370z vs 335i Coupe

Push370zzz · 03-16-2011, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianthegreat

From one 335i owner to another... 360rwhp is a bit stretched. Maaaaybe 350 at 12-14 psi tune only. Our cars dyno stock around 260-290 depending on elevation and conditions. For example, in Houston I dynoed stock at 282, after tune I was in the 330 range at 12psi. After I installed my dp's, fmic, exhaust I was around 380-390. Then w/ meth I can jump above 400rwhp on pump 93.

Agreed...I was running 93 octane at about 14.5 psi. On my 135i they dyno at 340whp with 91 and map 1 on JB4.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianthegreat

8 psi is stock boost. 360rwhp is far-fetched from tune only. See my post above. Now don't get me wrong, at 15-18psi you can easily be 350-390rwhp, but without any supporting mods you're raggin on the engine.

I have a meth injection in the mail

GZ3 · 03-15-2011, 11:58 AM

I have seen several dyno for this vehicle, the normal is about 260-280....so he is saying with "just a tune" no other supporting mods, just a flash, he is making over 120rwhp? The DME tune for these vehicles barely gets you close to 350rwhp

Push370zzz · 03-15-2011, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLM

I don't think we're intending to frustrate you bro. Everyones entitled to their opinion. In terms of "un-tunable" I think it really depends on personal preference and the "want" for power. It's hard to compare an OEM NA car with one that is F.I. Any F.I. car will make more power per mod. Once the VVEL is tuned I think the Z will be able to make even more power, both NA and with those who choose to go the F.I. route. But other than Porsche (and BMW wit the E46 M3) I don't see many other cars with so much power out of the box from a 6-cyl engine. Also, the Z has been shown to make 40 whp gains with intake, exhaust, and "tune" (just to smooth out AFR). I have a very long daily commute to work, and even on the freeways I dont have much chance to open the car up. I don't have much use for anything faster than this, even though I will be doing some bolt-on mods.

It all comes down to personal preference. I don't think anyone's "hating" on the 135i. Different strokes for different folks.

Are we really going to talk about what might happen with the VVEL?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GZ3

Untunable motor?! Are you serious! First off VVEL hasnt even been cracked, there are so many parameters that havent even been touched. Right now its just AF ratio, timming and a few other little adjustments...and even for what it is, it still makes decent power on a tune. Second, you need to realize that your "just a tune" is for your TURBOS! You have what 300hp/300tq TWIN TURBO charged straight 6 right? Well of course a tune is gonna do allot for for you, you have (2) huge power adders right there. That straight 6 motor with out the AID of turbos wouldnt tune for than 10-15rwhp. NA gain VS FI gain is a retarded comparison. In fact i dont know any motor in the history of man (maybe you can enlighten) that is NA with "just a tune" that picks up over 150rwhp. Your tuning for the TURBOS not the motor...that motor is nothing more power than a Scion TC without the turbos. Third, about the handling, you say that with just sways and this and that you can keep up with a 370Z..? Am sure, maybe, but what 370Z is gonna stay stock anyway?! Stock for stock, mod for mod the 135I will not outhandle the Z.../

I am well aware that the tuning just ups the boost...but I don't really care where the 100 bhp I picked up comes from. I don't know what I could have said to make you this angry over it, but I think it is more fun to spend a couple thousand dollars or so and pick up almost 200 hp at the crank (Tune + Methanol Injection + Bolt Ons). What does $2000 bucks get you in the Z...30whp? That's what I'm saying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLM

Some of these numbers seem amiss. The "lowest" boost setting makes 360 whp? It's rated at 300 bhp, so I'm thinking 260 whp stock? So you're saying that just by turning up the boost you're gaining 100 whp? I doubt this, but if so, what is the stock boost? And what boost is the "high" setting? If you're gaining 100 whp that has to be a difference of almost 50% boost or more, which in every other stock turbo car I've seen, would need bigger injectors, fuel pump, oil cooler, and FMIC to operate without heat soak, knock (there must be a timing advance in this tune - there's no way it's just from increased boost), etc

I have seen dynos from 265 to 275 rwhp stock, producing 345 to about 355 rwhp with JUST a tune on map 1 @ 13 psi. Map 2 is 14.5 psi, and map 7 is more like 16-17 (I can't remember) but you need 100 Octane gas at a minimum. For map 1 and 2, you really don't need to modify a thing.

