Fuel starvation, who else?

travisjb

Let's keep it civil, gents.

"Treat everyone like a gentleman,
not because they are, but because you are."

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2009 370Z #104
*For Sale*

Bucketlist2012

Best post of the day...and the signature ? Priceless..

I will do my own testing this Summer...Until then...No Comment..

Thanks to those who gave some good info..And to Travis, for some sanity.

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2009 Sport/Touring 370Z
1971 Z/28 with coil overs, rushforth's, willwoods, Hotchkis. 4 speed
GMC Sierra1500

cossie1600

Nope, I wasnt talking about anyone but you! I never said Nissen shouldnt fix it for free, but I have always said that you have a better chance of seeing god than getting Nissan to fix anything or doing the right thing. (see steering lock too). As of right now, there is no fix. you can come up with one to make money or just deal with it like everyone else.

phunk

Last leg here... we have a pair of intake manifolds going in the CNC on saturday and then its surge can production time.

BTW, our prototype tester told me yesterday he has 400 miles on it now on this track only car between dyno and track testing. Sometime in the last week or two he had it on thunderbolt or thunderhill or something along those lines near NJ and he said he was able to run the car to at 1/4 tank (or maybe he said just below, cant recall) without a single hiccup yet. So he hasnt found a limit of our prototype so far. This track apparently is a mostly right hand track? You guys would know better than me. Either how, he said he used to have a lot of problems on this one. But there is another track that was the biggest problem for the car that he is going to be testing on soon and that should be the final results.

The part I was really happy to hear about was that he was satisfied enough with the results so far, that instead of moving to a fuel cell as he originally had planned, he has ordered another OEM gas tank from Nissan to weld on the dry break fill neck stuff and move the existing rig all over to it and put it in the car.



As for complaining about Nissan not fixing this.... This is car has the worst fuel starvation I have seen. Its it not acceptable at all. I have been around tons of sports cars working in this industry for a long time... its always been common sense to be careful at low tank levels but the 370z is horrendous... I am not exageratting when I say I can EASILY get my 370z, with only 1 LED of the gas gauge not lit, to completely starve coming out of a right hander. It wasnt so bad when my car was more stock, it used to have to be half tank or below... but at mid 500s to the wheels on 305 R compound tires, using E85 (increases fuel needs roughly 30%)... this is rediculous.

MOST cars will need a surge can setup at SOME point. I have never seen a car that needs one STOCK.

Where nissan went wrong, is not entirely clear to me. This cars fuel system is nearly identical to the 350z in its theory... just some things have been shaped and squished around a little... but the entire theory on how it operates is the same and the 350z did not have the problem NEARLY as bad. My 350z was setup more than my 370z and could turn harder, and made more power, and only once in 7+ years of having that car fully mod'd and twin turbo, did I ever get right hand fuel starvation.

There are easy changes that could be made to the gas tank itself, that would cost nissan very little, that would resolve this issue. But making changes to the gas tank in the aftermarket in just not the same... it needs to be done before the gas tank is welded together at the factory and filled with gasoline. Once that is all done, forget adding anything significant to the inside structure of the tank... and getting the tank inside and out of these cars is no fun task either.

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cossie1600

No revision as of last year, still the same BS. I wonder if the 2013 cars have a revised gas tanK?!?

ChrisSlicks

Thunderbolt and Lightning are the two NJ tracks.

Thunderbolt is all right hand turns except for 2 lefts, the 7, 8, 9 linked corners take you through a 270 degree sweep and is pretty brutal for fuel starve if you have sticky tires.
Thuderbolt Track Map

Lightning is also all right hand turns with 2 lefts thrown in. The tough one here is the 9, 10 combo. It is a lightly banked high speed (90 mph entry, 110 exit) turn called the lightbulb that takes you through 180 degrees. You are 50% throttle after turn-in and then 100% throttle by the time you spot the late apex. You usually get the fuel stave here as you are straightening out the car for the main straight.
Lightning Track Map

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Ron

say.. intake manifolds for the Z?

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phunk

Yes but for more DE engines.

Very little has been done on our 370z billet intake. Its actually been waiting for the surge can. I told myself why even bother with the intake for now when we are struggling to wrap up the surge can which is going to sell far better. I will probably zip up the intake manifold when the surge can is done.

I could make a 5 page post about that stuff but I dont want to take this thread off track

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phunk

to add to this... the fuel starvation in this car is so bad that even with a surge tank configuration setup.. I have concerns of the primary pump (pump that fills the surge can) frying on a regular basis due to constant abuse of running dry. With people who track regularly, even with our surge can product, I might recommend people keep a couple small tools and a backup primary pump on hand.

There is very little I can do to help the primary pump from running dry. I have built in some "recovery" features that I believe will help aid the primary pump from getting dry quite as often... but I have no way to tell if that will be enough until I have a whole clan of you guys out there running this setup.

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phunk

If they did, I would probably know by now. I say that only because our prototype tester is a part of a Nissan dealership, and he would have most likely noticed a change in the part number. If the tank itself using the same part number has been revised, then we will know that shortly when his new tank arrives.

BTW Our prototype is in the Performance Motorsports 370z. I dont think they post a whole lot, but I did a quick search and found they have some videos on youtube but they dont add any descriptions or anything. I havent been there in person to see anything, but I assume this is the car running the prototype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1Wzh...feature=relmfu

I cant recall when he installed the prototype, I would have to look back thru this thread at my old posts... I dont think it was in the car in that video.

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cossie1600

I am surprised they didnt fix the oil temp by removing the gauge

bebeone

I completly agree with Phunk - the thing is, that the fuel starvation on 370z is too big and too sensitive. Something went wrong when design of fuel system was made. Thats why so many people encounter this problem. Top up and forget is the solution for weekend trackers, redesign is for daily trackers

ValidusVentus

^hmhmhmhmm


Phunk, keep up the good work man, we all appreciate it.

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FortuneLSX-TT

I've encountered this problem many times myself. It first started on a hard right hand on-ramp with an incline. I was at about 1/4tank, I starved the car so bad that it died. Couldn't get it re-started either.

Fuel gauge went completely to 0 dots, tow truck driver thought I had just ran it dry and was an idiot. After we got to Nissan, enough fuel had made its way back over to the other side that it started right up and I was at 1/4 tank again. (Only mods at this point was a tire upgrade to some 285up front and 305's in the rear)

Once I figured out the issue, I decided to do some testing. Turns out I could run into some hiccups on the on ramp with over 3/4ths a tank of fuel.

Add in some turbos, and now while Autocrossing I can get it on a sweeping right hand turn if I don't fill up every other lap. I initially thought it was my tune breaking up, until I decided to go get some more gas. Which solved the problem immediately. So below like 95% full I can make it happen.

I'm just going to end up going with an external tank and probably a return system. Any tips for that Phunk?

stratburst

All I know is that it would piss me off if a civic blew by me because the Z was choking on air. I might do something crazy like sell the car and get an "S"!