JL shipped me a turd in a box labelled W3 for $159

MattP725 · 06-09-2012, 06:27 PM

Seek refund from vendor or dispute charge at visa/paypal... those would be my first actions.

RonRizz · 06-09-2012, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vjarnot

Speakers fail in two ways:

You turn the volume to a particular level, which determines the load that the speaker places on the amp, let's say X watts.

Now then: your amp either can, or can not, supply X watts:

a) your amp can supply X watts: the speaker plays at the selected volume. If playing at this volume causes the speaker to exceed its thermal or physical capacities (i.e., the amount of heat it can dissipate, or the distance the cone can extend), then the output sound is distorted and the speaker ultimately fails.

b) your amp can not supply X watts: the amplifier attempts to supply the amount of power that the speaker is drawing, but can not. This causes clipping, as the electrical waveform from amp to speaker has its peaks and troughs squared off. The output sound is compressed and the speaker ultimately fails.

The key bit that many people don't get is that the speaker is the component that determines how much output power (i.e., wattage) is drawn from the amp.

by your theory, If I hook up a sub that is rated at 1000 watts rms to an amp that is rated at 25 watts rms, The amp will instantly clip, and blow the speaker?? Total BS Unless I've been doing something wrong for the last 30 years.... Clipping..yes, Overdriving.....Yes, too little power, not a chance.

vjarnot · 06-09-2012, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonRizz

by your theory, If I hook up a sub that is rated at 1000 watts rms to an amp that is rated at 25 watts rms, The amp will instantly clip, and blow the speaker?? Total BS Unless I've been doing something wrong for the last 30 years.... Clipping..yes, Overdriving.....Yes, too little power, not a chance.

I should have realized after the first time in this thread that this was going to end poorly...

No, your amp will not instantly clip. The point at which it clips depends on the efficiency of the speaker and the volume that you have selected (and also the input signal itself, as speaker efficiency typically varies with the frequency it is being asked to reproduce). You will cause your amp to clip when you select a level which your speaker requires more wattage to produce than your amp can deliver, as I wrote earlier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonRizz

Clipping..yes, Overdriving.....Yes, too little power, not a chance.

What, exactly, do you think causes clipping? Hint: it's that third item, which you gave "not a chance".

RonRizz · 06-10-2012, 03:52 AM

Hmmm. whatta ya know. All these years I thought clipping was caused by overdriving the input gains on your amp.

vjarnot · 06-10-2012, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonRizz

Hmmm. whatta ya know. All these years I thought clipping was caused by overdriving the input gains on your amp.

That's what I said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vjarnot

You will cause your amp to clip when you select a level which your speaker requires more wattage to produce than your amp can deliver

Wicked CAS · 06-11-2012, 08:33 AM

Let's keep it on the topic... this member has a problem with a subwoofer and amp combo.... as a result he has a blown sub....

Sooooooooo, Did you call the vendor yet, and what happened.
Did you get serial number on the back of the sub or on the packaging.

Vertigo · 06-11-2012, 10:02 AM

Not yet - I'll have that info when Matt takes my sub out this weekend and puts my replacement sub in.

RonRizz · 06-11-2012, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wicked CAS

Let's keep it on the topic... this member has a problem with a subwoofer and amp combo.... as a result he has a blown sub....

Sooooooooo, Did you call the vendor yet, and what happened.
Did you get serial number on the back of the sub or on the packaging.

Roger that. Sorry, didn't mean to hijack you, vertigo.

morcheez · 06-11-2012, 06:12 PM

I have had the same 10" jlw3v3 for 7 years now... It has survived when 2 amps didnt haha

2ndChance · 06-12-2012, 01:25 AM

Sorry to hear that yours failed in such short time.. but I had a 10" sealed and 12" vented W3v3 setup in the past and they were wonderful, one of them was over driven past manufacturers limit for more than a year and still worked fine!

Vertigo · 06-12-2012, 09:49 AM

Thanks for all of the thread comments.
I guess the failure of the sub is probably due to a wiring error of 1ohm instead of being at 4ohms.

The thing I'm still not getting is, the other JL sub I have is still working completely fine being wired at 1ohm, and doesn't sound like it's getting too much power whatsoever. My volume levels are still as low as they were when the 1 sub stopped working.

If the wiring caused the subs to get wayyyyyy too much power, shouldn't they both be dead, instead of one being toast and the other working as good as new?

This is why I think there's something defective with the one sub.

reunited · 06-12-2012, 11:48 AM

a) Title of post
b) acknowledgement by OP that subs were wired wrong and received way too much power
c) one sub failed, the other didn't
d) Conclusion: since ONE sub did not fail, then the sub that failed must have been defective.

??????

Does this fail to make sense to anyone else or am I just having a bad day?

Vertigo · 06-12-2012, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reunited

a) Title of post
b) acknowledgement by OP that subs were wired wrong and received way too much power
c) one sub failed, the other didn't
d) Conclusion: since ONE sub did not fail, then the sub that failed must have been defective.

??????

Does this fail to make sense to anyone else or am I just having a bad day?

