Cobb vs UpRev

LiquidZ

That's pretty much what I was thinking.

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NIZMOZ

That is what I was quoted from UPREV for dyno time to tune the car. So I just quoted it that way.

You have to pay for the amount of time you are on the dyno. Any tuning software is like this. They can sell you the software but they won't let you use the dyno for free. You still have to tune your car on the dyno. So without that you are SOL.

If you don't want a custom tune to your car, to your mods, then yes you can do the E-Tune service. But that is not available yet even on the HR engine as they don't have enough cars and mods in their system to do this yet to know what to adjust for power gains. So expect a long wait on that.

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SOLD: 2007 NISMO 350Z #0044 Silver Alloy
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semtex

FricFrac,

I'm not sure your travel expenses should be part of the equation, because that's not really on whoever makes the tuning software or does the tuning, know what I mean? On the other hand, in so far as you're trying to make a personal decision, it's obviously relevant, so I guess we could go either way. Anyway, let's tackle this one piece at at time.

Okay, for the dyno tune option, you are correct that there is no hardware or software included. You get the new maps loaded into your ECU and that's it. $900 sounds about right, esp. if that's in Cdn dollars.

Yes Osiris is useless without Cipher. That's why Cipher is included with Osiris, as they clearly state on their website. So if you get Osiris Standard (presumably to go the eTune route instead of dyno tuning), your total cost is $700 US, period. Like I said, it includes Cipher. It has to, because Cipher is what logs the data. You then send those logs to UpRev and they build your eTune maps off of that data. Hence my remark that Osiris is useless without Cipher. Then they send those eTune maps back to you, and you load them into your ECU via Osiris.

I think you're on the verge of making this more complicated than it needs to be. Your options, as best as I can simplify them, are as follows:

1. Get a dyno tune with UpRev. Total cost to you including travel is $1200. If you want to be able to datalog afterwards, you will need to spend another $300 (US) and purchase Cipher, plus supply your own laptop. The total then goes up to roughly $1500 (probably something like $1540 once you do the currency conversion on the $300 for Cipher).
   
2. Forgo the dyno tune and just rely on eTunes with UpRev Osiris Standard. Total cost to you is $700 US, and it includes Cipher. So you have the datalogging software, but you still need to supply your own hardware (laptop) (they do give you the OBDII cable though). How accurate are the eTunes? More accurate than a generic map because the maps are being built off of the data from your car, but a little less accurate than a true dyno tune, because the tuner isn't there to actually get a feel for what your car is doing.
   
3. Get a dyno tune with Cobb. I don't know if you have a Cobb Pro-Tuner in your area or how much they charge, so the price is not known at this point. But you should expect it to be around $1200, not including any travel costs. So it's more expensive than a dyno tune with UpRev, but you get the Cobb AP handheld unit which does the datalogging. So no need to spend an extra $300 for datalogging software, and no need to supply your own laptop. If travel is also $300, then your total goes up to $1500, which makes it a wash between an UpRev dyno tune and a Cobb dyno tune, at least in terms of price. If it costs the same, then it boils down to preference at this point between having a standalone handheld unit from Cobb vs. having to use your own laptop with UpRev Cipher. On the other hand, with UpRev you can switch maps via your cruise control buttons, and you can't do that with Cobb. So which is more important to you? The cruise control button functionality? Or not having to use your own laptop for datalogging? I think that's the deciding factor between options 1 and 3.
   
4. There's a fourth option that we haven't given much attention to. Cobb also has its own 'eTune' type service, where you buy the Cobb AP, log the data, then send it in to a Cobb Pro-Tuner (like Sharif) and have him build your maps and send them back to you. Then you upload them via the Cobb AP handheld. I don't know what the total cost of this option is. The AP unit is $695, then you'd have to pay the tuner separately. (Maybe you should PM Sharif to see how much he'd charge). BUT, we already know that it's going to end up costing more than UpRev's eTune service. Because Osiris Standard costs $700, and it includes 3 eTunes. With Cobb, you're basically paying $700 just for the AP unit before the cost of the eTunes even enters into things. But again, that doesn't automatically mean that Cobb is ripoff, because you're getting a standalone unit with them, and not with UpRev.

Those are your options. Step 1 in your decision making process now is to ask yourself: Do you want a full-blown dyno tune? Or will an eTune suffice? If you want a full-blown dyno tune, you need to chose between options 1 and 3. If you are content with an eTune, you need to choose between options 2 and 4 (and for option 4 you need to PM Sharif to find out how much he'd charge to do your eTune maps before you'll know total cost of that option).