http://www.burgertuning.com/images/dyno2.jpg
BMW Performance | JB3 | JB4 | BMW Chip | Juice Box | E90 Tuning | JuiceBox | BMW Performance

Quote:

Originally Posted by GZ3

I have seen several dyno for this vehicle, the normal is about 260-280....so he is saying with "just a tune" no other supporting mods, just a flash, he is making over 120rwhp? The DME tune for these vehicles barely gets you close to 350rwhp

Said almost 400...which is around 370-380 at the wheels. Here is a dyno with lower boost setting and only intake and downpipes.
http://burgertuning.com/images/dyno3.jpg

Here's another with high boost map, upgraded FMIC, intake, 100 octane, and full exhaust.
http://burgertuning.com/images/jb3_max_power.jpg

GZ3 · 03-15-2011, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Push370zzz

I am well aware that the tuning just ups the boost...but I don't really care where the 100 bhp I picked up comes from. I don't know what I could have said to make you this angry over it, but I think it is more fun to spend a couple thousand dollars or so and pick up almost 200 hp at the crank (Tune + Methanol Injection + Bolt Ons). What does $2000 bucks get you in the Z...30whp? That's what I'm saying.

well i have only spent $789 and already gained 32rwhp. dont even have a full exhaust, tune, pulley, manifold, no VVEL tunning or Adjusting ie CAMS heads, no headers...pretty bare bones here

Push370zzz · 03-15-2011, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GZ3

well i have only spent $789 and already gained 32rwhp. dont even have a full exhaust, tune, pulley, manifold, no VVEL tunning or Adjusting ie CAMS heads, no headers...pretty bare bones here

What's your torque curve look like?

GZ3 · 03-15-2011, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Push370zzz

What's your torque curve look like?

not to bad i gained, 25rwtq...the y pipe bieng the main contributer. I have the dyno here somewhere in the intake/exhaust section....my car is all motordyne parts...just waiting for them to release a full exhaust and thier intake so i can finally get a tune. I enjoy a good discussion

ianthegreat · 03-16-2011, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GZ3

I have seen several dyno for this vehicle, the normal is about 260-280....so he is saying with "just a tune" no other supporting mods, just a flash, he is making over 120rwhp? The DME tune for these vehicles barely gets you close to 350rwhp

The piggybacks, a la JuiceBox, Procede, COBB, net a lot more than flashes currently.

BLM · 03-15-2011, 12:08 PM

It's just not something I'd do (just flash the ecu without supporting mods). I had a turbo car before and I replaced the exhaust, intake, and intercooler before messing with the ecu. Idk much about the stock 335/135 intercoolers, but even people who dont up the boost go with FMIC's.

TXSpeedDemon · 03-15-2011, 02:58 PM

Is this thread seriously still alive? Face it, they are both great performance cars - stock or modified. Total amount spent (including the car) will net you a similar result on either car, or at the very least the result you're going for if you plan your mods right.

The difference really is in the styling. One car is for dicks who like chicks, and the other is for chicks who like ****. Not really much else to it.

Push370zzz · 03-15-2011, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXSpeedDemon

Is this thread seriously still alive? Face it, they are both great performance cars - stock or modified. Total amount spent (including the car) will net you a similar result on either car, or at the very least the result you're going for if you plan your mods right.

The difference really is in the styling. One car is for dicks who like chicks, and the other is for chicks who like ****. Not really much else to it.

You have a Mazda Protege...

TXSpeedDemon · 03-15-2011, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Push370zzz

You have a Mazda Protege...

As my daily driver. Not that I need to justify but:
- It's also one of only 2000 ever made
- And one of the first 600 MazdaSpeed vehicles to be sold in the USA
- It made over 270WHP at it's peak (and only weighed 2800 lbs with me in it)
- Now that I ALSO have a 370z my Mazda is detuned to only 8-10psi and making a more conservative 225ish WHP.

However, if you'd like to see how your car does against my MSP I'd be happy to turn the boost back up to 13lbs and leave you behind on the highway. Trust me, I have both cars and the Mazda (when pushed) is definitely faster than my 370 was when stock.

And I'm not hating on the 135. Like I said it's a great performance/luxury blend. But in my personal opinion the styling of the Z is a night and day difference.