^ you're having a bad day.

vividracing · 06-12-2012, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vertigo

Thanks for all of the thread comments.
I guess the failure of the sub is probably due to a wiring error of 1ohm instead of being at 4ohms.

The thing I'm still not getting is, the other JL sub I have is still working completely fine being wired at 1ohm, and doesn't sound like it's getting too much power whatsoever. My volume levels are still as low as they were when the 1 sub stopped working.

If the wiring caused the subs to get wayyyyyy too much power, shouldn't they both be dead, instead of one being toast and the other working as good as new?

This is why I think there's something defective with the one sub.

You were overpowering them substantially. If there was a defect, it wasn't the ultimate source of the failure. It may have allowed the woofer to fail sooner than the other, but the fact remains that they were severely overpowered.

Let's put it this way... If I put 2 brand new cars on the dyno and run them both at 2000 RPM over redline and one blows up before the other I can't really say that car was defective. It was being pushed beyond it's engineered limits. The other car just held out longer. Maybe the car that lasted longer was built a little better, maybe not.

Vertigo · 06-12-2012, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vividracing

You were overpowering them substantially. If there was a defect, it wasn't the ultimate source of the failure. It may have allowed the woofer to fail sooner than the other, but the fact remains that they were severely overpowered.

Let's put it this way... If I put 2 brand new cars on the dyno and run them both at 2000 RPM over redline and one blows up before the other I can't really say that car was defective. It was being pushed beyond it's engineered limits. The other car just held out longer. Maybe the car that lasted longer was built a little better, maybe not.

Makes sense when you put it that way.
Thanks for everyone's patience with my questions.

06-10-2012, 03:52 AM	#49 (permalink)
RonRizz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Pine grove, Pa Posts: 2,132 Drives: 2 feet, 3 pedals Rep Power: 6774	Hmmm. whatta ya know. All these years I thought clipping was caused by overdriving the input gains on your amp. __________________ P99rs Head Unit--- Amps- 2 Pioneer Prs800d --- Zapco ST1000MX---Zapco ST-4XSQ---- SI BM mk5 Subs---SI TM65v2 Midbass--- SI M3 mids--- SI M25 xbl2 tweeters ----- 2016 MECA street class 3rd place at world finals

06-11-2012, 08:33 AM	#51 (permalink)
Wicked CAS The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Kingston, NH. Posts: 469 Drives: 98 Supra 1036 RWHP Rep Power: 15	Let's keep it on the topic... this member has a problem with a subwoofer and amp combo.... as a result he has a blown sub.... Sooooooooo, Did you call the vendor yet, and what happened. Did you get serial number on the back of the sub or on the packaging. __________________ www.wickedcas.com Call: 603-642-4222 E-mail: Wickedcas@aol.com *DIRECT AUTHORIZED DEALER FOR:* AUDISON, HERTZ, JL AUDIO, JL AUDIO MARINE, KENWOOD EXCELON, COMPUSTAR, DIAMOND AUDIO, CACHE, ARC AUDIO, K40, PASSPORT ESCORT.

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06-09-2012, 06:27 PM	#46 (permalink)
MattP725 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2011 Location: Toms River, NJ Posts: 1,904 Drives: 2010 40th Rep Power: 16	Seek refund from vendor or dispute charge at visa/paypal... those would be my first actions.

06-11-2012, 10:02 AM	#52 (permalink)
Vertigo A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 15,476 Drives: 370z / R32 Rep Power: 220	Not yet - I'll have that info when Matt takes my sub out this weekend and puts my replacement sub in.

06-11-2012, 06:12 PM	#54 (permalink)
morcheez Base Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: new orleans Posts: 22 Drives: 2011 370z Rep Power: 13	I have had the same 10" jlw3v3 for 7 years now... It has survived when 2 amps didnt haha

06-12-2012, 01:25 AM	#55 (permalink)
2ndChance Base Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Panama Posts: 240 Drives: like he stole it Rep Power: 199	Sorry to hear that yours failed in such short time.. but I had a 10" sealed and 12" vented W3v3 setup in the past and they were wonderful, one of them was over driven past manufacturers limit for more than a year and still worked fine!

06-12-2012, 09:49 AM	#56 (permalink)
Vertigo A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 15,476 Drives: 370z / R32 Rep Power: 220	Thanks for all of the thread comments. I guess the failure of the sub is probably due to a wiring error of 1ohm instead of being at 4ohms. The thing I'm still not getting is, the other JL sub I have is still working completely fine being wired at 1ohm, and doesn't sound like it's getting too much power whatsoever. My volume levels are still as low as they were when the 1 sub stopped working. If the wiring caused the subs to get wayyyyyy too much power, shouldn't they both be dead, instead of one being toast and the other working as good as new? This is why I think there's something defective with the one sub.

06-12-2012, 11:48 AM	#57 (permalink)
reunited Base Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: meta state Posts: 72 Drives: 12 370 AT, sport Rep Power: 13	a) Title of post b) acknowledgement by OP that subs were wired wrong and received way too much power c) one sub failed, the other didn't d) Conclusion: since ONE sub did not fail, then the sub that failed must have been defective. ?????? Does this fail to make sense to anyone else or am I just having a bad day?