I don't think I can make it any more simple than this. (And you may thank me with rep. )

__________________
"There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna
316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) | 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10)
Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

Sharif@Forged

^^I said "one" of the few^^ Welcome.

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General Manager/Certified Tuner/NASA-PCA-BMWCAA Instructor
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HP Logic

Just meesin with ya!...

.....ok back on topic...sorry.

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Jack Cecil
HorsepowerLogic.com

semtex

Can one of you guys elaborate on what the Real Time Tuning is, and what its benefits are?

__________________
"There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna
316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) | 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10)
Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

westpak

Real Time Tuning (RTT) allows you to select some parameters that will be modifed in real time as you make the run on the dyno, as opposed to the normal way of doing the run then analyzing the results and making changes and then reruning the car to see the effect of your changes.

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semtex

Thanks for explaining. So in terms of end result, does it really make any difference? I mean it sounds like it saves time on the dyno, but doesn't really make a difference to the net gain you end up with. Am I right?

__________________
"There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna
316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) | 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10)
Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

westpak

yeap you are right

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t-ray

One thing that I would like to point out is street tuning. I don't know about the cobb unit, but with something like Osiris(end-user tuning option)+Cipher, one has all the tools necessary to make the ultimate street tune. After all, even the most sophisticated dyno is nothing but an approximation.

With something like Cipher, one can log with ultra high precision how long it takes to accelerate between two given speeds in a given gear. Make some adjustments, and make another run. The cipher logs should be precise to the ~10 millisecond level.

I don't know what the logging capabilities are of the AP unit.

Eman

I'm not sure how pro-tuners are doing it with the nissans, but when I got my pro-tune for my suby with the accessport, it included the dyno tune first, then the street tune to smooth everything out afterwards. Makes more sense to do it this way because there's no way to get a good tune if you're only doing one or the other.

semtex

Are you talking about Osiris Pro where you do your own tuning? Or Osiris standard where you send them your data logs and they send you back an eTune? If you're talking about former, then it makes sense. Problem is not everyone knows how to do their own tuning (myself included). If you're talking about eTunes, I think I'd rather dyno tune than rely on the eTunes.

__________________
"There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna
316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) | 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10)
Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

t-ray

Sorry, I was talking about the Pro. I didn't name it explicitly because I haven't paid attention to the various package names available.

I've wanted Cipher for a long time now; I just can't justify spending $400 for data logging. However, with it, I could street tune my current ride(I presently have a utec). That sounds really cool and would be an awesome learning experience. Plus, there's all kinds of little things I've wanted to log.

For example, I would like to log acceleration times in from say 40mph to 120mph in 4th gear. That would give me a fairly large area of rpm, in a sufficiently long gear. Then run the same rpm range in 3rd gear. 3rd gear is approximately 27% shorter than 4th gear. Then do something similar in 5th. 5th gear is about 27% taller than 4th. It would be interesting to plot acceleration in 3rd, 4th, and 5th against gear ratios.

Once one obtained a large enough sample set, one could start playing with final drive numbers, either through the FD ratio, or tire sizes, and make some decently educated guesses on how changes affected acceleration.

Also, I believe(but don't know for sure) Cipher can log the pitch and yaw sensors used by VDC. It would be interesting(purely as an academic exercise) to measure pitch and yaw on the car over a known section of road as you change suspension components or tire compounds.

As you can see, I would prefer the UpRev solution. There's all kinds of neat scientific/geeky things one can learn from its data logging capabilities. But I have the benefit of having an older platform where the product is available. If I owned a 370z at this moment, I would get the Cobb.

FricFrac

Semtex thanks for the long explanation there - I think I've finally got it sorted out in my head. I just like to know every little detail and figure out what the most bang for the buck is on mods, etc. Travel costs are definately part of the equation for me since I'm trying to figure out the total cost/peformance.

So that being said it sounds like a dyno tune is the only option with Uprev at this point since there is no e-tune available according to NIZMOZ...

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'09 370Z - '93 300ZX Vert - '83 280ZX - '83 280ZXT -'81 280ZXT stroker - '72 240Z - Stillen CBE, HFC, G3, Grounding Kit, Sways // Swift Spring // H&R 15mm // 5% Tint // Clear Bra //

semtex

Not even a dyno tune is available with UpRev yet. They haven't finished their development for the 370Z yet. The only thing available so far is dyno tune with Cobb.

__________________
"There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna
316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) | 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10)
Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.