoughts?

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2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

RCZ

the dreaded ice mode..

there are a few threads about it already with a lot of info man.

And yes, the carbotechs are unbelievable, told ya

spearfish25

You sure did Absolutely amazing pads. I don't want to take them off now.

As for ice mode...I read through those other threads a few days back which is why I'm curious if what I experienced is 'it'. The strange thing is that I could reproduce this every single time I hammered the brake pedal (other said it happened very sporadically). It would stop like a beast if I stayed out of ABS, but a few seconds of ABS turned into that glazed sliding feeling with no stopping. If this is really the ice mode, then the Z just doesn't tolerate prolonged, heavy ABS activation. I suppose one can threshold brake, treating ABS activation like wheel lockup in a non-ABS car. Scary schiesse though...I better not have that happen on the track!

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2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

ChrisSlicks

I think what is happening is that the ABS is having a hard time modulating the brakes because the pads are so aggressive. Everytime the ABS pulses the wheel is locking which causes the ABS to release the pressure until it confirms the wheel is rolling again, so then it sends another pulse but it quickly re-locks. Unfortunately I don't think there is much you can do about this, the ABS system is simply calibrated for a much less aggressive pad. I had similar issues when I tried to use an aggressive pad on an auto-x course, didn't work out well at all. Stickier tires will certainly help, as the wheel will be less likely to lock. The problem also shows up any time there is a low traction situation such as sand, marbles (the rubber kind), bump etc. The ABS system simply doesn't allow enough lock up and IMO is dangerous. The Carbotech's will get better as the temperatures come up, but I think your going to have to reprogram your foot.

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teejnut

Are you DDing this brake pad setup? If so, how's that going?

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Mike

I don't think you will experience it on the track. The pads are overwhelming your street tires, and you are going much slower when burnishing them then you will be going on the track, and I think they will work out just fine. I believe the ice mode is something people see more in autocross.

Then again, I have brembos up front and was running ferodo pads. I use XP12/XP10 now, but didn't get any hot laps in with them before the oil cooler failed.

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NISSAN: 75 280Z / 86 300ZX GLL /87 Sentra SE / 03 350Z / 23 Z
Porsche: 93 968 / 23 Macan GTS / 93 968

370Zsteve

Re: "icing mode"...you broke those pads in before using them on the track, ya?

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SOLD MY Z MARCH 2018 - another Core OG moves on - new ride 2019 Z Corvette Grand Sport - no mods necessary but already have eyes on HFC and intakes LOL IT NEVER ENDS.

spearfish25

Not sure if this is at me, but if it is....no, haven't tracked yet. I plan to break the pads in on the highway to the track in the wee hours of the morning

I'm hoping the 'iced' sensation is just due to the need for burnishing. Looking at the rotors after my local spin, it appears the track pads just removed the stock pad material from my rotors rather than transferred any new material to them. I think I just resurfaced my rotors!

I'll report back on how the pads are going after next weekend. So far, they have me amazed with the difference in feel.

Carbotech claims they are rotor friendly and have non-corrosive dust making them usable as DD pads. The feel alone has me tempted to keep them on for a while beyond next week. The squeakiness doesn't bug me too much yet. Dust is...ummmm...substantial.

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2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

spearfish25

Does this mean I have to tell my wife that I need some Hoosiers?

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2013 Cadillac V-Wagon, RIP Z

RCZ

Haha, yup. Tell her its not safe without race tires.

Mike

although, I'm really liking the Goodrich R1's. 90% of hoosier performance for 75% of the cost, and they are lasting pretty long too. I think I have about 9-10 track days on them and they still look and grip really good.

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NISSAN: 75 280Z / 86 300ZX GLL /87 Sentra SE / 03 350Z / 23 Z
Porsche: 93 968 / 23 Macan GTS / 93 968

shabarivas

If you go to their website - they recommend not running r-comps ... if your tires are too grippy and so are your brakes - then your tire will probably shred off the center of the rim...

Mike

where do you get that from? Carbotech recommended my xp12/10 combo. There is no such thing as too much grip or too much brakes

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NISSAN: 75 280Z / 86 300ZX GLL /87 Sentra SE / 03 350Z / 23 Z
Porsche: 93 968 / 23 Macan GTS / 93 968

RCZ

Oh yeah? Good to know Mike, thanks for the info.

I'm a big fan of the 888's.

Mike

I haven't tried them new. I would buy qualifying takeoffs used for my corvette, but they never really lasted more than a weekend. I know Sharif runs them too.

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NISSAN: 75 280Z / 86 300ZX GLL /87 Sentra SE / 03 350Z / 23 Z
Porsche: 93 968 / 23 Macan GTS / 93 968