Subaru powered Toyota FT-86 Concept

Zaggeron

^^ You can say that about any car once it hits the used market. Some lose their value more quickly than others, but it matters little if you are getting the car new and planning to thrash it till it's worthless anyway.

I see the retail prices of new FRS and BRZs next year being on par with other niche vehicles --people are gonna pay right around invoice or a little more for them. Right now people are willing to pay MSRP, but next year they'll be many more of them around and the dealers will be selling them for invoice.

At that point everyone wins right? The dealers make a little less profit, but they have more to sell. And people get a nice little sports coupe for just a little more than a well spec'd Camry.

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2010 Platinum Graphite 370z Roadster:Touring/Sport
2013 Subaru BRZ Limited

Shamu

That would be true if we were talking about a differnt demographic who traditionally hold onto practical cars longer. You will see yonger demographic buying these and selling them a couple years down the road.

WInners will be people like me who wait for somone to unload one with low miles at 60% off what they paid in 2 years. No I see these cars as having very high depreciation. They arent special enough to hold value and the higher numbers will mean there will be poorly cared for cars that pull others down with them. One thing Porsches had going in intial phases were parts were expensive so thrashed Boxsters still commanded decent price for parts. this car uses pretty plain Jane components shared with Subi, Toyota and Scion. Nope this car will a$s rape new buyers who pay MSRP now.

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Grant

Zaggeron

All people who buy used cars should laugh at the folks who break them in for them. You'd be raped if you bought a Corvette in 2006 and tried to sell it now

2006 base Corvette: retail in 2006 43,700. avg Kelly BB value now 27k
2006 Z06: retail in 2006 64K. avg Kelly BB value now 36K


My point is that resale value for almost all cars suck after they are a few years old. But at least for sports cars, they can bottom out as someone almost always wants them -- unlike a Camry or a Corolla which just go down and down until they hit the junkyard

Given that you are buying a new car, resale value down the road is just one of many things to consider and depreciation is one of the prices you pay for the piece of mind you get with a new car, or the satisfaction of the desire to "have it now"

Oh, and I wouldn't quite call the people who wait two years just to save a few bucks by buying it used "winners"

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2010 Platinum Graphite 370z Roadster:Touring/Sport
2013 Subaru BRZ Limited

Shamu

However only morons were buying 2006 corvettes at MSRP. Most could be had for thousands below Invoice as gas prices were skyrocketing! I was looking at new 2008 Vettes back in 2008 for $38k not $45k Just try going under invoice with buzzy little BRZ right now.

Well history has pretty much proven cars with some level of pent up demand are not good investments. People pay at or over MSRP and frankly this car is underwhelming when you take off the delusional colored glasses. Lol! The hype will wear off when pent up demand is met. I predict that to be about two years. That's hardly a wait at all and it's going to mean thousands in savings. Heck it will pay for a blower kit and some real wheels and tires!

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Grant

Nikkolai

Wow, that car is tiny! Why even have backseats, I don't even think midgets can fit back there.

Shamu

Yeah it's a small man ps or woman's car. No over 6 foot dudes and their freinds would be happy.

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Grant

Spikuh

The same can be said for many vehicles. G37 and GTR come to mind pretty quickly.

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Zaggeron

lol. No mass produced car produced in this century is an "investment" -- not unless you are willing to hold onto it for years and years.

I look at it this way. I want a new DD. I'm sick of 4 doors and FWD. I don't need another high-powered car like my Z -- which is my "weekend" car that I plan to keep for a while. What are my choices in the under 30K range.

To put it another way -- what are my choices in a brand new small RWD coupe under 30K

1. Mustang -- too big and too heavy
2. Genesis -- don't like the styling and it's too heavy
3. MX-5 -- I'd buy one if I didn't already have a convertible
4. ??

I don't buy used cars so a used Rx-8 is out -- though I would have bought one if they could stand he Texas heat and got a bit better mileage.

Not much else out there is there ...

Yes, if I didn't have my Z I wouldn't pick the BRZ over the Z, but given I already have a Z, what choices do I have in the class of car I want?

I like the look of the BRZ -- it's got the features I want -- leather, Nav, etc.
It's in my price range. If when mine comes in and I like how it drives and the dealer doesn't try and ream me, I'll buy it. I really couldn't give a crap if people think it's overpriced.

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2010 Platinum Graphite 370z Roadster:Touring/Sport
2013 Subaru BRZ Limited

Shamu

I disagree I have typically bought production cars and broke even after driving them for 2 years. It takes some skill but I have done it multiple times. I bought Mazdaspeed 6 gt for 23k and two years later sold it for $22k and bought a new Chevy crewCab truck for $19k and sold it for 17k two years later. Your not going to get close to that with BRZ unfortunately so you lose a big piece of your intial investment.

You have more choices than you think! Go make a deal on a BMW 135 or even 128 coupe. Way more car for the money!

I just don't think making car rear wheel drive is worth $10 k premium over cars using similar motor etc. the power of marketing is a wonderful thing! Makes people like me a ltttle richer separating those who can rationalize this purchase with their hard earned cash!

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Grant

Zaggeron

I meant you'd never make your money back on a new car. Your example of losing only 2k on a new truck after 2 years is an exception not an ordinary case. Most of the time you lose that much after driving off the lot.

I can't buy used. I just think back to how I used to treat cars and I can't bring my self to trust anyone owning a car before me. I know ... not very reasonable, but what the hay.

I was actually looking at 135/128 first, but buying one new with the features I want is much more expensive than the BRZ -- and you don't get that much more with the 128 and the 135 is about 6k more.

The thing I really want is small and light. I remember my old '74 fiat spider I had in the early 90s. 1.8 liter, not very fast, but light and nimble and fun to toss around. For my everyday driver I don't want a powerful car. I just want a fun light car that has RWD dynamics. Keep tossing out options cause I'm open to any new car that fits my bill. Like I said, I have a certain style of car in mind and I'm willing to pay extra for it (up to a point), but I'm not seeing much in that class.

That's part of the reason I want the BRZ/FRS to be successful. I want these sorts of cars to be more available and the only way that will happen is if people buy them. So if I have to pay a bit more than I normally would for the same level of car, I just chalk that up to taking one for the enthusiast team. You're welcome

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2010 Platinum Graphite 370z Roadster:Touring/Sport
2013 Subaru BRZ Limited