GZ3 · 03-15-2011, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXSpeedDemon

As my daily driver. Not that I need to justify but:
- It's also one of only 2000 ever made
- And one of the first 600 MazdaSpeed vehicles to be sold in the USA
- It made over 270WHP at it's peak (and only weighed 2800 lbs with me in it)
- Now that I ALSO have a 370z my Mazda is detuned to only 8-10psi and making a more conservative 225ish WHP.

However, if you'd like to see how your car does against my MSP I'd be happy to turn the boost back up to 13lbs and leave you behind on the highway. Trust me, I have both cars and the Mazda (when pushed) is definitely faster than my 370 was when stock.

And I'm not hating on the 135. Like I said it's a great performance/luxury blend. But in my personal opinion the styling of the Z is a night and day difference.

would love to have a friendly run with you man, where are you located?

TXSpeedDemon · 03-15-2011, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GZ3

would love to have a friendly run with you man, where are you located?

Dallas. Anytime you come up let me know.

Like I said the MSP is detuned now so I'd need a few days to get to my tuner to upload the old maps onto the Unichip and mix up a batch of the old home-brew 105 octane blend. And she's 8 years old now with 120K hard miles on her so it's would be just a few short runs, but she'd probably like it if I brought her out of retirement for a little bit

And Push... I honestly meant no personal offence on the styling comment. I do drive an orange car every day, which seemed like a good idea 8 years ago when I was in my mid 20s, but doesn't really put me in a position to knock anyone else's styling preferences.

And I do love the motor in that thing. A girl I'm dating just picked up a used 335 and we've begun the modification process on that. You're right on the ease of power additions, no doubt about it. I spent probably $3K on my Mazda and picked up about 150whp. I've spent a little under $2K on my Z and picked up maybe 30whp. If only they were all so easy!

Push370zzz · 03-15-2011, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXSpeedDemon

As my daily driver. Not that I need to justify but:
- It's also one of only 2000 ever made
- And one of the first 600 MazdaSpeed vehicles to be sold in the USA
- It made over 270WHP at it's peak (and only weighed 2800 lbs with me in it)
- Now that I ALSO have a 370z my Mazda is detuned to only 8-10psi and making a more conservative 225ish WHP.

However, if you'd like to see how your car does against my MSP I'd be happy to turn the boost back up to 13lbs and leave you behind on the highway. Trust me, I have both cars and the Mazda (when pushed) is definitely faster than my 370 was when stock.

And I'm not hating on the 135. Like I said it's a great performance/luxury blend. But in my personal opinion the styling of the Z is a night and day difference.

The BMW is my daily driver too...and the 135i is substantially faster than a 370z with any bolt on. Can it beat your Mazda? Probably. Do I care? Not really.

christian370z · 03-15-2011, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Push370zzz

The BMW is my daily driver too...and the 135i is substantially faster than a 370z with any bolt on. Can it beat your Mazda? Probably. Do I care? Not really.

I recently did a friendly run with my friend who has a 335i 6MT and a JB3 tune and pulled on him with the mods listed in my signature (haven't gotten an updated dyno run since the CBE). Different cars for different purposes, if he added some bolt ons and a more aggressive tune then the tables would be turned for sure.

03-15-2011, 11:58 AM	#2 (permalink)
GZ3 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: SATX Posts: 3,296 Drives: Z Rep Power: 23	I have seen several dyno for this vehicle, the normal is about 260-280....so he is saying with "just a tune" no other supporting mods, just a flash, he is making over 120rwhp? The DME tune for these vehicles barely gets you close to 350rwhp __________________ 09 GT-R 12' 370Z 7AT HANDED DOWN 12'+13' 5.0 SOLD

03-15-2011, 12:08 PM	#8 (permalink)
BLM Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NJ Posts: 342 Drives: 2011 Silver M6 sport Rep Power: 16	It's just not something I'd do (just flash the ecu without supporting mods). I had a turbo car before and I replaced the exhaust, intake, and intercooler before messing with the ecu. Idk much about the stock 335/135 intercoolers, but even people who dont up the boost go with FMIC's. __________________ K&N // GTM // BERK

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03-15-2011, 02:58 PM	#9 (permalink)
TXSpeedDemon Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 330 Drives: 370Z, MSP, R8, 335 Rep Power: 3373	Is this thread seriously still alive? Face it, they are both great performance cars - stock or modified. Total amount spent (including the car) will net you a similar result on either car, or at the very least the result you're going for if you plan your mods right. The difference really is in the styling. One car is for dicks who like chicks, and the other is for chicks who like ****. Not really much else to it.